MISCONCEPTION: The Seven Year Tribulation

[Bold Believer]

If you proved me in error, I'd tell you so. But you haven't. All you've done is parrot the teachings of Darby. Darby was wrong. All those who've come along SINCE Darby are wrong as well. Also, you DO need to write proper English. How will anyone understand you if your sentences run on forever and have poor punctuation? If you don't care, well, that's on you.

[Bold Believer]

If you proved me in error, I'd tell you so. But you haven't. All you've done is parrot the teachings of Darby. Darby was wrong. All those who've come along SINCE Darby are wrong as well. Also, you DO need to write proper English. How will anyone understand you if your sentences run on forever and have poor punctuation? If you don't care, well, that's on you.

Simple concept ,,"and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast." the reference here is that the worlds people are amazed that the dead came back to life and with great power and authority ...

No Daniel, as I mentioned in my previous post, coming back to life is never mentioned in the passage. That has been inserted by people who are reading something else into the text that isn't there.

3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

4 And they worshiped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshiped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

Remember also the world wonders after the Beast. The Beast is the Empire, not Nero. It was the Empire that went into disarray before a new Emperor. Almost the entire civilized world was ruled by Rome at the time and the Empire's subjects marveled that the Empire didn't crumble to pieces at the death of a major leader. "Nobody is greater than Rome!" is the sentiment here. "Nobody can make war against the Empire (which is just what the factions were doing)."

people are often called clinically dead and are revived and continue to live life...but all the worlds people do not worship them as they do the man of sin

The man of sin? Really? Where is the man of sin mentioned here? Here we go again, putting something into the text which is NOT THERE.

Christ Jesus throws the antichrist ALIVE INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE that burns forever nonstop. Nero was not cast alive into the Lake of Fire ,, nero was not the antichrist ,,

Well, you got one right. Nero was not the antichrist. The reason Nero is not the antichrist is because John didn't use the term antichrist until somewhere between 85 and 96, nearly 25-30 years after Nero's death on June 9, 68.

,when all scriptures are included it reveals that the man of sin( which at that moment who is very well liked by all the people who helped this man get into office to hold his position ; and confirms, is involved with bringing to pass the 7 year peace treaty with Israel , the man is very popluar with the country's people , they really like him a lot , as he has not suffered the fatal woundyet ) then after he does he becomes a evil man with satan incarnate within him ..Now he begins his evil rule and demands all people of all nations ,and all laguages worship him,,,nero did not rule over every nation every language on earth, Nero did not do that ,,,

Every Roman emperor ruled over every nation and language in the civilized world.

Where did anyone bring real physical consuming fire down from heaven that was in Nero power.

It was not within Nero's authority to bring down fire from heaven, it was within the authority of the Land-Beast. "Bringing down fire from heaven" is a euphemism for worship. It comes from I Kings 1:10 and 12, where Elijah says: If I am a man of God, let fire come down from heaven and consume you and your fifty."

Revelation 13

¹³ And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

Elijah the Prophet (1 Kings 18....a literal consuming fire !)had a contest to see who could do it , and only HE did with God providing this result ,, no one else was able to it .....in Revelation it is satan doing it to counterfiet the LORD in order to convince the people that he is God ,, it is part of the deception that God allows to punish the wicked non believers that reject Christ and show that Only Christ Jesus is LORD

Correct. Which was proof that God was behind it, allowing the deception that the Roman Emperors should be worshiped.

You still cannot see that the One World Government for the entire earth is forming ,,,all events preceeding the coming of Christ are in process now,,.. a digital monetary system is being established where ALL people on Earth will have to partake of a digital numbering system in order to buy or sell anything,,,it is happening now ,, to make this 'earth wide over' system takes time ,but is rapidily coming to pass,, in this generation,,,and all, the other events that must take place to fulfill scripture are getting close to being finished; as well as some things that have not begun yet ...things you refuse to acknowledge simply cause they totally defeat this crazy notion you have ,, you insist on ignoring many scriptures that defeat this crazy idea you have ,,,it would be simple logic that IF you really want the true truth you would acknowledge ALL scripture,, but you flat out refuse to

LOL. Governments are collapsing worldwide. Europe is coming apart at the seams, the Middle East is aflame with inter-nicene conflict, the United States is tottering on financial collapse and you say a one world government is coming? You can't get two countries on the planet anywhere to agree on jack-spit. The idea that a one world government is coming is an absolute joke. The only one-world anything out here is Gog leading Magog to battle against the Church.

