Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
GoldenEagle

Israel's Promise and Being Grafted In...

Recommended Posts

According to the Bible in the OT Israel was composed of 1) the descendents of Jacob (Ex. 1:1, Josh. 13:6) and 2) those who joined Israel by circumcision and upholding the law.

(Ex. 12:48) Caleb (Joshua 14:6-7) was the son of Jephunneh the Kenizzite is an example of one who joined Israel.

The two questions becomes: A. How do we know Israel is God’s chosen people? And B. Are Christians grafted into God’s promise to Israel?

But first a comment on Scripture comparison and isolation...

1. Scripture Comparison: To obtain the correct teaching of any passage we must compare all (or at least a majority) other Scriptures that pertain to the same subject or verse in question. When all Scriptures pertaining to the same subject agree, then we have the correct teaching of that subject or verse. If not, then we have a wrong interpretation or application of the verse or subject in question. This would then lead to a false teaching perpetuated upon the unsuspecting congregation or audience. Since all Scripture is given by "inspiration of God" (2nd Timothy 3:16), there can be no error or contradiction in God's Word. This is why Peter declared…

2 Peter 1:20

“Knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation,”

I question what others teach and I'm comparing what people say to the Bible (Acts 17:11, 1 Thess. 5:21). We should all do this do you agree? Please feel free to do this for me as well. ;)

The Bareans did this. Perhaps I've become somewhat of a Barean in searching the Scriptures. (Acts 17:11)

Acts 17:11

These were more fair-minded than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness, and searched the Scriptures daily to find out whether these things were so.

2. Isolation Of One Passage and Context: This does not mean that one cannot understand the Scriptures for themselves. It does warn against anyone building a doctrine on one, isolated, verse without comparing all other verses on the same subject. This is why the Holy Spirit inspired Paul in 2 Tim. 2:15 to emphasize the value of studying the Word of God for one's self as a “worker” for the Lord so we might understand the truth found in the Bible.

2 Timothy 2:15

“Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.”

Plus we're told to question everything and hold onto what is good. (1 Thess. 5:21)

1 Thess. 5:21

Test all things; hold fast to what is good.

Thoughts? Do you agree or disagree?

Anything to add?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A. How do we know Israel is God’s chosen people?

Israel1.png

3. Text Re – Israel as God’s Chosen People: Israel is God’s chosen people. Deut. 7:6 speaks of God’s chosen people. Deut. 7:8 tells us God loves Israel. Deut. 6:3-4 reveals this was spoken to Israel. Who was Israel? Those who came out of Egypt with Moses as seen in Deut. 7:8. There is a very similar verse in Deut. 14.2.

Deut. 7:6-8

6 “For you are a holy people to the Lord your God; the Lord your God has chosen you to be a people for Himself, a special treasure above all the peoples on the face of the earth. 7 The Lord did not set His love on you nor choose you because you were more in number than any other people, for you were the least of all peoples; 8 but because the Lord loves you, and because He would keep the oath which He swore to your fathers, the Lord has brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you from the house of bondage, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.

Deut. 6:3-4

3 Therefore hear, O Israel, and be careful to observe it, that it may be well with you, and that you may multiply greatly as the Lord God of your fathers has promised you—‘a land flowing with milk and honey.’

4 “Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one!

Deut. 14.2

For you are a holy people to the Lord your God, and the Lord has chosen you to be a people for Himself, a special treasure above all the peoples who are on the face of the earth.

In 1 Chron. 16:13 God refers to “His chosen ones” in reference to Israel and the descendants of Jacob.

1 Chron. 16:13

O seed of Israel His servant, You children of Jacob, His chosen ones!

David referred to Israel as God’s chosen nation and inheritance (Ps. 33:12) even though they sinned (Ps. 106:6), yet God delivered them. ( Ps. 100:43.)

Ps. 33:12

Blessed is the nation whose God is the Lord, the people He has chosen as His own inheritance.

Ps. 106:6

We have sinned with our fathers,

We have committed iniquity,

We have done wickedly.

Ps. 106:43

Many times He delivered them;

But they rebelled in their counsel,

And were brought low for their iniquity.

Is. 44:1 God refers to Israel as “my servant, my chosen people.” Isaiah records in Is. 48:12 as “My called.”

Is. 44:1

“Yet hear now, O Jacob My servant, And Israel whom I have chosen.

Is. 48:12

“Listen to Me, O Jacob,

And Israel, My called:

I am He, I am the First,

I am also the Last.

The covenant established with Israel was an everlasting covenant. (Gen. 17:7)

Genesis 17:7

And I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you in their generations, for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and your descendants after you.

Thoughts? Do you agree or disagree?

Anything to add?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

B. Are Christians grafted into God’s promise to Israel?

grafted_in_postage-p172036797398772953enw64_400.jpg

4. Text Re – Christians are Grafted Into Israel: God promised to Abraham a land, a great nation, a great name, and a blessing that would include all the families of the earth. (Gen. 12:1-3)

Gen. 12:1-3

Now the Lord had said to Abram:

“Get out of your country,

From your family

And from your father’s house,

To a land that I will show you.

2 I will make you a great nation;

I will bless you

And make your name great;

And you shall be a blessing.

3 I will bless those who bless you,

And I will curse him who curses you;

And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.

The promise of the blessing was originally for the Jews (Israel) through the line of Jesse. (Isa. 11:1-2)

Isa. 11:1-2

1 There shall come forth a Rod from the stem of Jesse,

And a Branch shall grow out of his roots.

2 The Spirit of the Lord shall rest upon Him,

The Spirit of wisdom and understanding,

The Spirit of counsel and might,

The Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord.

Jesus Christ who was Messiah foretold (Gen. 12:3, Dan. 7:13, Is. 7:14, Is. 9:6) in the OT died for all people that all should no longer live for themselves but for God through Jesus Christ. (2 Cor. 5:14-15)

Dan. 7:13

I saw in the night visions, and behold, with the clouds of heaven there came one like a son of man, and he came to the Ancient of Days and was presented before him.

Is. 7:14

Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

Is. 9:6

For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

2 Cor 5:14-15

14 For the love of Christ compels us, because we judge thus: that if One died for all, then all died; 15 and He died for all, that those who live should live no longer for themselves, but for Him who died for them and rose again.

God revealed that those who Believed in Jesus Christ would be grafted into the promise made to Israel. (Rom. 1:16)

Rom 1:16

For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Gentile {Greek}.

The Uncircumcised (Gentiles - (Eph 2: 11) are now a part of the Circumcision (God’s chosen people of promise - Israel) through Christ’s atonement sacrifice of blood (and his life) for our sins at the cross (Eph 2: 13).

Eph. 2:11-13

We Are Brought Near by His Blood

11 Therefore remember that you, once Gentiles in the flesh—who are called Uncircumcision by what is called the Circumcision made in the flesh by hands— 12 that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.

In Christ we have peace (Eph. 2:14). As Christians both Jews and Gentiles are made one. (Eph. 2:14) When we accept Christ as our Savior and Lord he reconciles us through the cross putting to death the enmity between us (mankind) and God. (Eph. 2:16) Both Jews and Gentiles in Christ have access to the Holy Spirit of the Father. (Eph. 2:18)

Eph. 2:14-18

Christ Is Our Peace

14 For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, 15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, 16 and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity. 17 And He came and preached peace to you who were afar off and to those who were near. 18 For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father.

Thoughts? Do you agree or disagree?

Anything to add?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The two questions becomes: A. How do we know Israel is God’s chosen people? And B. Are Christians grafted into God’s promise to Israel?

Well now, since you ask questions and then use the Bible to back up your belief what can I say, but that I agree with your take on what God has stated in His Word.

agree-Copy.gif

The passages that you listed would be the ones I would use to back up my thoughts on the questions. Salvation comes to the Jews first then to us Gentiles, I have been adopted twice have you, once into my worldly family and then into God chosen people.

I like to paraphase it this way;

{For it is by Grace that I have been saved, through Faith, and this was not of myself it was a Gift from God, so I can not boast. For I am God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for me to do. Once dead I now live through the blood of Christ.}

There is no mystery that us gentiles have been brought into the family, made one in the promise in Christ Jesus.

Eph 3:1 For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for the sake of you Gentiles—

Eph 3:2 Surely you have heard about the administration of God's grace that was given to me for you,

Eph 3:3 that is, the mystery made known to me by revelation, as I have already written briefly.

Eph 3:4 In reading this, then, you will be able to understand my insight into the mystery of Christ,

Eph 3:5 which was not made known to men in other generations as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to God's holy apostles and prophets.

Eph 3:6 This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus.

