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The Role of Parent’s Authority in relation to a Christian?


GoldenEagle

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I have 3 questions:

I. What is the role of Parent’s Authority in relation to a Christian?

II. To under-age children?

III. To adult children?

Here's are two characteristics of spiritual abuse. Typically, an abusive religious system will have the following characteristics:

1. Undue Loyalty to Leaders - The leadership is held to be anointed by God and followers taught they should submit in anything it requires. This authority supposedly comes from the position they occupy. In Matthew 23:1-2 Jesus said the Scribes and Pharisees "sit in Moses' seat," a position of spiritual authority. Many names are used but in the abusive system this is a position of power, not moral authority. The assumption is that God operates among His people through a hierarchy, or "chain of command." In this abusive system unconditional submission is often called a "covering," or "umbrella of protection" which will provide some spiritual blessing to those who fully submit.

Followers may be told that God will bless their submission even if the leadership is wrong. It is not their place to judge or correct the leadership - God will see to that.

2. Authoritarian - The system is characterized by rules and a power structure that is unaccountable to those who follow. Questioning anything is considered a challenge to authority. Thinking for oneself is suppressed by pointing out that it leads to doubts. This is portrayed as unbelief in God and His anointed leaders. Thus the follower controls his own thoughts by fear of doubting God.

An authoritarian leader will seek to be unaccountable for his actions, or inactions, this side of heaven.

The following is what I am concerned about…

A son is under the authority of his father until the father is dead. For this cause, Jesus was never nor will ever be in a position to act independently of his Fathers will. Children of any age must always be obedient unto the authority placed over them, whether it be mother, father or church officials such as an overseer of a flock. This obedience is and must always be 'in the Lord' as one has no authority to ask another to do something that is contrary to God or his ways.

Thoughts?

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A Thought

But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God. 1 Corinthians 11:3

Or Two

I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office:

So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another. Romans 12:1-5

Hum....

But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.

And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ. Matthew 23:8-10

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From other thread....

We both agree on II-IV. I really like the concept of Sola Scriptura. Excellent. It is helpful to understand what one agrees upon in order to find common ground.

This really reminds me of Psalm 133:1…

Behold, how good and how pleasant it is
 for brethren to dwell together in unity!

Continuing with bite sizes…



I. Interesting question. Both Christ and his bride are subject unto the Father. A man and his wife are both subject unto his father. All are subject unto God the Father. There is not conflict here. There is a simple chain of authority that must be followed that always ends with God.


Interesting perspective. Where is the Biblical evidence for the sentence in bold brother?

You forgot to 'bold' the sentence you wanted biblical evidence for or I missed the bolding ;)

In relation to this question how do you interpret Gen 2:24 then? Men are clearly instructed to leave father and mother, be joined to their wives, and become one flesh. How does the idea of being one flesh go back to including parental authority?

Genesis 2:24

Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.

One would equally ask the opposite question as to how does leaving ones mother and father to be joined unto a wife negate the natural authority God gave parents over their children? Where is this supported biblically? To be concise, I am declaring that if what your interpreting the text to mean is the true way of understanding it then we ought to see examples of it from day one moving forward but we do not. We see Noah acting as ruling authority over his sons and their wives after the flood up to and including judgment upon the children of Ham for that which he had done unto his father. The authority he had to judge his children and their children including those who had never been born is seen in the curse/judgment given coming to pass by the power of God. Consider carefully what Paul says:

1Cr 4:19 But I will come to you shortly, if the Lord will, and will know, not the speech of them which are puffed up, but the power.

This coming from a man who spoke to another declaring that he would become blind and did. He knows what true biblical authority is and how it works. If you have authority and are in the right then God is the power behind your words. Biblical authority is an amazing thing. Consider that there is one who I personally believe to be alive and in power now who will soon begin to call down fire from heaven in the sight of men.

This is why I pointed you to the text in Hosea to show you that there is a point where God will not enforce a persons authority over those he gave it to when their own obedience is not being fulfilled. These are hard sayings. Difficult to understand. I do speak from experience. I have used my authority over my children to prophesy what would happen to them if they did not obey my voice and God has made my prophecy come to pass causing my children to fear my voice. It is not a power to be abused and one that will help a person under authority to respect the authority given them by God. In the near future this will be important to understand because we will need to know when God will stand behind the authority in question or not. Daniel understood this and was kept alive even though the authority over him had him thrown in the lions den.