Many things that you do not grasp properly ,,,the antichrist is a powerful person ,that has total control over the governmental system , no one but God has more power...there is NO reason whatsoever that would compel a man of that level of power to commit suicide ...the reason nero committed suicide is soley to avoid public humiliation of being flogged to death by men , appointed by the senate ,, it was nero cowardly way out of being publicly humiliated by being put to death by being flogged to death at the hands of others... '

often the beast is a kingdom or government , but sometimes satan is reffered to as the beast,,

the horns of the beasts are kings .. literal human kings ,, government leaders ,,it is one of the heads

the dragon is satan , also called the beast ,, you are trying to limit the matter to scriptures that you choose and the others you choose to exclude ,,

Where did anyone bring real physical consuming fire down from heaven that was in nero power??

Revelation 13

¹³And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

Elijah the Prophet (1 Kings 18....a literal consuming fire !)had a contest to see who could do it , and only HE did with God providing this result ,, no one else was able to it .....in Revelation it is satan doing it to counterfiet the LORD in order to convince the people that he is God ,, it is part of the deception that God allows to punish the wicked non believers that reject Christ and show that Only Christ Jesus is LORD

1 Kings 18

22 Then Elijah said to them, “I am the only one of the Lord’s prophets left, but Baal has four hundred and fifty prophets. 23 Get two bulls for us. Let Baal’s prophets choose one for themselves, and let them cut it into pieces and put it on the wood but not set fire to it. I will prepare the other bull and put it on the wood but not set fire to it. 24 Then you call on the name of your god, and I will call on the name of the Lord. The god who answers by fire—he is God.”

Then all the people said, “What you say is good.”

25 Elijah said to the prophets of Baal, “Choose one of the bulls and prepare it first, since there are so many of you. Call on the name of your god, but do not light the fire.” 26 So they took the bull given them and prepared it.

Then they called on the name of Baal from morning till noon. “Baal, answer us!” they shouted. But there was no response; no one answered. And they danced around the altar they had made.

27 At noon Elijah began to taunt them. “Shout louder!” he said. “Surely he is a god! Perhaps he is deep in thought, or busy, or traveling. Maybe he is sleeping and must be awakened.” 28 So they shouted louder and slashed themselves with swords and spears, as was their custom, until their blood flowed. 29 Midday passed, and they continued their frantic prophesying until the time for the evening sacrifice. But there was no response, no one answered, no one paid attention.

30 Then Elijah said to all the people, “Come here to me.” They came to him, and he repaired the altar of the Lord, which had been torn down. 31 Elijah took twelve stones, one for each of the tribes descended from Jacob, to whom the word of the Lord had come, saying, “Your name shall be Israel.” 32 With the stones he built an altar in the name of the Lord, and he dug a trench around it large enough to hold two seahs[a] of seed. 33 He arranged the wood, cut the bull into pieces and laid it on the wood. Then he said to them, “Fill four large jars with water and pour it on the offering and on the wood.”

34 “Do it again,” he said, and they did it again.

“Do it a third time,” he ordered, and they did it the third time. 35 The water ran down around the altar and even filled the trench.

36 At the time of sacrifice, the prophet Elijah stepped forward and prayed: “Lord, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Israel, let it be known today that you are God in Israel and that I am your servant and have done all these things at your command. 37 Answer me, Lord, answer me, so these people will know that you, Lord, are God, and that you are turning their hearts back again.”

38 Then the fire of the Lord fell and burned up the sacrifice, the wood, the stones and the soil, and also licked up the water in the trench.

³⁹ And when all the people saw it, they fell on their faces: and they said, The Lord, he is the God; the Lord, he is the God.

simply NOT a eupenism ,,again you refuse to acknowledge what scripture teaches..