ICL~~~Dennis

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

what is God's promise to Israel??? just what (in your own words) did he promise them?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

what is God's promise to Israel??? just what (in your own words) did he promise them?

Not sure if this is directed to me... But here it is again - God promised to Abraham a land, a great nation, a great name, and a blessing that would include all the families of the earth. (Gen. 12:1-3)

I'm not sure what the purpose of the question is? Possible to rephrase?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

what is God's promise to Israel??? just what (in your own words) did he promise them?

Not sure if this is directed to me... But here it is again - God promised to Abraham a land, a great nation, a great name, and a blessing that would include all the families of the earth. (Gen. 12:1-3)

I'm not sure what the purpose of the question is? Possible to rephrase?

God's Promises To Israel:

I have posted this on another thread a long time ago. It is not original with me, but I dont have the link for it. I will try to find the link, but here is the essense of what I posted years ago. God has made a lot of promises to Israel.

ABRAHAM [FATHER OF FAITH] AND G-D'S EVERLASTING COVENANT OF PROMISE

Genesis 12:1-4; Genesis 12:7; Genesis 13:14-17; Genesis 15:1-21; Genesis 17:1-21; Genesis 18:10-14; Genesis 21:5; Genesis 22:15-18;

Genesis 24:7; Genesis 25:5; Genesis 26:3-5; Genesis 28:12-15; Genesis 35:10-12; Genesis 48:3-4; Genesis 50:24-25; Exodus 6:7-8;

Exodus 13:11; Exodus 32:13; Exodus 33:1; Leviticus 25:23, 38; Leviticus 26:42; Numbers 14:21-23; Numbers 32:10-11; Numbers 33:51-54; Deuteronomy 1:8; Deuteronomy 1:35; Deuteronomy 4:21; 31; Deuteronomy 6:10, 18, 23; Deuteronomy 7:8-13; Deuteronomy 8:1, 18;

Deuteronomy 9:5; Deuteronomy 10:11; Deuteronomy 11:9, 21; Deuteronomy 13:17; Deuteronomy 19:8; Deuteronomy 26:3;

Deuteronomy 28:9-11; Deuteronomy 29:13; Deuteronomy 30:20; Deuteronomy 31:7, 20-21; Deuteronomy34:4; Joshua 1:6; Joshua 5:6;

Joshua 14:9; Joshua 21:43; Judges 2:1; Nehemiah 9:6-15; Psalm 89:3, 35; Psalm 106:6-12; Psalm 119:106; Isaiah 14:24; Isaiah 45:22-25;

Isaiah 62:8; Jeremiah 11:5; Micah 7:20; Romans 4:3; Galatians 3:6-9; Galatians 3:16-18; Hebrews 6:13; Hebrews 11:8-21; James 2:21-23;

G-D CHOSE THE JEWISH PEOPLE. ONCE G-D MAKES A CHOICE, HE STANDS BY IT!

A PEOPLE [CHOSEN] OF G-D

Exodus 6:7; Exodus 29:45-46; Deuteronomy 4:37; Deuteronomy 7:6-8; Deuteronomy 14:2; I Samuel 12:22; I kings 3:8; I Chronicles 16:13;

II Chronicles 7:16; Psalm 33:12; Psalm 105:6; Isaiah 43:10; Isaiah 45:1,2-3; Isaiah 48:12; Isaiah 51:15-16; Romans 3:1-2

A PEOPLE EXALTED ABOVE ALL NATIONS:

Deuteronomy 26:19

A PEOPLE FIRMLY ESTABLISHED:

Deuteronomy 28:9; II Chronicles 9:8; II Chronicles 20:20; Isaiah 54:14

"ANI LEDODI V'DODI LEE" - "I AM MY BELOVED'S AND MY BELOVED IS MINE"

(Song of Solomon 6:3)

A PEOPLE WHOSE HOPE IS PLANTED IN THEIR G-D

Psalm 137:5-6; Isaiah 43:1-7; Isaiah 40-1-8;

A PEOPLE PROMISED GREATNESS:

Isaiah 2:2-4; Isaiah 9:6-7; Hosea 2:19-20; Zephaniah 3:14-20; Zechariah 8:23; Zechariah 14:16

A PEOPLE WHO CANNOT BE MOVED:

Exodus 1:7; Leviticus 26:44-45

A REMNANT WILL BE SAVED IN HER:

Isaiah 1:9; Isaiah 11:11, 16; Isaiah 37:4, 31-32; Jeremiah 6:9; Jeremiah 23:3; Jeremiah 31:7; Ezekiel 14:22; Micah 2:12; Micah 5:3;

Zephaniah 2:7-9; Romans 9:27; Romans 11:5

WHEN G-D MAKES A COVENANT, HE KEEPS IT!

BELIEVERS IN THE COVENANT:

Isaiah 42:6; Hosea 1:10; Isaiah 59: 20-21; Jeremiah 31:31-34; Ezekiel 11:17-20; Romans 11:26-32

"REAL LOVE COSTS EVERYTHING, COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY. I HAVE MADE A COVENANT TO LOVE ISRAEL

AND TO PAY WHATEVER PRICE THAT WILL BE REQUIRED OF ME. I'M NOT THE ONLY ARAB WHO MAY SAY THIS;

THERE ARE A FEW; AND I'M NOT THE ONLY CHRISTIAN, THERE ARE MILLIONS"

(Widad van der Hoeven - Biblical Dinner - September 1980)

BELOVED OF ALL G-D'S PEOPLE:

Nehemiah 1:2-4; Nehemiah 2:5-6; Psalm 122:6; Psalm 137:5-6; Isaiah 62:1; Isaiah 66:10

BIBLICAL BASIS FOR THE EXODUS OF THE SOVIET JEWS

Deuteronomy 30:3-6; Isaiah 11:11-12; Isaiah 43:5-6; Ezekiel 11:17; Jeremiah 3:11-25; Jeremiah 16:14-16; Jeremiah 23:3; Jeremiah 31:7-10;

Zechariah 10:8-10; Zechariah 2:8-9

BIRTH OF MESSIAH IN THE LAND OF PROMISE FORETOLD:

Micah 5:2; Daniel 7:13-14

[CALLED] OF G-D TO BLESS NATIONS:

Genesis 17:16; Genesis 18:18; Genesis 35:11; Genesis 22:18; Exodus 34:24; Leviticus 18:28; Numbers 14:15; Deuteronomy 4:6, 38;

Deuteronomy 9:4-5; Deuteronomy 11:23; Deuteronomy 15:6; Deuteronomy 32:43; Joshua 23:3-9; Judges 2:21; Judges 3:1; II Samuel 7:23;

I Chronicles 17:21; Psalm 47:3; Psalm 67:4; Psalm 72:11-17; Psalm 135:10; Isaiah 29:7-8; Isaiah 41:2; Isaiah 60:16; Isaiah 66:12;

Habakkuk 3:6; Malachi 3:12; Acts 10:45; Acts 11:1, 18; Acts 15:7- 17; Romans 4:17-18; Galatians 3:8; Colossians 1:27

JERUSALEM IS, AND WILL FOREVER REMAIN, THE ETERNAL CAPITAL OF THE JEWISH NATION AND

THE ETERNAL CAPITAL OF THE STATE OF ISRAEL

[CHOSEN] JERUSALEM AS CITY OF G-D:

Deuteronomy 16:11; I Kings 8:48; II Kings 21:7; II Chronicles 7:16; II Chronicles 16:13; II Chronicles 36:22-23; Nehemiah 1:9; Psalm 51:18;

Psalm 128:5; Psalm 147:12-14; Isaiah 22:21-25; Isaiah 40:2; Isaiah 41:27; Isaiah 44:26-28; Isaiah 51:17; Isaiah 52:1-4; Isaiah 62:6-7;

Isaiah 65:18-19; Isaiah 66:10; Jeremiah 2:2; Jeremiah 4:3-4, 14; Jeremiah 5:1; Jeremiah 6:8; Jeremiah 11:6; Jeremiah 15:5; Jeremiah 17:26;

Jeremiah 27:18; Jeremiah 34:8; Jeremiah 51:50; Ezekiel 8:3; Ezekiel 9:4; Zephaniah 1:12; Zechariah 3:2; Zechariah 7:7; Zechariah 12:6-11

[CHOSEN] OF G-D TO BLESS NATIONS:

Psalm 2:6; Psalm 9:11; Pslam 20:2; Psalm 50:2; Psalm 76:2; Psalm 128:5; Pslam 132: 13-14; Psalm 135:21; Psalm 146:10; Isaiah 2:3;

Isaiah 28:16; Isaiah 30:19; Isaiah 35:10; Isaiah 46:13; Isaiah 50:20; Isaiah 51:3; Isaiah 52:7-8; Joel 2:22-23; Joel 3:16-17; Micah 4:2;

Zechariah 2:6-9

IF I AM NOT FOR MYSELF, WHO WILL BE ? IF I AM ONLY FOR MYSELF, WHAT AM I?IF NOT NOW, WHEN?

