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“If you are a Christian you do not have to believe that all the other religions are simply wrong all through. If you are an atheist you do have to believe that the main point in all the religions of the whole world is simply one huge mistake.” ― C.S Lewis

But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. Hebrews 11:6 ― God

~

Framed the proper way the very existence of Hell becomes an argument against justice.

This is why I love the Orthodox view it creates a God who is all loving. No matter whether the person is a sinner or saint.

It's quite appealing actually and seems like a better way to view God; I certainly didn't expect this from an Orthodox priest. Is this a typical position of Orthodoxy? It is quite a contrast to the Protestant fire and brimstone sermons.

“Readers are advised to remember the devil is a liar.” ― C.S Lewis

Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Genesis 3:1(a-c) ― God

“For you will certainly carry out God's purpose, however you act, but it makes a difference to you whether you serve like Judas or like John.” ― C.S Lewis

So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it. Isaiah 55:11 ― God

“The Christian does not think God will love us because we are good, but that God will make us good because He loves us.” ― C.S Lewis

Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool. Isaiah 1:18 ― God

“Prostitutes are in no danger of finding their present life so satisfactory that they cannot turn to God: the proud, the avaricious, the self-righteous, are in that danger.” ― C.S Lewis

Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, Romans 9:19-23 ― God

“True humility is not thinking less of yourself; it is thinking of yourself less.” ― C.S Lewis

Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem,

Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him. Matthew 2:1-2 ― God

~

Believe

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16

And Be Blessed Beloved

Love, Joe

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Framed the proper way the very existence of Hell becomes an argument against justice.

This is why I love the Orthodox view it creates a God who is all loving. No matter whether the person is a sinner or saint.

It's quite appealing actually and seems like a better way to view God; I certainly didn't expect this from an Orthodox priest. Is this a typical position of Orthodoxy? It is quite a contrast to the Protestant fire and brimstone sermons.

A few Protestant denominations also hold this views and there are probably many other individuals who also hold that view even if their denomination does not confirm or reject it. I also know a few Catholics that accept this view.

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I will be to sure to check out that book.

Also why is it so hard for Christians to accept the idea of eveolution? I know there are flaws in it and not everything is completely hammered out but that tends to happen in science anyways. I mean to me if you want scripture to be scince then you will have to reject one of the creations stories for it to line up.

In regards to the question of why evangelicals tend to reject evolution, I would say that it is mainly due to the idea of scriptural literalism in Genesis being taken too far. Protestants in particular seem to have a problem with accepting the idea that Genesis is allegorical and poetic in its first few chapters (something that was recognized by a majority of the church fathers). I believe that this has its roots in the rejection of the early church fathers and the growth of biblical literalism in the fundamentalist movements in the 18th and 19th centuries.

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What does it mean to sin with/without the law and then be judged with/without the law?

To sin with the law is sinning after accepting Christ Jesus! You are now a new creature in Christ! and God is working on us always to be whole one day!

To sin without the law is being on your own "lost" without Christ, and not even thinking about the things you do being sinful, Haven't realized yet how we inherited sin from Adam & Eve.

As far as going to Heaven if we haven't known of it, well God did say His word will be Preached thru all the nations!

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Yeah I know it was more rhetorical than anything else. I figure I would try and move the topic back to the topic of evolution. Yeah I have had a problem with move towards bibical literalism. It just shocks me with how influencial it is. And then you have college that teach two different views. On of mythology and allegorical and others that tell you you need to take it literally.

I think it is the false dichotomy that makes people run to literalism.

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The bible backs itself up. He, the Holy Spirit, draws us to scripture, interprets scripture for us and teaches us the truth. The problem is in our listening to all of what he says without looking through a theological glass. Without the Holy Spirit, we will never have a real understanding of the message in scripture, but just head knowledge, which is not always the point being made.

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I think it is the false dichotomy that makes people run to literalism.

Genesis 1-11 is historical narrative - always has been.

Says who?

God~!

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 2 Timothy 3:16

I Know I Know

And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: Ephesians 3:9

Troglobites Just Can't See It

In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. 2 Corinthians 4:4

~

Scientists Got It Wrong

For Increasingly It's Not Unusual For Many Of These Pagan Philosophers

To Mistake The Minus For The Plus In Their Rush To Deny God His Power And His Craftsmanship In Creation

And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so. And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good. Genesis 1:24-25

The Troglobite Devolved Into Blindness

And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth. Genesis 6:12

And Can Never Regain Sight

And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life; Genesis 3:17

Not Unlike Believers

And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Romans 1:28

Who Deny God

The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good. Psalms 14:1

His Power

Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. 2 Peter 1:20-21

You See

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. John 1:1-3

~

Believe

That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. He came unto his own, and his own received him not. John 1:9-11

And Be Blessed Beloved

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. John 1:12-14

Love, Joe

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.... through tradition of scripture....

Dear One

So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:17

Did You Always Mock God's Holy Word

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Acts 2:38

Or Do You Once Run From It

Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. Hebrews 3:12

Running From Love

But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:8

Into Hate

But he that sinneth against me wrongeth his own soul: all they that hate me love death. Proverbs 8:36

~

Believe

But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. Hebrews 11:6

And Be Blessed Beloved

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16

Love, Joe

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Assumptions will kill you every time.

Amen~!

Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.

And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.

These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. 1 John 2:22-26

Dead Men Walking

Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.

If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. John 3:11-15

Dead Men

He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all.

And what he hath seen and heard, that he testifieth; and no man receiveth his testimony.

He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that God is true.

For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.

The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. John 3:31-36

Talking

Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Genesis 3:1(a-c)

Hum....

For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father's, and of the holy angels. Luke 9:26

~

Believe

He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: John 1:10-12

And Be Blessed Beloved

Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost. 1 Corinthians 12:3

Love, Joe

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In regards to the question of why evangelicals tend to reject evolution, I would say that it is mainly due to the idea of scriptural literalism in Genesis being taken too far. Protestants in particular seem to have a problem with accepting the idea that Genesis is allegorical and poetic in its first few chapters (something that was recognized by a majority of the church fathers). I believe that this has its roots in the rejection of the early church fathers and the growth of biblical literalism in the fundamentalist movements in the 18th and 19th centuries.

I would respectfully disagree. People of all walks are realizing that the science required to support Darwinism is not there. Most of those hundreds of PhD scientists who reject much of Darwinism are not 'literalists' and some are not even theists. Darwinism is dependent on philosophy passed off as science to keep it afloat. It is the atheistic version of the creation myth that some Christians try to blend with the Genesis account - a feat that cannot be done.

You missed the point. I agree that scientific criticism does exist and I am happy to listen to it. Granted that criticism is about 1% of the entire scientific community but it is interesting to hear alternatives. I am merely saying that the rise of biblical literalism and fundamentalism contributed to a growth in the number of people who believed in a literal 6-day creation account which was previously a minority in the Christian theological community.

I think it is the false dichotomy that makes people run to literalism.

Genesis 1-11 is historical narrative - always has been.

Hmm... I would contend that a lot of early Christians would disagree with you. Augustine, Philo, Origen, Irenaeus just to name a few. The only early Christian I know to have supported literalism is St. Basil. So I don't think that the argument that it always has been a historical narrative would be valid.

The Bible interprets itself--Genesis 1-11 is historical narrative. Do you disagree and if you do - why?

The bible is by definition a collection of writings. Humans interpret it using the Holy Spirit. The bible by itself (and by that I mean the words on the page not the Word) cannot interpret itself. Only by using the Holy Spirit can we interpret the Bible and learn from the Word.

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