firestormx Posted October 8, 2012 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,113 Content Per Day: 0.26 Reputation: 442 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/06/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/17/1975 Share Posted October 8, 2012 The word of God states very clearly and very bluntly that we are NOT to lean to our own understanding, Proverbs 3:5. So why is it, that's exactly what so many of us do? Even up here on worthy, Isn't that what we all do here, each discussing our opinion, our understanding, and in some cases getting upset when someone don't agree with it. As I read and study the word, I see more and more that Old and New testament saints alike, just like jesus spoke and did only what they got directly from God. When they did things or spoke things on there own is normally when sin happened. If the word of God, or maybe just prophecy is not up for private interputation, and we are not to lean on our own understanding then much if not most of believers are in serious error. What has God led each of you too, in regards to Lean not to your own understanding? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevenseas Posted October 8, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 30 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,373 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 683 Days Won: 22 Joined: 02/28/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted October 8, 2012 God's Word is to feed our understanding in order that our thoughts be ordered according to His Word The Bible states: Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is--his good, pleasing and perfect will. Romans 12:2 and there are many passages that define how we approach the Word of God. I can only answer for myself: when I base my response on the Bible, I do as above...when I voice an opinion I state it as an opinion Even Paul was clear when he was simply stating his opinion. Those of use who have been in the Word a long time tend to base our opinions on what we have learned from scripture (I know I do) I disagree that most believers are in serious error. That, would make our Lord far less a shepherd than I believe Him to be I think sometimes we tend to forget that it is indeed God Who is orchestrating events here and has those who are His in the palm of His hand. God's keeping power is far greater than our tendency to stray You know, the prophet declared he was the only one left who followed God and God told him there were 7000 others who hand not bent the knee to Baal Correct me if I am wrong, but is there something in particular in the threads you would like to address? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firestormx Posted October 8, 2012 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,113 Content Per Day: 0.26 Reputation: 442 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/06/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/17/1975 Author Share Posted October 8, 2012 No, nothing in pitcular. we've been here long enough to see most threads go in a circle. most doctrinal questions go in a circle. The same positions explained, by different people almost the same way, using the same verses. Christ is truth! he is not divided. Which I take to mean that if me and you are discussing a subject, and don't agree, then one of us is not speaking God's truth. I've made so many mistakes in my life, that I've learned it's easier to just submit to Christ daily, seeking his truth, examining myself in light of his word. I guess my point with this thread is simple, Christ didn't speak his opinion, he said he only spoke and did what he saw and heard from the father. That's exactly what the Old testament saints did. Also it's what the apostles did. They spoke only that which they recieved directly from Christ. When the ocasion arose that they were unsure about something, they come together as one, and prayed and sought the Lord until they knew they had gotten the answer from Christ himself ( the issue of gentile curcumcission is what I'm refering to). I make a lot of mistakes, but it just seems that everytime I turn on a gospel program, or listen to another believer speak, or read a post here, that What I'm hearing is coming from that persons understanding. The men and women of the bible didn't do that but instead relied upon the Holy Spirit and God the Father and Christ completely for there understanding. I don't know if I've been clear...I hope so. I'm just curious what God has revealed to others about not leaning to our own understanding. I strongly believe if we are both in touch with the same truth, the same Christ, and he is the source of all of our understanding,then our opinions and understandings should be the same,but that's not the case, so then why the different opinions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zemke Posted October 8, 2012 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,028 Content Per Day: 0.23 Reputation: 451 Days Won: 1 Joined: 01/24/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted October 8, 2012 Biblical doctrine, if correct, is consistent through the Word. The Bereans were more noble because they excepted the word with readiness of mind but they searched the scriptures to see if it were so. Their scriptures where the Old Testament. One of the reasons I like typology is because is illuminates doctrine, substantiates it in a sense. The same themes being played out over and over. Typology should not be used to make doctrine but to further understand it, illuminate it. When we start to see the themes in Joshua about Jericho showing up in Revelation, when we see each prophet in some way being a type of the messiah the Old Testament starts opening up to us as it would have in the early church. Leviticus being fulfilled in part by the Messiah Jesus opens up our understanding of Hebrews and Hebrews