[Rabbi Hillel]

CITY OF DAVID:

I Kings 8:1; I Chronicles 15:1, 29; II Chronicles 5:2

CONQUERED BY KING DAVID:

II Samuel 24:19-21

"YOU HAVE A GREAT JOB TO DO, TO CONVINCE THE WORLD THAT THIS CITY MUST NEVER BE DIVIDED AGAIN"

[Teddy Kollek - Mayor of Jerusalem - October 1981]

DAVID'S CAPITAL:

I King 15:4; II Kings 19:34; II Chronicles 6:6; II Chronicles 12:13; Zachariah 14:8-9, 16

DIVINE REBUILDING AND RESTORATION PROMISED:

Psalm 69:35-36; Psalm 102:13-16; Psalm 126:1-6; Isaiah 1:25-27; Isaiah 4:2-6; Isaiah 11:12; Isaiah 25:6-10; Isaiah 26:1-2, 12;

Isaiah 29:18-24; Isaiah 30:18-26; Isaiah 32:15-18; Isaiah 33:24; Isaiah 35:1-10; Isaiah 41:19; Isaiah 44:26-28; Isaiah 49:6-23; Isaiah 51:3-11;

Isaiah 52:1-9; Isaiah 58:12; Isaiah 60:1,10-15; Isaiah 61:4; Isaiah 62:2-3; Isaiah 66:11-14; Jeremiah 24:6-7; Jeremiah 27:22; Jeremiah 30:3-18;

Jeremiah 31:38-40; Jeremiah 32:37-44; Jeremiah 33:7-12; Ezekiel 16:60; Ezekiel 20:40-41; Ezekiel 36:8-38; Ezekiel 37:10-28;

Daniel 9:25; Joel 2:25-27; Joel 3:1-2;, 12-14 Joel; 3:20-21; Micah 5:3; Haggai 2:3-9; Zephaniah 2:7; Zephaniah 3:14-16; Zechariah 1:14-17; Zechariah 2:1-5, 7, 10; Zechariah 8:1-16; Zechariah 9:9; Zechariah 10:6-10; Zechariah 14:10; Malachi 3:4; Revelation 7:4-8

ETERNAL CITY OF G-D:

Jeremiah 17:25; Ezekiel 37:25-28

ERETZ YISRAEL L'AM YISRAEL -- THE LAND OF ISRAEL BELONGS TO THE JEWISH PEOPLE

EVERLASTING COVENANT:

Genesis 17:7-8; Genesis 26:3-4; Genesis 35:11-12; Psalms 105:7-11; Jeremiah 30:3; Jeremiah 33:23-26

FROM WHERE THE DELIVERER WILL COME:

Romans 11:26

GATHERING AND RESTORATION PROMISED:

Deuteronomy 30:1-5; Psalms 50:2-6; Pslam 106:16; Psalms 106:47; 107:2-3; ; Isaiah 11:1-12; Isaiah 27:8-12; Isaiah 43:4-9;

Isaiah 45:17-20; Isaiah 49:5-22; Isaiah 51:11-12; Isaiah 60:4-5; Isaiah 62:10-12; Isaiah 66:19-22; Jeremiah 23:6-8; Jeremiah 29:11-14;

Jeremiah 30:17-18; Jeremiah 32:39-42; Jeremiah 33:6-14; Jeremiah 46:27-28; Ezekiel 11:16-20; Ezekiel 20:33-42; Ezekiel 28:25-26;

Ezekiel 34:12-13; Ezekiel 36:24-28; Ezekiel 37:1-14, & 21-22; Joel 2:32; Joel 3:1-7; Micah 2:12; Micah 4:6-12; Jeremiah 31:3-4;

Zephaniah 3:16-20; Zechariah 8:3-8; Amos 9:14-15; Matthew 24:31; Mark 13:27; Luke 2:34; Acts 1:6; Acts 3:19-21; Hebrews 11:8-10

GATHERING OF THE NATIONS TO ZION:

Psalm 22:27-28; Psalm 86:9; Isaiah 2:2-3; Isaiah 5:26; Isaiah 11:10; Isaiah 43:9; Isaiah 45:20; Isaiah 55:5; Isaiah 60:1-5; Isaiah 66:18;

Jeremiah 3:17; Jeremiah 16:19; Jereiah 30:7; Joel 3:12; Micah 4:2-3; Zephaniah 3:8; Haggai 2:7; Zechariah 8:22-23; Zechariah 12:3;

Zechariah 14:2-5

G-D'S ELECT:

Luke 18:7; Romans 8:33

G-D'S FIRSTBORN SON:

Exodus 4:22-23; Exodus 12:29-30

"WHEN PEOPLE CRITICIZE ZIONISTS THEY MEAN JEWS, YOU ARE TALKING ANTI-SEMITISM."

[Dr. Martin Luther King, 1968 Harvard University]

G-D'S HOLY PEOPLE:

Exodus 3:7; Exodus 10:3; Deuteronomy 7:6; Deuteronomy 14:2, 21

HOUSE OF G-D:

Isaiah 2:3

HOUSE OF ISRAEL:

Exodus 40:38; Joshua 21:45; II Samuel 6:5; Psalm 98:3; Psalm 135:19; Isaiah 63:7; Jeremiah 18:1-6; Jeremiah 31:31-37; Jeremiah 33:14;

Hosea 1:10; Amos 5:4; Hebrews 8:8-12

HOUSE OF PRAYER:

Isaiah 56:7; Matthew 21:13

HOUSE OF SACRIFICE:

II Chronicles 7:12

"I BELIEVE IN THE SUN EVEN WHEN IT IS NOT SHINING.

I BELIEVE IN LOVE EVEN WHEN NOT FEELING IT. I BELIEVE IN G-D EVEN WHEN HE IS SILENT --

[inscription found etched on a wall in Polland during WWII]

INGATHERING FROM THE NATIONS:

Genesis 49:10; Exodus 19:4; Deuteronomy 29:16; Deuteronomy 30:3; Isaiah 11:10-14; Isaiah 27:13; Isaiah 43:5-6; Isaiah 45:6;

Isaiah 45:11-13; Isaiah 49:12; Isaiah 49:22-23; Isaiah 51:11; Isaiah 66:8; Jeremiah 3:14-18; Jeremiah 12:14-16; Jeremiah 16:14-16;

Jeremiah 23:3; Jeremiah 29:14; Jeremiah 30:1-3; Jeremiah 31:10-17; Jeremiah 33:19-26; Jeremiah 43:5; Ezekiel 20:33-36; Ezekiel 38:8;

Ezekiel 36:24; Amos 3:7; Amos 9 14-15; Zechariah 2:8

ISRAEL'S L-RD G-D, SAVIOUR, REDEEMER, AND KING

Genesis 1814; Exodus 3:11-15; Exodus 15:26; Isaiah 45:15; Isaiah 45:17; Psalm 2; Psalm 5:2; Psalm 10:16; Psalm 24:7-10; Psalm 38:18-22;

Psalm 40:7; Psalm 45:6; Psalm 47:7; Psalm 77:2-3; Psalm 102:6, 19; Psalm 107:20; Isaiah 6:1-5; Isaiah 7:14; Isaiah 9:6; Isaiah 40:3-9;

Isaiah 40:28; Isaiah 44:5-6; Isaiah 45:22-25; Isaiah 46:9-10; Isaiah 48:10-12; Isaiah 49:22; Isaiah 60:17; Jeremiah 23:3-8; Jeremiah 30:8-11;

Jeremiah 31:8-11; Jeremiah 31:31-34; Jeremiah 50:33-34; Ezekiel 36:24-28; Joel 2:28-29; Zechariah 6:12-13; Zechariah 14:16;

Malachi 3:6; ; Matthew 25:31-46; John 1:1; John 8:58; Acts 10:36-38; I Timothy 3:16; Hebrews 10:7; Jude 24-25; Revelation 1:8;

Revelation 1:17-18; Revelation 19:16; Revelation 21:6-7; Revelation 22:12-16

O' L-RD, GIVE US A WINDOW TO THE WORLD, ON BEHALF OF ISRAEL AND HER PEOPLE"

JERUSALEM: PAST, PRESENT, FUTURE:

Psalm 48:2; Psalm 48:12-13; Psalm 102:14; Psalm 122:3; Psalm 125:2; Song of Songs 6:4; Isaiah 33:20-21; Isaiah 60:18; Ezekiel 5:5;

Micah 4:8; Zechariah 2:4

JESHURUN:

Isaiah 44:2

LAND OF IMMANUEL:

Isaiah 8:8

LAND OF ISRAEL:

Deuteronomy 32:8; I Samuel 13:19; Psalm 24:1; Ezekiel 36:24; Ezekiel 38:16; Amos 9:15; Joel 3:2

LAND OF PROMISE:

Genesis 12:7; Genesis 13:15; Genesis 15:7, 18; Genesis 17:8; Genesis 50:24; Genesis 13:10; Exodus 3:8; Exodus 6:8; Numbers 13:27;

Numbers 14:8; Deuteronomy 6:10; Deuteronomy 8:7-10; Deuteronomy 11:9-12; Joshua 5:6; Judges 2:1; Jeremiah 2:7; Hebrews 11:9

Genesis 40:15

"ANYONE WHO TRULY BELIEVES THE WORD OF G-D, BE HE JEW OR CHRISTIAN, SHOULD BE ABLE TO AFFIRM

HE IS A ZIONIST" -- [Michael Ford]

LAND OF THE JEWS:

Acts 10:39

THE NAME OF THE LAND IS "ISRAEL" NOT PALESTINE!

Ezekiel 37:11-12; 38:18

LAW OF G-D WRITTEN UPON THEIR HEARTS

Jeremiah 31:31-34; Hebrews 8:10

L-RD G-D OF THE HEBREWS:

Exodus 10:3

"I BELIEVE WITH PERFECT FAITH IN THE COMING OF MESSIAH, AND THOUGH HE TARRY,

NEVERTHELESS DO I BELIEVE

[Maimonides]

MESSIAH'S EVERLASTING KINGDOM:

Isaiah 2:1-5; Joel 3:1, 17-18; Amos 9:9-15; Obadiah 1:17; Zechariah 14:4-11

MOUNT MORIAH:

II Chronicles 3:1

"HAVENU SHALOM ALECHEM" --"WE BRING PEACE TO YOU"

MOUNT ZION OF G-D:

Exodus 15:17-18; II Kings 19:31; Psalm 15:1; Psalm 48:1-3; Psalm 74:2; Psalm 78:68; Psalm 87:1; Psalm 99:2; Psalm 102:16;

Psalm 125:1-2; Psalm 128:5; Psalm 133:3; Psalm 137:4; Psalm 147:12-14; Isaiah 2:2-3; Isaiah 4:5; Isaiah 8:18; Isaiah 10:12;

Isaiah 11:9; Isaiah 14:32; Isaiah 24:23; Isaiah 25:6-10; Isaiah 29:7-8; Isaiah 30:29; Isaiah 31:4-5, 9; Isaiah 37:32; Isaiah 40:9;

Isaiah 49:14-16; Isaiah 56:7; Isaiah 57:13; Isaiah 65:25; Isaiah 66:20; Jeremiah 31:23; Ezekiel 17:22-23; Ezekiel 20:40; Ezekiel 43:12;

Daniel 9:16-21; Joel 2:1; Joel 3:17-18; Joel 2:32; Amos 1:2; Obadiah 1:16-21; Micah 4:1-2, 7; Zephaniah 3:11; Haggai 1:8; Zechariah 8:3;

Hebrews 12:22; Revelation 14:1

NAME USED FOR JERUSALEM:

Psalm 87:2-5; Psalm 149:2; Song of Songs 3:11; Isaiah 33:14, 20; Jeremiah 30:17

"LE-SHANNAH HA-BA'AH B' YERUSHALAYIM!" --

"NEXT YEAR IN JERUSALEM!"

NATION UNDER MESSIAH'S RULE:

Numbers 24:17-19; Isaiah 9:6-7; Isaiah 11:1-3; Isaiah 11: 10-16; Isaiah 12:1-5; Isaiah 28:5; Isaiah 55:4-5; Isaiah 59:20-21;

Daniel 7:13-14, 27; Daniel 2:44-45: Hosea 3:4-5; Micah 5:2; Zechariah 9:9-10; Zechariah 14:9; Malachi 3:1-3; Luke 1:32-33;

Revelation 5:10; Revelation 11:15; Revelation 20:4-6; Revelation 21:1-5; Revelation 21:22-27; Revelation 22:1-5

PROPHECIES GIVEN:

Genesis 15:5, 13-14; Genesis 26:4; Genesis 27:28-29

" SHEMA YISROEL; ADONAI ELOHENU ADONAI ECHOD"

"HEAR O' ISRAEL; THE L-RD OUR G-D IS ONE L-RD"Deuteronomy 6:4-5; Mark 12:29-31

SIGNIFICANT AND PRECIOUS TO ALL OF G-D'S PEOPLE:

Jeremiah 31:6; Zechariah 8:2-3

STRANGERS IN ISRAEL:

Exodus 22:21; Leviticus 19:33:34; Leviticus 25:35; Numbers 15:15-16, 26; Numbers 35:15; Deuteronomy 1:16; Deuteronomy 10:19;

Deuteronomy 19:18; Deuteronomy 23:7; Deuteronomy 24:14-19; Deuteronomy 26:12-13; Deuteronomy 27:19; Joshua 20:9; Ruth 2:10;

II Chronicles 2:17; II Chronicles 15:9; Job 31:32; Psalm 146:9; Isaiah 14:1; Jeremiah 7:6-7; Jeremiah 22:3; Ezekiel 22:29;

Ezekiel 47:22-23; Zechariah 7:10; Malachi 3:5; Hebrews 13:2

"YOUR PRESENCE HAS NOT ONLY CAUSED US TO REMEMBER, IT HAS CAUSED US TO BE COMFORTED"

(President Navon - September 1980)

STRANGERS AND RESTORATION:

Isaiah 60:10; Isaiah 61:5; Romans 15:6-12

"SEEING YOU MAKE THIS TREMENDOUS EFFORT TO COME, SHOWING YOUR SYMPATHY, SOLIDARITY, AND

BELIEF IN THE FUTURE OF ISRAEL, THIS TO US IS TREMENDOUS. WE BLESS YOU AND CONSIDER YOU A PART

OF THE ACCOMPLISHMENT OF THE PROPHETIC VISION SPOKEN OF BY ZECHARIAH IN CHAPTER 14"

(Chief Rabbi Shlomo Goren - September 1980)

STRANGERS: WORSHIPPING WITH:

Deuteronomy 6:11,14; Deuteronomy 26:11; Deuteronomy 29:10-13; Deuteronomy 31:12; Joshua 8:33-35; I Kings 8:41-43;

I Chronicles 6:32-33; II Chronicles 30:25; Jeremiah 31:7-8

"YOUR SUPREME CONTRIBUTION IS FAITH IN THE WORD OF THE G-D OF ISRAEL"

(Menachem Savidor - Speaker of the Knesset - October 1981)

THE HOLY LAND:

Zechariah 2:12

THE NATION AND ITS PROMISES:

Psalm 14:7; Psalm 51:1-3; Psalm 53:6; Psalm 85:1-9; Isaiah 44:21-23: Isaiah 45:17; Isaiah 51:5-8; Isaiah 66:4; Jeremiah 17:13-14;

Jeremiah 50:19-20; Daniel 12:1; Zechariah 12:10; Romans 11:26-27

THRUST TO ALL NATIONS:

Deuteronomy 28:37; I Chronicles 16:31; Isaiah 45:1-3; Isaiah 49:6; Isaiah 52:10-15; Isaiah 64:2; Isaiah 66:19; Jeremiah 1:10; Jeremiah 4:2;

Jeremiah 10:7; Jeremiah 25:14-31; Jeremiah 31:7; Jeremiah 33:9; Ezekiel 38:23; Zechariah 2:8-11; Matthew 24:14; Acts 13: 47-49;

Romans 15:6-12

WHERE G-D'S W-RD WILL GO FORTH:

Proverbs 21:30; Micah 4:2; Luke 24:47

"BARUCH ATAH ADONAI ELOHEINU MELEKH HA-OLAM SHE-HECHIYANU V'KIMANU V'HIGI 'ANU LA-ZMAN HA-ZEH"

"BLESSED ART THOU, O L-RD, OUR G-D, KING OF THE UNIVERSE, WHO HAS KEPT US ALIVE AND

MAINTAINED US AND ENABLED US TO REACH THIS SEASON"

WHERE ISRAEL'S FEASTS ARE OBSERVED:

Ezekiel 36:38; Deuteronomy 16:16; Psalm 122:3-5; Luke 2:41; John 10:22-23; John 12:20; Acts 18:21

WHERE THE HOLY SPIRIT WAS OUTPOURED:

Luke 24:49; Acts 1:4; Acts 2:1-4

ZION OF G-D:

II Samuel 5:6-9; II Chronicles 11:5-7; Psalm 78:68; Psalm 87:1-7; Psalm 102:13-18; Psalm 128:5; Psalm 132:13-14; Isaiah 2:1-4;

Isaiah 14:22; Isaiah 51:11-12; Isaiah 55:11-12; Jeremiah 16:15; Jeremiah 31:6--9; Jeremiah 50:4-5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

what is God's promise to Israel??? just what (in your own words) did he promise them?