On a side note but having to do with this first point I have 2 questions that I’m very curious about…

A. Do you plan on giving a dowry to the men your daughters marry?

Men don't give dowry to the ones marrying their daughters but receive them from them.

Christ will have returned before my daughters are ready to marry. If he had not, I only expect one of my daughters to grow up and be obedient unto me as the other who is only my step daughter has no respect for me. She would never ask my blessing upon her marriage choice anyway. Whether or not I would consider asking a dowry for her hand in marriage is a good question. I think I may consider such a thing for a man who doesn't believe my daughter to be worth anything but a free ride isn't worthy of my daughter.

B. Do you plan on controlling where your sons (and therefore their families) live, work, what they buy, who they marry, etc.? This is especially of interest to me as I begin to teach my little guy.

I plan on giving instruction to my children until I die or Christ returns. I will either apply my blessing unto their requests or with hold my blessing from them depending upon what I believe is best for them and their families according to all that I understand about God and his ways. My children are able to walk away and not listen to me and choose to go their own way but not with my blessing. They will have to do so without obeying my voice and therefore live with the consequences of their decisions. Consider the following:

Jhn 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.

Jhn 15:20 Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.

What I am stating here is that a father or mother who is a friend of Jesus is instructing their children in a godly manner, even when it is a declaration concerning where they should live, work, etc. Every child must understand where to draw the line though. When to declare unto the authority placed above them that they ought to obey God rather than men. Here is where the gray area comes in. In our understanding of who God is. We will know how well we did when we stand before him in judgment and give an account as to why we chose to obey or disobey those who had God given authority over us.

V. I believe Romans 1:30 (in context talking about unsaved people) should be viewed in the light of Ephesians 6:1-4, Ephesians 5:22-33, Romans 8:17, and 1 Cor. 2:16. Therefore Romans 1:30 refers to unsaved children who do not obey the Biblical principles and commands/advice set forth by their parents but more importantly by God himself. And even then Christians do not have a reprobate mind as we have the mind of Christ. (1 Cor. 2:16) Do you agree or disagree?

Disagree. Though it is in context speaking directly about the unsaved, the principles still apply. Those who do such things are worthy of death. Ask Ananias and Saphira. Ask the fornicator in Corinth. Ask those who were sickly or those who had fallen asleep in Corinth if the principles applied to them.

VI. I believe Matt 18:25 should be viewed in light of Romans 8:17. I don’t dispute a man should be the spiritual head of his home. However, Christian men are not superior to Christian women. Christian Father’s are not superior to Christian sons OR Christian daughters. In fact Christian Husbands are NOT superior to Christian Wives in God’s eyes. Different roles yes. Same value. We are all free from sin and in Christ. (Gal. 5:1 & Romans 8:2) Do you agree or disagree?

Disagree. Superiority is defined by authority. Those who are superior ought to use that power to serve those with whom they rule over. It ought not be mistaken as 'better than' which is the tone many seem to take. Just because God gives me authority over you (not saying he has) doesn't mean that I am any better than you but simply chosen by God to bear rule over you. God values everyone the same but gives out authority for the purpose of governing. He is not a respecter of persons though, it doesn't matter to him whether or not he made you king, he will still deal with you the same as any other come judgment day. We all need Christ but in this life there must be order kept. That order is not restricted to property lines.

Gary

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Thanks for coming over to this thread.

From other thread....

We both agree on II-IV. I really like the concept of Sola Scriptura. Excellent. It is helpful to understand what one agrees upon in order to find common ground.

This really reminds me of Psalm 133:1…

Behold, how good and how pleasant it is
 for brethren to dwell together in unity!

Continuing with bite sizes…



I. Interesting question. Both Christ and his bride are subject unto the Father. A man and his wife are both subject unto his father. All are subject unto God the Father. There is not conflict here. There is a simple chain of authority that must be followed that always ends with God.


Interesting perspective. Where is the Biblical evidence for the sentence in bold brother?

You forgot to 'bold' the sentence you wanted biblical evidence for or I missed the bolding ;)

Sorry, I'm trying not to use Bold as much. ;) Oversight in this case.

In any case there it is.

Another question:

C. Do you still do everything with the "blessing" of your biological father (or step-father as the case may be)?

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Thanks for coming over to this thread.

From other thread....

We both agree on II-IV. I really like the concept of Sola Scriptura. Excellent. It is helpful to understand what one agrees upon in order to find common ground.

This really reminds me of Psalm 133:1…

Behold, how good and how pleasant it is
 for brethren to dwell together in unity!