helping us understand Leviticus. Jesus gave a bible study to the men on the road after His resurrection and it was about everything the Messiah had to suffer from Moses on through the prophets. Now that would have been some bible teaching. A topical study, what does the whole council say on the matter? This is one reason why a young believer should never be lifted up quickly into leadership. How many true elders can any of you honestly say you have known? Not met or assume to be an elder because the church title is on them but really know them to be tested. Truly knowing not just the word but "The Word." The whole of the scriptures is tied together, Jesus Christ and Him crucified, risen and coming again. These are the truths that Christianity is predicated upon and which the whole of scriptures speak. This is were I am in not leaning on my own understanding. If understanding is beyond me I don't sweat it, all in prayer and time. The deeper things of scripture are right on the page but so often the things on the page are so very deep. He loves us to ask, dig and pray. We have all grown up with some theological bend and I believe this leads to diverse opinions. I was raised reform, saved through a cult, rejected charimania and back slid for a time and then was discipled in a despensational church, started looking into midrash, discipled in another bible teaching church and am now in the wilderness. Minimal fellowship but growing in fellowship and realizing the depths of my depravity. I believe firestorm what your looking at is a lack of true elders to disciple. Even if Paul would show up preaching someone would have an argument against him. Mostly because I believe he would rebuke many with simple biblical teaching. The Word of God flows together, it solves itself. We try to understand it on the methods we have been taught, and many times they will only get us so far. We need to see the word through the eyes of the apostles, not western gramatical linear aproaches. It's why I have a problem with men like Bill Hybills, Rick Warren and big western church movements these days. They find something that works and they go with it as long as they talk about Jesus. Psycho marketing hype. We are getting farther away from the word instead of deeper into it. I pray for a buddy to search the scriptures with, I've had a few over the years but I'm on bit of a dry plain. As I've said I'm between watering holes these days in the wilderness. But God is always with us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firestormx Posted October 8, 2012 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,113 Content Per Day: 0.26 Reputation: 442 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/06/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/17/1975 Author Share Posted October 8, 2012 I believe firestorm what your looking at is a lack of true elders to disciple. First, I will pray for you, that Christ will met all your need, including someone to search the scriptures with, and to fellowship with. I really enjoyed reading your response. You have given me much to pray and seek God about. Thank you and May God bless you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevenseas Posted October 8, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 30 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,373 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 683 Days Won: 22 Joined: 02/28/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted October 8, 2012 No, nothing in pitcular. we've been here long enough to see most threads go in a circle. most doctrinal questions go in a circle. The same positions explained, by different people almost the same way, using the same verses. Christ is truth! he is not divided. Which I take to mean that if me and you are discussing a subject, and don't agree, then one of us is not speaking God's truth. I've made so many mistakes in my life, that I've learned it's easier to just submit to Christ daily, seeking his truth, examining myself in light of his word. OK...I asked because there was a similar line of reasoning in another recent thread and actually I've read this line of reasoning before elsewhere (not from you) That is right...Christ is not divided...but please...how can we all be saying the same thing at the same time when we are not all at the same place in our walk with Christ let alone understanding? Shall someone who was just saved yesterday have the same knowledge of the Bible as I do? It is a growth process...not instant I guess my point with this thread is simple, Christ didn't speak his opinion, he said he only spoke and did what he saw and heard from the father. That's exactly what the Old testament saints did. Also it's what the apostles did. They spoke only that which they recieved directly from Christ. When the ocasion arose that they were unsure about something, they come together as one, and prayed and sought the Lord until they knew they had gotten the answer from Christ himself ( the issue of gentile curcumcission is what I'm refering to). Christ was/is God incarnate...He never sinned. We, are still in the flesh. We sin, we disagree ... no one can claim to walk as did Christ. He is our example and our Lord. If anyone claims to be perfect and in the spirit all the time, then they disagree with scripture. It is just not possible...the one person who may have come the closest was translated out of here and walked the earth no more. THAT, was ONE specific occasion Uh huh...but the Gentile issue of circumcision was not addressed by one person only, the Holy Spirit revealed this truth to more than one person That, is how the Body functions. This is not OT prophecy here...the believer has the Holy Spirit indwelling them...they do not have to wait for the prophet to speak and even when the prophet would speak, there MUST be agreement among those functioning in that