You need to truly understand the scripture is a literal fire coming down from heaven ,, not some euphemism for worship as you want to think for that is making a false assumption that is not true,, real fire came down from heaven for Elijah the prophet,, it is real and you fail to understand the meaning of

¹³And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

very simple to understand ,, it is a literal fire that comes down from heaven "in the sight of men"

people can see with their eyes this fire coming down from heaven ,, another reason why the nations marvel/wonder after him and say :"who can wage war with him?" since there is no weaponry that can compete with a man that has such power as to bring fire down from heaven on demand

the antichrist is a man controlled by satan incarnate within him .. satan literally operating within a man, not just a demon spirit,, the man of sin...

Description of the antichrist

2 Thessalonians 2:1-12

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Revelation 13

4 And they worshiped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

revelation 19

19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

the antichrist..the son of perdition aka son of destruction,, the man of sin , man of lawlessness are all the same person , just various references of the same man

scripture in no way shape or form limits the matter to the "civilized world " that is your misinterpretation ,,, rather it states specificalLY Every Tribe , Every Tongue/language, Every Nation, ALL of them ,, the entire planet of nations .. your crazy idea that this whole matter of sin vs. pureness of salvation,, good vs. evil ,, the whole topic is limited to just a few nations in the eastern world is simply ludicrous ,, it pertains to 100% of ALL nations on earth,, just as Christ instructed to go out to all nations on earth to preach this gospel and make disciples of all nations..."..and then the end of the age will come" and Not beforehand....which shows that this matter has not yet been fulfilled and is still to come ,,

it has been declared by the most powerful organizations that all the worlds people be bew implanted witha RFID transponder by no later than 2017 ,, obama wants America done by 2013 ...so it is revealing that this will happen in the near future ,, alowing for tracking of people.

The one world religion is forming as well ,, but those like you refuse to see what is coming,, learn about Chrislam ,, the joining of some so called Christian churches with Islam and they allow for other religions to unite with them as well, ,, True Christianity cannot be united with any other god ,,

Just because you choose not to learn about how almost all nations on earth are NOW planning or already partners with the New World Order ,, a One world Government system ,,,and for just the reasons you stated ,.,it will all come together soon ,, those are reasons why so many nations are deciding that it be better to have a unified nation of government all united together ,, the global finanicial meltdown among other reasons are bringing nations together on this matter ,, but still you can't see with your closed eyes ,, all this is so very easy to find proof for .. but I don't have the time to show it all to you , but it is there to learn about If you actually wanted to learn of it ,

here is just one of several posts where you are shown to be in error ,,,and you refuse to admit it

I have never read anything of Darby and you will never find any posts pf mine that speak of his teachings....you just look for excuses to avoid the truth...when people show you proof you should learn from it ,,,just as you stated that a literal fire never came down from heaven, I give proof in scripture,Where is your admitting that you were wrong?

You are wrong in your concept of nero fulfilling scripture , you are in error among many topics but since you are indoctrinated in false teachings you are unable to accept truth, especially when your false brand of truth is shown to be full of error

other people prove you in error as well , you only get angry when your error is shown

I see not only that you need to write proper English, you need to learn to read it as well. I never stated that fire didn't come down from heaven. I said it was the PRIESTS (which compose the Land-Beast) who have the authority to bring it down, not the first beast. The facts stand for themselves. You don't understand a word of what I wrote in the post you quoted. So let me help you:

Nero is the PERSONFICATION of the First Beast. As Washington's or Lincoln's or Kennedy's name in their times signified America, so the name of Nero signified Rome. Nero being one of the heads, he died of a fatal wound and the absence of leadership cast the Roman Empire into a civil war. It seemed that the Empire might collapse, but another head came along and Rome (the Beast) continued on. This is what prompts the saying: "Who can make war against the Beast?" Even the loss of a leader couldn't destroy the Empire.

The second beast (or Land Beast) is the one which had power to bring fire down from heaven in the sight of men. This is what occurred at a PROPER sacrifice in the Old Testament. Fire would come down in the sight of the people and consume the offering. Elijah was NOT a priest. Only priests have the authority to bring down fire on the sacrifices by doing it in the proper manner. Elijah did what he did by the permission of God, even though he was a prophet. Had he NOT had permission from God, his fate would have been that of Nadab and Abihu in Lev 10:1 & 2. That was not a normal circumstance. Prophets don't bring down from heaven, priests do. The High Priest and those priests under him had that authority. The Scripture here merely means that these priests directed worship to Rome, which would be strange fire (and in the end, fire destroyed them).