Not sure if this is directed to me... But here it is again - God promised to Abraham a land, a great nation, a great name, and a blessing that would include all the families of the earth. (Gen. 12:1-3)

I'm not sure what the purpose of the question is? Possible to rephrase?

The promises to Abraham and to Israel when they received the Law and that Covenant, it pertains to this world and in the physical realm.......... not the kingdom of heaven. The second covenant opens the possibility of entering the Kingdom of Heaven and that's the huge difference.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

what is God's promise to Israel??? just what (in your own words) did he promise them?

Not sure if this is directed to me... But here it is again - God promised to Abraham a land, a great nation, a great name, and a blessing that would include all the families of the earth. (Gen. 12:1-3)

I'm not sure what the purpose of the question is? Possible to rephrase?

The promises to Abraham and to Israel when they received the Law and that Covenant, it pertains to this world and in the physical realm.......... not the kingdom of heaven. The second covenant opens the possibility of entering the Kingdom of Heaven and that's the huge difference.

I agree salvation is through the promise to Abraham. Israel is still God's chosen people though. ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What is so beautiful and so humbling about God, is that HE is the one who acts on OUR behalf (I say our because we are believers but in this sense I mean Israel as well) for the sake of His own name. He does this because He is God and cannot lie and therefore we can depend on Him to do what He said He will do. I'm not mixing up the covenants... only stating that regardless of who God is addressing, HE, GOD, does not change

I realize I have not specifically answered your questions GE, but I am aware of them and will probably get into that a bit later on if this thread hopefully does not get torpedoed, hijacked or otherwise derailed by personal non-biblical pet beliefs

then again, I could just post what I believe to be true without heated arguments .

I agree in bold that God is the key player in history and God is consistent in that His promised do not change.

I think you’re pretty solid Bbilically sevenseas. ;) Thanks for not trying to torpedo, hijack, etc. the thread. ;) Not that I’ve not done this myself to others or my own OP threads. Lol. ;)

Opinions can be shared for clarification. But between what our opinions are and what God says in the Bible we must always side with the Bible no?

God bless you sister!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this  

  • Similar Content

    • By Sojourner414
      Iran Fires Rockets Into Golan Heights From Syria
      From NY Times:
      (more)
      https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/09/world/middleeast/israel-iran-attack.html
    • By omharris
      I introduced a section within my first post in this series, as one of the most unbelievable scenarios you could read. In that section you have Rebekah and Jacob pulling off the deception of a lifetime, as Isaac is tricked into believing that Jacob was Esau merely by strapping a piece of sheepskin on Jacob's arm. I have to ask, have you ever seen sheep? They exceed the hair of man about 100 to one.
      While most would have run for their lives but not Jacob; and, I cannot give you any good reason why? As you see in Genesis 28:6-7, Isaac, after the deception, has instructed Jacob not to take a wife from the daughters of Canaan. After hearing this Jacob leaves toward Haran in order to comply and his mother goes with him. What just happened?
      Watch what Esau does.
      Genesis 28:6-7 NASB Now Esau saw that Isaac had blessed Jacob and sent him away to Paddan-aram to take to himself a wife from there, and that when he blessed him he charged him, saying, "You shall not take a wife from the daughters of Canaan," 7) and that Jacob had obeyed his father and his mother and had gone to Paddan-aram.
      This is the first time I noticed this aspect of the story. Note how it says, “and that Jacob had obeyed his father and his mother and had gone to Paddan-aram.” When you think about the reality of the situation and how furious Isaac should have been at Rebekah, then it makes all the sense in the world for her to with Jacob. Besides that, she may need to make the introductions and marriage arrangements for this favorite of sons.
      Esau, on the other hand, seeing how irritated his mother became about the women he married, (This is the same mother who deceived Isaac his father, and helped to cheat him out of his rightful inheritance,) went out and found himself a few more.
      Genesis 28:8-9 NASB So Esau saw that the daughters of Canaan displeased his father Isaac; 9) and Esau went to Ishmael, and married, besides the wives that he had, Mahalath the daughter of Ishmael, Abraham's son, the sister of Nebaioth.
      This next section focuses entirely on a dream that Jacob had.
      Indeed, it was a very vivid dream, in a manner similar to the dream that Abram had, it was as close to reality as you can come. You have to wonder how much understanding Jacob had about God, or where he got that understanding. The only thing we see is Isaac praying to the Lord in chapter 25. Isaac, being the son of Abraham, I can understand how and where he learned of the Lord, but the apparent influence on Jacob is not seen.
      Genesis 25:21-23 NASB Isaac prayed to the LORD on behalf of his wife, because she was barren; and the LORD answered him and Rebekah his wife conceived. 22) But the children struggled together within her; and she said, "If it is so, why then am I this way?" So she went to inquire of the LORD. 23) The LORD said to her, "Two nations are in your womb; And two peoples will be separated from your body; And one people shall be stronger than the other; And the older shall serve the younger."
      Jacob's Dream - Genesis 28:10-22
      But first Jacob has to kneel before his father, apparently at his father's demand.
      Genesis 28:1 NASB So Isaac called Jacob and blessed him and charged him, and said to him, "You shall not take a wife from the daughters of Canaan.
      This is the second time Jacob has been blessed, however, Isaac is well aware of the deceitful methods that were used on him. Without going any farther, I already see a prime example of the nature and character of God, as Isaac overlooks the “sin” and bestows a purposeful blessing upon Jacob.
      Blessed is the Hebrew word bāraḵ: A verb meaning to bless, kneel, salute, or greet. The verb derives from the noun knee and perhaps suggests the bending of the knee in blessing.
      Would we expect to see Isaac kneeling before Jacob at this point?
      Not a chance, so it is Jacob, this time with intention, kneeling before his father.
      Do you think it is possible that Isaac could bring some punishment upon this son?
      No, and again, this is an example of God's grace, as we too, caught in our sins, deserved punishment, but what happened? The Son Jesus took all punishment on our behalf.
      I am well aware that I have no key character, in this scenario, that takes the punishment for Jacob. What I do see, is Jacob suffering abuse, at not only the hand of Laban but his own sons when we get to them.
      Pay attention to what Isaac tells Jacob.
      Perspective: The flood has come and gone, and, with it, should have been the giants and the evil and violence that were associated not just with them, but people in general. And, secondly, this has taken place before Moses and prior to the law.
      Is that what happened?
      Not exactly, for men still had the right to choose how they would live, and the giants returned. Genesis 6:4 tells us that afterward, they showed up again. After what? The flood.
      “The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.” Genesis 6:4 NASB
      Two pieces of evidence for giants after the flood comes from Numbers 13:33 and 2Samuel 21:16, both of which speak of giants still permeating the land. Canaan was one of those places and we learn of it when Israel sent 12 men to spy out the Land of Canaan.