Continuing with bite sizes…



I. Interesting question. Both Christ and his bride are subject unto the Father. A man and his wife are both subject unto his father. All are subject unto God the Father. There is not conflict here. There is a simple chain of authority that must be followed that always ends with God.


Interesting perspective. Where is the Biblical evidence for the sentence in bold brother?

You forgot to 'bold' the sentence you wanted biblical evidence for or I missed the bolding ;)

Sorry, I'm trying not to use Bold as much. ;) Oversight in this case.

In any case there it is.

Another question:

C. Do you still do everything with the "blessing" of your biological father (or step-father as the case may be)?

I have no living male relatives in my line above me.

Gary

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Okay how about we take this in bite sizes. How about just the first 4 questions/comments.

I. Once again I ask how would you respond Biblically to Sevenseas question? Her comment refers to: Eph. 5:22-33. “The marriage union is a picture of the church and Christ...how in any way, shape or form can that be subjugated to one's father?” Do you agree or disagree?

II. We are to honor our parents. We are to obey them in the Lord. However, parents are to deal kindly with their children and are not to provoke their children to wrath. (Eph 6: 1-4) Do you agree or disagree?

III. Further, when parents are wrong Biblically we are not to obey them. (Acts 5:29) Do you agree or disagree?

IV. I believe Scripture is to be evaluated with Scripture for correct interpretation. (2 Tim. 3:16) Do you agree or disagree?


I have no living male relatives in my line above me. 



Gary


I’m very sorry to hear that Gary. :( But God is our Father. ;)

Next a couple of baby steps...

VII. We are FREE in Christ from the bondage of the law. See Galatians 5:1 below. So Matt. 18:25 does not apply to the Christians today. Do you agree or disagree?

Galatians 5:1

“Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage.”

VIII. In the light of Ephesians 6:1-4, Ephesians 5:22-33, Romans 8:17, and 1 Cor. 2:16 I disagree with your interpretation of 2 Timothy 3:2 as well. It is the same errant thinking. Do you agree or disagree?

Have you already begun formulating some questions for me? Just curious.

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Children obey your parents in the Lord for this is right Eph 6:1

Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined (cleave) to his wife, and they shall become one flesh Gen. 2:24

Honor your father and your mother, so that you may live long in the land the Lord your God is giving you Ex 20:12

The word 'leave' (G 2:24) indicates a separation or a quitting of the first family unit, the family in which a child is born

There are 2 relationships described here: parent/child and husband/wife. The only PERMANENT one is the husband/wife

relationship. The husband does not leave his wife and the wife does not leave her husband (speaking in absolutes)

What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate. Mark 10:9 This, refers ONLY to the marriage. It does not refer

to the parent/child relationship. Gen 2:24 says a man will LEAVE the first family and CLEAVE to his wife. He does NOT and

there is NO command for the man to CLEAVE to his father.

MAJOR problems occur when the parent/child relationship is treated as the primary one when the primary relationship is husband/wife

The word 'cleave', translated from the Hebrew, means to pursue someone 'hard' and to be stuck or glued to someone. Therefore, it

can be said that a man pursues after his wife and should be stuck to her like glue. The cleaving indicates that no other relationship should

come between. This, is the closest relationship on this earth...so much so in fact, that it is described like this:

For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.

This is a profound mystery—but I am talking about Christ and the church.

Is there some third party in the mystery regarding Christ and the church? How can marriage illustrate this mystery, as Paul states,

if there are actually three persons in the marriage, dad, son and wife? And why state that when dad dies the son is free? How would

that line up with Christ and the church? Who's going to die there? Christ already died and there are only two parties in the mystery

The scriptural admonitions to honor our parents means simply to treat them with a respectful attitude, obeying Godly instruction (which actually

the husband does with his own children, simply continuing as the Bible instructs) and finally, possibly looking out for them or caring for them

when they are older Mark 7: 10-12 and I Tim 5: 4-8

So where is the line drawn? Is there a line drawn? Absolutely. The line is drawn when one command overrides the other so that

one principal actually violates the other because it would be impossible to comply with both at the same time to their fullest implications

(before a marriage takes place.)

