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Three Days and Three Nights

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Whenever the three days and three nights of Matthew 12:40 is brought up in a "discussion" with 6th day crucifixion folks,

they frequently argue that it is a Jewish idiom for counting any part of a day as a whole day.

I wonder if anyone has documentation that shows that the phrase "x" days and "x"nights was ever used in the first century or before when it absolutely didn’t include at least parts of the "x" days and at least parts of the "x" nights?

Greetings

They frequently argue that it is a Jewish idiom for counting any part of a day as a whole day.

Do you have an example; the reference offered is kind of vague

How many parts of a day are there?

LG

Edited by LoyalGypsy
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LoyalGypsy,

re: "Do you have an example..."

Not sure what kind of an example you are asking for?

 

re: "How many parts of a day are there?"

I guess as many as you want.

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Mcgyver,

re: "Might want to check post #19...I hopefully answered your question."

I'm afraid I don't see where your post #19 provides writing from the first century or before that shows a period of time that is said to consist of a specific number of days as well as a specific number of nights where the period of time absolutely doesn't/can't include at least a part of each one of the specific number of days and at least a part of each one of the specific number of nights.

Sorry I missed this...but the purpose was to show that no such prohibition existed (at least to my knowledge). :)

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Mcgyver,

re: "...the purpose was to show that no such prohibition existed..."

Then there should be some actual use of the "idiom" that absolutely demonstrates that position.

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Whenever the three days and three nights of Matthew 12:40 is brought up in a "discussion" with 6th day crucifixion folks, they frequently argue that it is a Jewish idiom for counting any part of a day as a whole day. I wonder if anyone has documentation that shows that the phrase "x" days and "x"nights was ever used in the first century or before when it absolutely didn’t include at least parts of the "x" days and at least parts of the "x" nights?

No, just the opposite.

Rabbi Eleazar ben Azariah, a contemporary of Gamaliel in the 1st Century "codified" (if you will) that which had always been customary. He wrote: "A day and a night are an Onah (a portion of time) and the portion of an Onah is as the whole of it" (J.Talmud, Shabbath 9.3 and b.Talmud, Pesachim 4)

Your original question, and my answer with references.

Mcgyver,

re: "...the purpose was to show that no such prohibition existed..."

Then there should be some actual use of the "idiom" that absolutely demonstrates that position.

I'm confused...what exactly are you wanting to see?

Edited by Mcgyver
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Mcgyver,

re: "I'm confused...what exactly are you wanting to see?"

Any writing from the first century or before that shows that a phrase stating a specific number of days as well as a specific number of nights was ever used when it absolutely didn’t include at least a part of each one of the specific number of days and at least a part of each one of the specific number of nights.

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LoyalGypsy,

re: "Do you have an example..."

Not sure what kind of an example you are asking for?

Greetings

Not sure what kind of an example you are asking for?

You brought this up and said

They frequently argue that it is a Jewish idiom for counting any part of a day as a whole day.

Not sure what kind of an example you are asking for

The argument

If I knew what they frequently argue, I wouldn’t have asked

LG

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LoyalGypsy,

re: "Do you have an example..."

Not sure what kind of an example you are asking for?

Greetings

Not sure what kind of an example you are asking for?

You brought this up and said

They frequently argue that it is a Jewish idiom for counting any part of a day as a whole day.

Not sure what kind of an example you are asking for

The argument

If I knew what they frequently argue, I wouldn’t have asked

LG

touche' Gypsy, touche'

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LoyalGypsy,

re: "The argument If I knew what they frequently argue, I wouldn’t have asked"

Sorry; when you asked in your post #37 "Do you have an example" I honestly did not know to what you were referring. It never crossed my mind that it was with regard to "the argument" since that knowledge has nothing to do with being able to provide the information asked for in the OP.

But to anwer your question, the argument with 6th day crucifixion proponents is that Matthew 12:40 is an idiom and therefore doesn't have to include at least a part of each one of the 3 days and at least a part of each one of the 3 nights.

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Hi I am knew to this forum and look forward to learning much and pray the Lord will also let me bring Him glory...

A rather unique history recorded in ancient Jewish writings tells us of a tradition that developed which is not Torah but became the custom in Jerusalem. This article in its entirety can be found at http://www.templeins...rg/passover.htm but this is not the only source...

This is only one of the witnesses that a change had taken place regarding the Passover meal. First off the Temple priests had instituted a tradition that

a) "a passover sacrifice" was to be made in the Temple

b) that all Jewish people had to bring an offering

c) and that the lambs for the Temple Sedar would be slain on the afternoon of the 14th of Nisan (the eve and morn being a day) and the non-Torah Temple Sedar would be eaten on the evening of the 15th

This was against or contrary to God's laws in thew Torah which specifically say the Passover lamb was to be slain right after sundown on the 14th, bled, and roasted and eaten "in that night" (Exodus 12:8), not in the daylight portion of the 14th and not on the 15th. Second there is no mention in the Torah of all Jews having to bring their Passover offering (which itself is not Torah) to the Temple (which did not even exist yet for 100s of years). A real Kosher or Hallel slaying of the lamb requires about 4 hours for total bleed out...then it is washed and roasted (another couple of hours) and then eaten....

This "tradition" of a Temple Sedar was developed by men after the Babylonian captivity, and like Sabbath corporate worship in the Synagogue, as well as the Feast of Dedication, it had become seen as obligatory to the masses but was not in any way commanded by God. It was their custom (culturally accepted religious norm and nothing more)

So Jesus kept the appropriate Torah based Sedar with His brethren (and probably the women that were with them) on the evening of the 14th of Nisan and was crucified (slain) in the daylight portion of the same day (at the time the Temple priests were slaying the lambs for their man made Temple Sedar). They developed this tradition with a goodly motive. The idea of a Temple Sedar was to hold the celebration for all those who were travelling and could not be in a home, and for the poor who could not afford a lamb, but by the time of Jesus (like these two other "customs" I mentioned) it had become common place and expected of everyone.

So Jesus was slain on Passover. The fact He had to be taken down and buried before sundown means the next eve/morn cycle was the 7th day Sabbath (which by chance also was the first day of the Torah feat of unleavened bread)...now the feast of first fruits always falls right after the 7th day Sabbath (again proving this middle day to be the 7th day Sabbath) in this feast no matter when the feast begins (on a 1st day, a 3rd day, etc,) and we know from scripture He rose on the feast of first fruits..that is why Passover (the original Christian Pashal celebration celebrating His death till He comes) no matter what day of the week it falls on, is the week when our Easter (the feast of first fruits when Jesus rose from the tomb) directly follows.

So now do the math...Passover was on the 6th day of the week in this year (when He was crucified), He rested in the tomb all of the 7th day Sabbath, and rose on the feast of first fruits (which always immediately follows the 7th day Sabbath in the Feast of Unleavened Bread)....count it any way you will but He rose the third day.

Now then in regard to the OP...no there is no example from scripture where the three days and three nights idiom does NOT mean it includes at least a part of all three days...

In His love

Brother Paul

Edited by Brother Paul
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