      “You shall not take a wife from the daughters of Canaan.”
      Do a word search and the first place Canaan shows up is in Genesis 9.
      Genesis 9:18-27 NASB Now the sons of Noah who came out of the ark were Shem and Ham and Japheth; and Ham was the father of Canaan. 19) These three were the sons of Noah, and from these the whole earth was populated. 20) Then Noah began farming and planted a vineyard. 21) He drank of the wine and became drunk, and uncovered himself inside his tent. 22) Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brothers outside. 23) But Shem and Japheth took a garment and laid it upon both their shoulders and walked backward and covered the nakedness of their father; and their faces were turned away, so that they did not see their father's nakedness. 24) When Noah awoke from his wine, he knew what his youngest son had done to him. 25) So he said, "Cursed be Canaan; A servant of servants He shall be to his brothers." 26) He also said, "Blessed be the LORD, The God of Shem; And let Canaan be his servant. 27) "May God enlarge Japheth, And let him dwell in the tents of Shem; And let Canaan be his servant."
      Notice how Canaan is pointed out as the son of Ham; this is not a favorable distinction.
      Genesis 28:2 NASB "Arise, go to Paddan-aram, to the house of Bethuel your mother's father; and from there take to yourself a wife from the daughters of Laban your mother's brother.
      The town of Bethuel gained it's origins in a man, as was the case with every city.
      Genesis 22:20-23 NASB Now it came about after these things, that it was told Abraham, saying, "Behold, Milcah also has borne children to your brother Nahor: 21) Uz his firstborn and Buz his brother and Kemuel the father of Aram 22) and Chesed and Hazo and Pildash and Jidlaph and Bethuel." 23) Bethuel became the father of Rebekah; these eight Milcah bore to Nahor, Abraham's brother.
      So here is your ancestry moment, It was told, Abraham:
      Milcah also has borne children to your brother Nahor
      Uz his firstborn and Buz his brother and Kemuel the father of Aram 22) and Chesed and Hazo and Pildash and Jidlaph and Bethuel."
      Kemuel produces a son Aram. Note the similarities to Paddan-aram!
      The son to be born to Nahor is Bethuel.
      Bethuel became the father of Rebekah
      Rebekah is the wife of Isaac, the mother of Esau and Jacob. This also means that Bethuel became the father of Laban.
      Jacob, still kneeling before his father Isaac, receives all these instructions and blessings; as though what he stole was not enough.
      Genesis 28:3-5 NASB "May God Almighty bless you and make you fruitful and multiply you, that you may become a company of peoples. 4) "May He also give you the blessing of Abraham, to you and to your descendants with you, that you may possess the land of your sojournings, which God gave to Abraham." 5) Then Isaac sent Jacob away, and he went to Paddan-aram to Laban, son of Bethuel the Aramean, the brother of Rebekah, the mother of Jacob and Esau.
      “ May God Almighty bless you and make you fruitful and multiply you, that you may become a company of peoples.”
      “May He also give you the blessing of Abraham, to you and to your descendants with you, that you may possess the land of your sojournings, which God gave to Abraham.”
      What were the blessings of Abraham?
      Genesis 12:1-3 NASB Now the LORD said to Abram, "Go forth from your country, And from your relatives And from your father's house, To the land which I will show you; 2) And I will make you a great nation, And I will bless you, And make your name great; And so you shall be a blessing; 3) And I will bless those who bless you, And the one who curses you I will curse. And in you all the families of the earth will be blessed."
      Genesis 17:6-8 NASB "I will make you exceedingly fruitful, and I will make nations of you, and kings will come forth from you. 7) "I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you throughout their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and to your descendants after you. 8) "I will give to you and to your descendants after you, the land of your sojournings, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God."
        I will make you a great nation
      I will bless you
      and make your name great
      I will bless those that bless you, and the one who curses you I will curse.
      In you, all the families of the earth will be blessed.
      I will make you exceedingly fruitful
      and I will make nations of you
      kings will come forth from you
      I will establish my covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you … for an everlasting covenant.
      Be a God to you and to your descendants.
      And, I will give you and your descendants … all the land of Canaan for an everlasting possession.
      So, tell me, is this what you say to someone who has just deceived you? And yet, this is exactly what Isaac just did. “May He also give you the blessing of Abraham, to you and to your descendants with you, that you may possess the land of your sojournings, which God gave to Abraham.”
      Genesis 28:10-11 NASB Then Jacob departed from Beersheba and went toward Haran. 11) He came to a certain place and spent the night there because the sun had set; and he took one of the stones of the place and put it under his head, and lay down in that place.
      Haran, isn't that the place where Abram was and God told him to go to a land that He would show him? Yes, it is. But it is also the place where so many things will take place, and now Jacob is going there to find himself a wife. Fortunately, Jacob has his mommy with him to make the introductions; although we are not told that, it works for the moment.
      Genesis 11:26-31 NASB Terah lived seventy years, and became the father of Abram, Nahor and Haran. 27) Now these are the records of the generations of Terah. Terah became the father of Abram, Nahor and Haran; and Haran became the father of Lot. 28) Haran died in the presence of his father Terah in the land of his birth, in Ur of the Chaldeans. 29) Abram and Nahor took wives for themselves. The name of Abram's wife was Sarai; and the name of Nahor's wife was Milcah, the daughter of Haran, the father of Milcah and Iscah. 30) Sarai was barren; she had no child. 31) Terah took Abram his son, and Lot the son of Haran, his grandson, and Sarai his daughter-in-law, his son Abram's wife; and they went out together from Ur of the Chaldeans in order to enter the land of Canaan; and they went as far as Haran, and settled there.
      Note this: “Terah took Abram his son, and Lot the son of Haran, his grandson, and Sarai his daughter-in-law, his son Abram's wife; and they went out together from Ur of the Chaldeans in order to enter the land of Canaan; and they went as far as Haran, and settled there.
      It seems God has His hands in everything, doesn't it?
      “He came to a certain place and spent the night there because the sun had set;”
      Genesis 28:19 NASB He called the name of that place Bethel; however, previously the name of the city had been Luz.
      “And he took one of the stones of the place and put it under his head, and lay down in that place.”
      Genesis 28:18-22 NASB So Jacob rose early in the morning, and took the stone that he had put under his head and set it up as a pillar and poured oil on its top. 19) He called the name of that place Bethel; however, previously the name of the city had been Luz. 20) Then Jacob made a vow, saying, "If God will be with me and will keep me on this journey that I take, and will give me food to eat and garments to wear, 21) and I return to my father's house in safety, then the LORD will be my God. 22) "This stone, which I have set up as a pillar, will be God's house, and of all that You give me I will surely give a tenth to You."
      God's house? This statement is immensely significant, and so is this, “and of all that You give me I will surely give a tenth to You.”
      Without any motivation of “law,” Jacob has made a commitment to tithe.
       