In other words, if a parent is meddling in the marriage and citing 'children obey your parents', that parent is going beyond their authority

and coming BETWEEN the married parties wherein the man is commanded to CLEAVE to his wife, again, meaning that NOTHING

comes between them...not daddy, not mommy, not the children, not the neighbor

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addendum: one in authority has both the ability to curse and to bless. Speaking words over someone when that person is under your

authority is NOT an indication that God is backing you in what you have said

I find this to be absolutely scary in its implications and actually removes the hand of God IMO in that a person sees themselves speaking

the words of God, without perhaps, consulting Him before hand

The Bible is very instructive with regards to the ability to bless or curse and if I were to say d--- you to someone, I believe the Bible indicates that I

am cursing them...I can also say God bless you

Thousands of children have borne the curses of their father. God does not intervene when we step OVER our own

authority. Honestly, there are some quite errant interpretations being presented here IMO

I believe Scripture is to be evaluated with Scripture for correct interpretation. (2 Tim. 3:16)

yes and there have been some very errant doctrines developed with a disregard for that fact

Jesus taught plainly in regard to the proper role of leadership, speaking against those that “lord” over others. He even taught that He did not come to be served, but to serve others. In Mark 10:42-45, Jesus said, “You know that those who are considered rulers over the Gentiles lord it over them, and their great ones exercise authority over them. Yet it shall not be so among you...For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve...”

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Okay how about we take this in bite sizes. How about just the first 4 questions/comments.

I. Once again I ask how would you respond Biblically to Sevenseas question? Her comment refers to: Eph. 5:22-33. “The marriage union is a picture of the church and Christ...how in any way, shape or form can that be subjugated to one's father?” Do you agree or disagree?

II. We are to honor our parents. We are to obey them in the Lord. However, parents are to deal kindly with their children and are not to provoke their children to wrath. (Eph 6: 1-4) Do you agree or disagree?

III. Further, when parents are wrong Biblically we are not to obey them. (Acts 5:29) Do you agree or disagree?

IV. I believe Scripture is to be evaluated with Scripture for correct interpretation. (2 Tim. 3:16) Do you agree or disagree?

I answered these here, including addressing sevenseas question. Although I follow her logic in what she has posted here as well as there, I believe she is in error by not understanding what is being shown through the illustrated mystery by Paul concerning the picture of Christ and the Church as opposed to a husband and wife. The mystery explained shows the fact that as a husband becomes one flesh with his wife so does Christ the Church when he enters inside the temple sharing the space with his beloved and becomes one spirit with her. Both he and she are still subject unto the Father. It has nothing to do with authority being removed in the equation. Sevenseas and I will just have to agree to disagree on the issue until God will give one of us the increase through the seeds planted and watered. Lord willing in his time he will.

Next a couple of baby steps...

VII. We are FREE in Christ from the bondage of the law. See Galatians 5:1 below. So Matt. 18:25 does not apply to the Christians today. Do you agree or disagree?

Galatians 5:1

“Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage.”

Agree that we are not in bondage to the law as per Gal 5 but that has nothing to do with who belongs to whom. The issue of ownership is not something that came into being by declaration of the law just as salvation by faith was not of the law. Ownership of who belongs to who is from the beginning.

We actually were freed from sin to be in bondage to Christ. We were never made free from all, we just changed masters. We are still merely servants.

VIII. In the light of Ephesians 6:1-4, Ephesians 5:22-33, Romans 8:17, and 1 Cor. 2:16 I disagree with your interpretation of 2 Timothy 3:2 as well. It is the same errant thinking. Do you agree or disagree?

No new light shed here. 2 Timothy is declaring the condition of the church in our day. Of course the church is going to be full of people who disagree that it applies! It is talking about us. I would expect most people to believe that it is not referring to adult children so that the scripture can actually be fulfilled in them. We are to turn away from those who do not obey their parents but continue going their own way, only considering their parents as having an opinion and not power over us. From such turn away. Paul's list is a list of church going believers that we are not to be hanging out with but separating ourselves from. Those who spend all their time watching TV and doting about sports etc. You don't want to be standing next to someone when God sends judgment. How do you think God is going to handle those from 2 Timothy?

Have you already begun formulating some questions for me? Just curious.

Have you ever considered the damage done by the youth who believe that their parents are obsolete after they move out of the nest? These same ones who are always tired of doing things the same old way and desire change? What do those old ancients know anyway as they didn't even have indoor plumbing when they were kids?

There is a reason that we began with Moses and the children of Israel and ended up with the group that crucified Christ. There is a reason we began with Christ and the twelve Apostles and ended up with and apostate church in ruin. Change. Kids who thought they knew better than the old generation.