gift. Which reminds me, there was a recent thread on prophecy that went nowhere IMO. I actually did try to objectively study it, but I was politely ignored. So what shall I say? Everyone but me is a liar? Well, LOL, of course not! I have come to the place I am in because of personal crisis and God's intervention so my place is to be patient and kind and hopefully loving I am actually impatient, sarcastic and I love my dogs. Without Christ, that is me. Make sense? I make a lot of mistakes, but it just seems that everytime I turn on a gospel program, or listen to another believer speak, or read a post here, that What I'm hearing is coming from that persons understanding. The men and women of the bible didn't do that but instead relied upon the Holy Spirit and God the Father and Christ completely for there understanding. Hmmm...well I can agree that happens sometimes...but certainly not all the time! Listen, most of the NT was written for instruction and correcting doctrinal error. Those folks back then were just like us today. Really. Even Peter was told 'Get behind me satan" by Jesus and that same Peter denied Jesus and that same Peter was reproved by Paul who himself used to pursue and put to death Christians and was, in fact, a witness at the stoning of Stephen. We are all only saved by grace. And kept the same way. I don't know if I've been clear...I hope so. I'm just curious what God has revealed to others about not leaning to our own understanding. I strongly believe if we are both in touch with the same truth, the same Christ, and he is the source of all of our understanding,then our opinions and understandings should be the same,but that's not the case, so then why the different opinions? I 'hear' you. I've felt that way in yrs gone by.....also remember that our relationship with Jesus is personal as are the gifts the Holy Spirit gives Others should get back to you on the how they interpret not leaning on our own understanding...I haven't really addressed that much...but have answered your concerns and wanted to clarify what you were getting at So thanks, and will check in later or tomorrow Patience! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevenseas Posted October 8, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 30 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,373 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 683 Days Won: 22 Joined: 02/28/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted October 8, 2012 On another note, even though this is not my op, I would hope the negativity could be kept down some? Rick Warren? Most of us won't be getting personal with him anyway... Even if Paul would show up preaching someone would have an argument against him Well of course they would! The did 2000 years ago too! Remember that Paul persecuted Christians before he corrected their teaching Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firestormx Posted October 8, 2012 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,113 Content Per Day: 0.26 Reputation: 442 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/06/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/17/1975 Author Share Posted October 8, 2012 Others should get back to you on the how they interpret not leaning on our own understanding...I haven't really addressed that much...but have answered your concerns and wanted to clarify what you were getting at Patience! Thank you for your concern and taking the time to post. may God bless you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldenEagle Posted October 8, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 764 Topics Per Day: 0.18 Content Count: 7,626 Content Per Day: 1.81 Reputation: 1,559 Days Won: 44 Joined: 10/03/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted October 8, 2012 The word of God states very clearly and very bluntly that we are NOT to lean to our own understanding, Proverbs 3:5. So why is it, that's exactly what so many of us do? Even up here on worthy, Isn't that what we all do here, each discussing our opinion, our understanding, and in some cases getting upset when someone don't agree with it. As I read and study the word, I see more and more that Old and New testament saints alike, just like jesus spoke and did only what they got directly from God. When they did things or spoke things on there own is normally when sin happened. If the word of God, or maybe just prophecy is not up for private interputation, and we are not to lean on our own understanding then much if not most of believers are in serious error. What has God led each of you too, in regards to Lean not to your own understanding? When my views and the Bible conflict I adjust my views to what God’s Word says. This can be hard sometimes because I don’t always like what I read. I also don’t always feel like obeying what His Word says. But Praise God He is greater than my feelings or shortcomings. Everything that is true or good is from God. I’m still a man and while forgiven still struggle with sin. I still struggle with pride thinking I know better than Him. Thankfully God is merciful and he puts up with me. God loves me where I am at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firestormx Posted October 8, 2012 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,113 Content Per Day: 0.26 Reputation: 442 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/06/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/17/1975 Author Share Posted October 8, 2012 Everything that is true or good is from God. I’m still a man and while forgiven still struggle with sin. I still struggle with pride thinking I know better than Him. Thankfully God is merciful and he puts up with me. God loves me where I am at. I have that same trouble sometimes. Thanks for the post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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