    • By Jonathan BeWell
       
      I read the entire "Christian's going to hell" thread and was about to jump in with my own reply.  I did not realize the limitations of this forum section.  I suppose that is fine.  I got a lot out of what was discussed but still struggle with some of it.  I get all the points of views, proof, beliefs and such.  I am not trying to call out or trap anyone.  I am a baby Christian and have honest questions for clarification.  I pray we can all come to an agreement on God's word and truth.
      I was hoping we could base the discussion on Matthew 25 ( https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=matthew+25&version=NIV ) and how it related to the thread I could not jump in on.  My question is this.  Does Matthew 25 add or take away from any and all posts made there by *everyone*? 
      I have more specific questions too.  The ten virgins for starters, do they not represent Christians covered in the blood of Jesus?  I am not clear on the oil in their lamps as well.  I suppose it could relate to my above general question.
      I am wrestling with all this.  I believe I am a born again Christian.  I have faith in my salvation.  I am concerned about others I care for and love.  I will elaborate and add more enquiries as this thread develops.  May opportunities open to know and understand the Holy Trinity better.  Be well, content and helpful in the Lord. 
    • By omharris
      What is it that makes us decide to trust and believe, not just God, but people?
      Everything we do as followers of Christ is wrapped around faith, the essence of trust and belief. However, there is added disincentive in the story of Rahab in that these two men who may have entered her house under false pretenses, have now enlightened her that they are spies; that her life is now in danger from the spies and the guards of Jericho. They point out that her only reasonable choice is to hide them, and she does.
      For us, there is a sudden awareness that her faith in this unknown god and her desire to be rescued by Him has become challenged. What does this added incentive do to your belief system?
      Ponder once again what Rahab tells the two Israeli spies.
      Joshua 2:9-10 NASB and said to the men, "I know that the LORD has given you the land, and that the terror of you has fallen on us, and that all the inhabitants of the land have melted away before you. 10) "For we have heard how the LORD dried up the water of the Red Sea before you when you came out of Egypt, and what you did to the two kings of the Amorites who were beyond the Jordan, to Sihon and Og, whom you utterly destroyed.
      At first, it is deeply personal as she says, “ I know that the LORD has given you the land and that the terror of you has fallen on us,” This paragraph has belief and fear written all over it. While I, Rahab, know that the Almighty has his hand on you, there is a profound and genuine concern on the part of the entire city for their safety, lives, and mine as well.
      Joshua 2:11 NASB "When we heard it, our hearts melted and no courage remained in any man any longer because of you; for the LORD your God, He is God in heaven above and on earth beneath.
      Does fear promote belief? I know it does not work for me. I may, under duress, comply out of concern for the safety of my family and myself, but I will never come to admire and possibly love you, as Rahab did.
      The reality is that God's most significant impact on our faith is through signs. The idea that God is okay with that, comes from the verse where she recaps the two notable stories of which the people Jericho were aware. “We have heard how the LORD dried up the water of the Red Sea before you when you came out of Egypt, and what you did to the two kings of the Amorites who were beyond the Jordan, to Sihon and Og, whom you utterly destroyed.”
      It is rapidly becoming evident that Rahab is a smart woman. You don't last long in such a business without the skills of a spy yourself, and she, therefore, strikes a bargain.
      Joshua 2:12-13 NASB "Now therefore, please swear to me by the LORD, since I have dealt kindly with you, that you also will deal kindly with my father's household, and give me a pledge of truth, 13) and spare my father and my mother and my brothers and my sisters, with all who belong to them, and deliver our lives from death."
      The men hear her out and respond with the words she needs to hear.
      Joshua 2:14 NASB So the men said to her, "Our life for yours if you do not tell this business of ours; and it shall come about when the LORD gives us the land that we will deal kindly and faithfully with you."
      Having received a promise of protection, and trusting their word, she provides them with a way of escape. I am going to do something peculiar here, and verse 15 last because I cannot see any practicality to her shouting additional instructions to the men as they rappel down the wall from her window.
      Joshua 2:15-21 NASB 16) She said to them, "Go to the hill country, so that the pursuers will not happen upon you, and hide yourselves there for three days until the pursuers return. Then afterward you may go on your way." 17) The men said to her, "We shall be free from this oath to you which you have made us swear, 18) unless, when we come into the land, you tie this cord of scarlet thread in the window through which you let us down, and gather to yourself into the house your father and your mother and your brothers and all your father's household. 19) "It shall come about that anyone who goes out of the doors of your house into the street, his blood shall be on his own head, and we shall be free; but anyone who is with you in the house, his blood shall be on our head if a hand is laid on him. 20) "But if you tell this business of ours, then we shall be free from the oath which you have made us swear."
      15) Then she let them down by a rope through the window, for her house was on the city wall so that she was living on the wall.
      21) She said, "According to your words, so be it." So she sent them away, and they departed, and she tied the scarlet cord in the window.
      The bargaining is completed. Rahab lets them out through a window and uses the same scarlet cord to signal Israel's troops that hers is a safe house.
      Suddenly it occurs to me. While the scarlet color may have been associated with her profession, it now represented that scarlet blood that saves us all. Few realize what took place. Consider also the tremendous significance, as Jesus was three days and nights in death, so to the scarlet rope hung from that window. Our redemption through Jesus was signaled all throughout this book we call the Bible, and today, I saw it.
      What would have happened had the townsfolk of Jericho saw that cord suddenly hanging there? With the armed militia out chasing the spies, did the town now feel safe? I doubt it. The city may have gone on lock-down. How did this rope go unnoticed? That can only be God.
      Did Rahab and her family demonstrate a strong faith in this God of Israel, and were therefore saved?
      We don't know any of that. Rahab took a chance and pitched her case, knowing full well that they could turn against her. If what she says is true, then the people within Jericho comprehend the threat that Israel poses. Finding out that two Israeli spies have infiltrated the city just raises the threat level exponentially. The result of the increased threat level is that the family, which may have treated her as an outcast, hurriedly gathered survival supplies and joined Rahab in her home.
      Joshua 2:23-24 NASB Then the two men returned and came down from the hill country and crossed over and came to Joshua the son of Nun, and they related to him all that had happened to them. 24) They said to Joshua, "Surely the LORD has given all the land into our hands; moreover, all the inhabitants of the land have melted away before us."
      Safely back at camp, they related all that had happened. What a story. Oh, and by-the-way Joshua, there is one more thing you might find interesting - “Surely the LORD has given all the land into our hands; moreover, all the inhabitants of the land have melted away before us.” At least that is what Rahab told us.
      Melted – is the Hebrew word moog, meaning to melt; literally (to soften, flow down, disappear), or figuratively (to fear, faint).
      Since this is a character study on Rahab, I am going to bypass much of the detail involved in the attack on Jericho. It is admittedly fascinating to learn how Jericho's walls fell. Having seen pictures of the archaeological digs at Jericho, it becomes apparent that they went straight down into the ground. Except for one spot, that portion that Rahab lived in. Joshua 6:20
      The NASB states that the wall fell flat. What does that mean? The Hebrew word is taḥaṯ: A preposition meaning under, beneath; in place of. It indicates a position below or underneath some other reference point.” Word Study Dictionary.
      While the word flat is indeed an option, how do you explain under, beneath or a position below, especially when the passage goes on to say that every man walked straight ahead?
      We don't return to Jericho in the book of Joshua until chapter six. In the meantime, circumcisions have been performed, and Israel has passed through the Jordan on dry land, just as they did the Red Sea. This time they placed a large mound of stones to commemorate God's goodness and what a coincidence that a large mound of stones has been located in the Sea of Galilee.
      I suppose the obvious thing to consider here, is that much time has passed and that scarlet cord is probably still hanging out that window.
      Joshua 6:21-23 NASB They utterly destroyed everything in the city, both man, and woman, young and old, and ox and sheep and donkey, with the edge of the sword. 22) Joshua said to the two men who had spied out the land, "Go into the harlot's house and bring the woman and all she has out of there, as you have sworn to her." 23) So the young men who were spies went in and brought out Rahab and her father and her mother and her brothers and all she had; they also brought out all her relatives and placed them outside the camp of Israel.
      How befitting that the young men who made the agreement should go and gather Rahab and her family.
      “Rahab and her father and her mother and her brothers and all she had; they also brought out all her relatives and placed them outside the camp of Israel.”
      Albert Barnes commentary states, “These words literally “made to rest outside the camp of Israel” - indicate that being still in their paganism, they were separated from the camp of the Lord. This was only for a time. They desired, and eventually obtained, admission to the covenant of the chosen people of God.”
      Another instance where we have no details. We know nothing about paganism, but it is probably safe to assume. Since Rahab seems to have a faith in this God she knows little about, we shall see her come to understanding and acceptance.
      Joshua 6:25 NASB However, Rahab the harlot and her father's household and all she had, Joshua spared; and she has lived in the midst of Israel to this day, for she hid the messengers whom Joshua sent to spy out Jericho.
      And everyone lived happily ever after, well, I would hope so. Sadly we live in reality, but there are three other passages I want you to see.
      In spelling out the Jewish heritage of Jesus, the gospel of Matthew includes Rahab.
      Matthew 1:5 NASB Salmon was the father of Boaz by Rahab, Boaz was the father of Obed by Ruth, and Obed the father of Jesse.
      Boaz, if you remember, owned the land in which Ruth had been directed to work by Naomi, her mother in law. Boaz buys the right to marry Ruth, and they produced a child named Obed, and Obed became the father of Jesse, the father of David.
      Rahab is found in Hebrews 11 because of her faith.
      Hebrews 11:31 NASB By faith Rahab the harlot did not perish along with those who were disobedient after she had welcomed the spies in peace.
      And lastly, as an example of how faith works, we have the writings of James.
      James 2:24-25 NASB You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone. 25) In the same way, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way?
      Understanding the ramifications, Rahab accepted the spies, protected them, and sent them safely on their way. So, Rahab then becomes an example for us, of faith and how it works.
    • By omharris
      This was part of a series of character studies that I recently posted online.