  • Deu 12:8 Ye shall not do after all [the things] that we do here this day, every man whatsoever [is] right in his own eyes.
  • Jdg 17:6 In those days [there was] no king in Israel, [but] every man did [that which was] right in his own eyes.
  • Jdg 21:25 In those days [there was] no king in Israel: every man did [that which was] right in his own eyes.
  • Pro 12:15 The way of a fool [is] right in his own eyes: but he that hearkeneth unto counsel [is] wise.
  • Pro 21:2 Every way of a man [is] right in his own eyes: but the LORD pondereth the hearts.

Obedience is always and has always been the issue. I am not surprised when someone questions just who they must be obedient unto as in truth nobody truly wants to obey anyone else because we are all 'like' God and have the eyes of our understanding opened. Personally I just want mine shut but the only choice today is to have them enlightened that we might agree with God instead. America began as a country where people were free to worship God freely and morphed into a country where you are free from God to worship any god you please. The serpent is subtle.

Gary

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Children obey your parents in the Lord for this is right Eph 6:1

Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined (cleave) to his wife, and they shall become one flesh Gen. 2:24

Honor your father and your mother, so that you may live long in the land the Lord your God is giving you Ex 20:12

The word 'leave' (G 2:24) indicates a separation or a quitting of the first family unit, the family in which a child is born

There are 2 relationships described here: parent/child and husband/wife. The only PERMANENT one is the husband/wife

relationship. The husband does not leave his wife and the wife does not leave her husband (speaking in absolutes)

What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate. Mark 10:9 This, refers ONLY to the marriage. It does not refer

to the parent/child relationship. Gen 2:24 says a man will LEAVE the first family and CLEAVE to his wife. He does NOT and

there is NO command for the man to CLEAVE to his father.

MAJOR problems occur when the parent/child relationship is treated as the primary one when the primary relationship is husband/wife

The word 'cleave', translated from the Hebrew, means to pursue someone 'hard' and to be stuck or glued to someone. Therefore, it

can be said that a man pursues after his wife and should be stuck to her like glue. The cleaving indicates that no other relationship should

come between. This, is the closest relationship on this earth...so much so in fact, that it is described like this:

For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.

This is a profound mystery—but I am talking about Christ and the church.

Is there some third party in the mystery regarding Christ and the church? How can marriage illustrate this mystery, as Paul states,

if there are actually three persons in the marriage, dad, son and wife? And why state that when dad dies the son is free? How would

that line up with Christ and the church? Who's going to die there? Christ already died and there are only two parties in the mystery

The scriptural admonitions to honor our parents means simply to treat them with a respectful attitude, obeying Godly instruction (which actually

the husband does with his own children, simply continuing as the Bible instructs) and finally, possibly looking out for them or caring for them

when they are older Mark 7: 10-12 and I Tim 5: 4-8

So where is the line drawn? Is there a line drawn? Absolutely. The line is drawn when one command overrides the other so that

one principal actually violates the other because it would be impossible to comply with both at the same time to their fullest implications

(before a marriage takes place.)

In other words, if a parent is meddling in the marriage and citing 'children obey your parents', that parent is going beyond their authority

and coming BETWEEN the married parties wherein the man is commanded to CLEAVE to his wife, again, meaning that NOTHING

comes between them...not daddy, not mommy, not the children, not the neighbor

I agree with the entire above post wholeheartedly.

addendum: one in authority has both the ability to curse and to bless. Speaking words over someone when that person is under your

authority is NOT an indication that God is backing you in what you have said

I find this to be absolutely scary in its implications and actually removes the hand of God IMO in that a person sees themselves speaking

the words of God, without perhaps, consulting Him before hand

The Bible is very instructive with regards to the ability to bless or curse and if I were to say d--- you to someone, I believe the Bible indicates that I

am cursing them...I can also say God bless you

Thousands of children have borne the curses of their father. God does not intervene when we step OVER our own

authority. Honestly, there are some quite errant interpretations being presented here IMO

I believe Scripture is to be evaluated with Scripture for correct interpretation. (2 Tim. 3:16)

yes and there have been some very errant doctrines developed with a disregard for that fact

Jesus taught plainly in regard to the proper role of leadership, speaking against those that “lord” over others. He even taught that He did not come to be served, but to serve others. In Mark 10:42-45, Jesus said, “You know that those who are considered rulers over the Gentiles lord it over them, and their great ones exercise authority over them. Yet it shall not be so among you...For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve...”

I agree people in authority have the ability to bless or curse. I agree with this post as well.

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