[AlexanderJ]

Lots of heat is being generated; but not much light. Edited November 25, 2012 by AlexanderJ

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, Montana Marv.

BB

You stated above: Quote: Well, I see where you have made one of your mistakes Daniel, an easy one to make. It is the week that is a seven, not the covenant. The covenant's length and purpose are not mentioned. Only that Messiah will confirm it during the one week. Messiah causes sacrifice and oblation to cease at the halfway point of the 70th week. How? By his atoning death and subsequent resurrection. The sacrifices and oblations no longer are efficacious (effective against sin) because the actual has come to replace forever the type and shadow.

You state that the covenant's length and purpose are not mentioned, YET, you say HOW; By his atoning death and resurrection. (Which is the Purpose) If it's purpose is not given, How do you back up what you said. There is no Scriptural evidence that Christ made any covenant immediately after His Baptism, and thus 3 1/2 years later he died. And thus one cannot tie Christ to the "He shall confirm a covenant", it is not there.

You also state the the covenants length is not mentioned; But then you say that it is to Replace Forever. You are contridicting yourself.

Scripture says: he shall confrim a covenant with may FOR (how long) One Seven. The two are tied together. This "he" does not refer to Christ, for He made no such covenant. Then if He did, which part of His ministry did He make it and what specific Scripture will back up this covenant. For it better fall within your timeline.

In Christ

Montana Marv

Read this carefully: Yeshua` did not MAKE a covenant! He didn't NEED to! He "STRENGTHENED" a covenant to many by submitting to be baptised and thus procurring God's blessing on His offer of the Kingdom. When the Father said, "This is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased," He ENDORSED Yeshua` as HIS "Messiah" - HIS "Choice" - to be KING! The "he" in Dani'el 9:27 DOES refer to the Messiah, the Christ!

It is therefore the Davidic Covenant that was strengthened in Yeshua`s offer. Pay no attention to those who make the claim of the it being the New Covenant. They have not researched background or the beginnings of the New Covenant.

[Montana Marv]

Roy

I take neither as the covenant which is strengtened. In 2 Sam 7, David's Covenant Forever. v12 - I will raise up your offspring to succeed you, who will come from your own body, and I will establish his kingdom. v13b - and I will establish the throne of his kingdom Forever. v25 - And now, Lord God, keep Forever, the promise you have made concerning your servant (David) and his house.

If the Davidic Kingdom is to be Forever as was told to Nathan by the Lord. Forever then does not need to be strengthened. I will establish the throne of his kingdom Forever. This is a very, very, very, very strong, strong, strong, strong statement. This is Absolute.

BTW, Christ will not be sitting on the Throne of David until after Christs Second Coming. This will be Forever.

I don't buy what you are trying to reveal.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[missmuffet]

I believe their will be a full 7 year tribulation.And yes it will be Jesus Christ who is coming back for the Church in the Rapture.

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, Montana Marv.

Roy

I take neither as the covenant which is strengtened. In 2 Sam 7, David's Covenant Forever. v12 - I will raise up your offspring to succeed you, who will come from your own body, and I will establish his kingdom. v13b - and I will establish the throne of his kingdom Forever. v25 - And now, Lord God, keep Forever, the promise you have made concerning your servant (David) and his house.

If the Davidic Kingdom is to be Forever as was told to Nathan by the Lord. Forever then does not need to be strengthened. I will establish the throne of his kingdom Forever. This is a very, very, very, very strong, strong, strong, strong statement. This is Absolute.

BTW, Christ will not be sitting on the Throne of David until after Christs Second Coming. This will be Forever.

I don't buy what you are trying to reveal.

In Christ

Montana Marv

Aw... be honest. You just don't UNDERSTAND what I'm trying to reveal. That's okay; I get it.

[OneLight]

About when the rapture will occur is not simple at all and very unclear in scripture to us all, that is until once decides for themselves what they are going to accept as the answer, then to them, it is simple.

I personally do not believe the rapture will occur before the 7 years begin. There is just too much scripture showing His church still being active after the beginning. I see this event sometime after the first 3 1/2 years to the end of the 7 years. Exactly when, I admit that I do not know. What I do know is that we need to be ready to be with Him always, for we don't know when we will die.The only time anyone will be able to say with certainty when the rapture occurred is after it occurs.