      My interest in Rahab started long ago, as I heard the stories, but rarely ever read the story for myself. If you follow my posts, then you would know that I have gone through some dark times. I suspect that the sentence, "train up a child in the way that they should go" played a role in this freedom and understanding that I now have, for I knew that I needed to plant my heart and mind firmly in God's word. Sadly, when I started doing that, I found myself bored and confused; it was difficult to focus, and I kept hearing this voice in my head, saying, I have read this before. Anguished by this lack of motivation I talked bluntly and plainly to God about the situation, and I asked Him to make Himself real to me. I don't remember when my attitude changed, but it was shortly after that prayer. Soon after, I found myself seeing these Bible characters as real, with flesh and blood. Things quickly changed and I could see them struggle just you and I do.
      Rahab was one of those characters. It has been several years since I last looked at Rahab, but my interest resurfaced recently as our men's group watched and listened to Francis Chan teach on the book of James, a book that references Rahab and her faith.
      Look at what James had to say about the dear lady.
      James 2:25 In the same way, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way?
      As typical with men, there is the subtle laughter as they try to adjust their thinking to accept the fact God would use someone like a whore. I cannot remember the question asked, but I immediately began talking about this amazing woman and what she did. I then asked, how would I know any of those things, because I read through the Bible; that, and I have studied these characters multiple times as they are integrated into our lives as believers, at every turn.
      This story of Rahab, like most everything else in scripture, has a background, and for us, that background comes primarily from the camp of Israel. So let's quickly look at that.
      Moses has died, and the leadership role is now being passed to Joshua.
      The entire first chapter of Joshua is essentially a directive to be strong, but there is an astounding statement that seems to make them invincible.
      Joshua 1:3 CJB I am giving you every place you will step on with the sole of your foot, as I said to Moshe (Moses).
      The connotation is, in battle. Consider how they, through the ten spies, step on the land of Canaan. Did they completely take the land God spoke of? No, and yet, in the long run, God's word is still valid, for the ground has been given to Israel. (Still today, there is bitter disagreement and fighting over this.)
      Chapter one ends with a uniform agreement on the part of Israel's fighting forces.
      Joshua 1:17-18 NASB "Just as we obeyed Moses in all things, so we will obey you; only may the LORD your God be with you as He was with Moses. 18) "Anyone who rebels against your command and does not obey your words in all that you command him, shall be put to death; only be strong and courageous."
      I am not sure how to perceive this. Would the fighting men kill anyone that resisted one of Joshua's directives? The next plan we see is this,
      Joshua 1:10-11 NASB Then Joshua commanded the officers of the people, saying, 11) "Pass through the midst of the camp and command the people, saying, 'Prepare provisions for yourselves, for within three days you are to cross this Jordan, to go in to possess the land which the LORD your God is giving you, to possess it.'"
      I always assumed that Jericho was one of the first cities Israel conquered, however, when you look at a map which indicates the traditional path that Israel took into the promise land. The chart shows them traversing north along the Eastern side of the Jordan and then crossing above the Sea of Galilee and then dropping down south on the Western side of the Jordan, into Jericho.
      As a visual learner, I now have the placement of Jericho square in my thinking, and it is the next stop.
      Joshua 2:1 NASB Then Joshua the son of Nun sent two men as spies secretly from Shittim, saying, "Go, view the land, especially Jericho." So they went and came into the house of a harlot whose name was Rahab and lodged there.
      This ugly tale is where we first meet Rahab. Without a doubt, our introduction leaves something to be desired, as she is a harlot. What are the problems with this introduction? We immediately start assigning personality traits, personal habits, and a lack of intelligence and integrity; all of which are things we cannot discern as yet.
      Let's start dissecting this.
      “then Joshua the son of Nun sent two men as spies secretly from Shittim, saying, "Go, view the land, especially Jericho.”
      Jericho was not the only thing on their list. The more they moved through the land, the greater their chances of being seen. The idea that Jericho was the top of Joshua's list was evident.
      Secretly is the Hebrew word cheresh, and can also mean silently.
      Webster's dictionary tells us that secretly is defined as: Privately; privily; not openly; without the knowledge of others.
      “So they went and came into the house of a harlot whose name was Rahab,”
      You are a stranger, in a strange land, and, you may not speak or read the same language, yet, you come into the house of a harlot. Think about that for a moment. I brought this up before the men that morning. A short time later, one of the men pushed his electronic pad at me. On it, was an etching found in stone, in front of a building that had been dug out of the ashes of Pompeii. It was overtly sexual and easily identifiable. It required no additional explanation, and the implications could easily mean a house of whoredoms.
      Working from the premise that we have no other information to build this story on, there is NOTHING in scripture that defines how the spies would have known this.
      If we lack documented, historical information, then all we have is conjecture, and sadly, inference opens the door to Rahab pandering these new men in town. Taking this debauchery one step further; what is there that explains why the two spies were going into her house? I want to believe that they were above self-indulgence, but it cannot be ruled out.
      You should be thinking along the same lines as I am, about now. While finding a friendly voice in a strange place might be considered a Godsend, the spies still need to investigate, and this would allow them to move about freely for a short time. Quickly, they explained the grave nature of their business and how quickly they could kill her. But then, they are trying to gain an ally and temporary safety.
      “and lodged there.”
      Lodge is Hebrew word shâkab and means to lie down (for rest, sexual connection, decease or any other purpose.)
      The intent is not to pass on more twisted thinking, but to make a point. We have sterilized God's word to the point that we cannot see that these were people, with frailties, just as we all have. If you follow the scriptural text, you will not see judgment coming from God about their actions. However far this went is none of our business, but in our quick judgments and condemnations, we dispatch people, like Judas Iscariot, to hell, while condoning the actions of these men. After all, it was war.
      Joshua 2:2 MKJV And the king of Jericho was told about it, saying, Behold, men from the sons of Israel came in here tonight, to search out the country.
      Apparently, someone had seen them and knew where they came from. What was even worse, is that the Israelis had been seen going into Rahab's house on the wall.
      Joshua 2:3 MKJV And the king of Jericho sent to Rahab, saying, Bring out the men that have come to you, those who have entered into your house. For they have come to search out all the country.
      The king has sent messengers, probably armed guards, willing to kill. The demand is to bring out the men that come to you. Okay, here is where things get a little confused.
      Joshua 2:4 CJB However, the woman, after taking the two men and hiding them, replied, "Yes, the men did come to me; but I didn't know where they had come from.
      Think about what just happened. Messengers, capable of killing you, demand that you bring out the men that came into the home.
      You want me to believe that the guards just stood outside and waited for her to return?
      But what if she was aware that this entourage was coming, would she hide them before they started knocking?
      So, she, knowing that they want these men, hides them and lies about where they are. Her statement, “ Yes, the men did come to me; but I didn't know where they had come from.” To some degree this statement was right It wasn't long before they revealed their mission to her. Consider how she with minimal information, made a life-changing decision to believe the Israeli spies.
      She continues the deception.
      Joshua 2:5 CJB “The men left around the time when they shut the gate, when it was dark. Where they went I don't know; but if you chase after them quickly, you will overtake them.”
      The Israelis were still in the house.
      Joshua 2:6 CJB Actually she had brought them up to the roof and hidden them under some stalks of flax she had spread out there.
      Does it make sense that they would merely take her word, No, or why else would she hide them under the flax?
      Joshua 2:7 CJB The men pursued them all the way to the fords at the Yarden; as soon as the pursuit party had left, the gate was shut.
      Not finding them, the king's messengers go in pursuit.
      Joshua 2:8 CJB The two men had not yet lain down when she returned to the roof.
      As we wandered through the book section at our local warehouse store, I looked at a devotional journal that focused on women of the Bible. Rahab was listed, as she should be, but the author's version of the story was what we come to expect when tradition rules our thinking; as it conflicted with what the Bible says.
      How easy it is to twist a story.
      Joshua 2:9-11 NASB and said to the men, "I know that the LORD has given you the land, and that the terror of you has fallen on us, and that all the inhabitants of the land have melted away before you. 10) "For we have heard how the LORD dried up the water of the Red Sea before you when you came out of Egypt, and what you did to the two kings of the Amorites who were beyond the Jordan, to Sihon and Og, whom you utterly destroyed. 11) "When we heard it, our hearts melted and no courage remained in any man any longer because of you; for the LORD your God, He is God in heaven above and on earth beneath.
      Without this information, we could never adequately understand what transpired that made her heart turn toward the God of Israel.
      What did she tell us?
      I know that the LORD has given you the land.
      This statement is a verbal demonstration of her acceptance.
      That the terror of you has fallen on us, and that all the inhabitants of the land have melted away before you.
      We see terminology like this all throughout the Bible. And yet, when you read the biblical stories, you come to find that in reality it means quite a few. The number is significant enough to be on the alert for spies.
      For we have heard how the LORD dried up the water of the Red Sea before you when you came out of Egypt.
      Consider how many, choose to dispute or deny, the Red Sea crossing. Here is this woman, whom many would disregard, spelling out a common understanding and belief about Israel's passage through the Red Sea, on dry land.
      What you did to the two kings of the Amorites who were beyond the Jordan, Sihon, and Og, whom you utterly destroyed.
      And lastly, the most impactful statement of all of them.
      When we heard it, our hearts melted and no courage remained in any man any longer because of you; for the LORD your God, He is God in heaven above and on earth beneath.
      When it comes to making a confession of who God is in your life, this would be it. Having written recently about Jonah, one of the things we learn of, is that Jonah was a sign. Can you see that God's guidance and actions have been signs?
      Many of you are aware of Rahab already. You may also be mindful that she becomes an integral aspect of the lineage of Jesus, our King.
      In spite of ugly titles or your bad reputation, the God who knows the beginning from the end will find a way to draw you into the kingdom. You could not convince me that this woman did not have a changed heart; a change we like to call salvation. Soon, the action will get more intense as Israel, following God's directions, marches around the wall. This amazing woman will continue to play a miraculous role.
×