[OneLight]

What you think we have to suffer because the Blood did not cover enough

That sure is a negative way to look at His protection through times of trouble. You say you have studied the Mid and Post trib camps, then what is it they say about the trials and tribulation of the 7 years? How do they believe they will go through it unscathed, since they also agree that we are not meant to receive Gods wrath?

[OneLight]

Onelight:

That sure is a negative way to look at His protection through times of trouble. You say you have studied the Mid and Post trib camps, then what is it they say about the trials and tribulation of the 7 years? How do they believe they will go through it unscathed, since they also agree that we are not meant to receive Gods wrath?

Brother, You have already read what I said about this. There is absolutely no place your gonna hide when that first trumpet is blown. I don't see the Wrath of God as some inconvenient weather patterns on the earth. God literally wipes most of mankind from the face of the earth. Now where you plan to hang out?[ Who knows. There would be absolutely no reason for you to hang out during the Tribulation. Nobody here preaches the gospel, the church is not even mentioned from Rev 3-21. You have 144,000 that carry the testimony of Jesus, one angel the tells of the good news, but warns of the impending doom. We are not even used.

Have you noticed when the first trumpet is blown? Between the 6th and 7th seal is when the 144000 are sealed and John is shown a great multitude of people that nobody can number from the great tribulation. Scripture places the trumpets toward the very end of the tribulation. As I had stated before, I am not a pre trib believer. I believe we are taken somewhere toward the end, but if we remain through the trumpets, God will protect us.

Hide? Are you so afraid that He cannot protect His people from His wrath that you think we need to hide? Did the Hebrews hide from the plagues that came upon Egypt or were they affected by them? Did Noah have to flee from the flood or did he, out of obedience to God, find deliverance? We are his vessels to do His work here until He returns. Is He so weak that He will not protect His own during the times He brings wrath to those who reject Him? We will not feel Gods wrath nor need to hide from it..

1 Thessalonians 5:8-10

But let us who are of the day be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet the hope of salvation. For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him.

1 Thessalonians 1:9-10

For they themselves declare concerning us what manner of entry we had to you, and how you turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God, and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.

Romans 5:9

Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him.

His wrath is for the unrighteous.

Colossians 3:5-7

Therefore put to death your members which are on the earth: fornication, uncleanness, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry. Because of these things the wrath of God is coming upon the sons of disobedience, in which you yourselves once walked when you lived in them.

Ephesians 5:5-7

For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. Therefore do not be partakers with them.

We can't be under the hand of Satan. The Mark of the beast. The gates of hell don't stand against God's full anointed Church. We have delivered from the powers of darkness. Greater in us, is greater than any devil. The only thing holding back complete lawlessness is that where sin abounds, Grace abound more, and it abounds more because we are the current light on the planet. The light needs to be removed, for the Antichrist to function.

2 Thessalonians 2:7

For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way.

There is no mention of any people being taken out of the way, but that God instructs "He who now restrains" ( who I believe is the Holy Spirit) to allow the lawless one to be reveled. It is my belief that the pretrib understanding of this verse is incorrect. They take this to mean that the church is raptured then, but this is half way through the 7 years. By the way, you are moving backwards in time with your explanation.

Brother, I know you believe that somehow God just puts a bubble around 3 billion Christians, but Revelation never mentions this. It does mention who is protected and when, like those that received the seal from the angle on their forehead are protected from those flying stinging creatures. We are sealed by the Holy Spirit, not angel, and not on our foreheads.

A bubble? This seems to be a habit of yours to degrade what others believe He will do when you disagree with humor. Was there a bubble around the Hebrews in Egypt or Noah? I really do not find your attempt at humor funny at all.

The locus were to to harm all those men who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads. It seems that is going to happen at the very end of the 7 years. See above

There is a belief though by most post-trib people that they have to face some wrath of big, bad Satan. Some type of proving or testing like the Catholic purgatory. I am not saying your in that group. I am just saying that the period of Tribulation is far worse than anyone can imagine and you don't have to watch it from Earth.

I am not of this group. I refer you to my first reply.