bornagain2011 Posted December 9, 2012 Group: Senior Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 82 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 602 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 233 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/15/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted December 9, 2012 No offense but I find it funny how atheists believe that they can put infront of us "evidence" for macroevolution and we would just say "oh! You are right! I guess there is no God after all, silly me!" well, that would be like someone coming up to me saying "here is proof your mother doesn't exist" I would laugh in their face because I KNOW my mother and I KNOW my Heavenly Father! To me there is no difference! They are both KNOWABLE to me! I have a relationship with both. We do not believe in Islam for the same reasons we don't believe in Mormonism, it clearly says in the Bible that one is not to take anything out of the Bible or add anything to the Bible. Islam believes in the first part of the Bible, but disregards the rest, or believes it to be something it isn't. Mormons believe the Bible "if it is correctly interpreted", basically they pick and choose what they want to believe based on what their Elders are telling them at the moment....something like that! So what if people have DNA that could create a tail, that doesn't prove macroevolution. But, I also understand that we are dealing with differing worldviews, and one cannot change someone elses' worldview in an arguement, they become hostile and put up a wall. It takes God to open someone's eyes to the Truth. It does happen though. I used to be a hardcore evolutionist and would debate with creationists so I know all the arguments for the other side. It wasn't until I found out that Jesus did infact exist and was who He said He was that my worldview came crumbling down. I will keep watching this thread to see what else pops up as 'evidence' Shalom Natalie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevenseas Posted December 9, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 30 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,373 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 683 Days Won: 22 Joined: 02/28/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted December 9, 2012 No offense but I find it funny how atheists believe that they can put infront of us "evidence" for macroevolution and we would just say "oh! You are right! I guess there is no God after all, silly me!" well, that would be like someone coming up to me saying "here is proof your mother doesn't exist" I would laugh in their face because I KNOW my mother and I KNOW my Heavenly Father! To me there is no difference! They are both KNOWABLE to me! I have a relationship with both. About two? three? nights ago I decided to watch a program about 'us'..where we came from and all the other nagging questions and this 1 hr synopsis cartoon style program informed 'us' that everything was some sort of cosmic serendipitous come-by-chance series of unimaginable probabilities occurring in the proper order to achieve the results we see when we look out the window or stare into the mirror. The improbable connections made between micro-organisms flung into the molten lava of a still forming earth from the far reaches of the universe, were duly noted as highly unlikely to happen even once let alone again and again to connect the dots of the 'no life' now 'it has life' teeny weeny wittle cell mutation as to sound ridiculous even if one had a statue of Darwin in their living room with a candle burning and dried flowers nearby And yet they believe.......... And yet are incredulous that you and I believe in a Creator....because, even after the wittle well connected cell mutated its own tiny being into what we see today, we are still left with the question......''well, where did the life starting matter from the far reaches of the universe come from?" dunno Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez Posted December 9, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 683 Topics Per Day: 0.12 Content Count: 11,128 Content Per Day: 2.00 Reputation: 1,352 Days Won: 54 Joined: 02/03/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/07/1952 Share Posted December 9, 2012 No offense but I find it funny how atheists believe that they can put infront of us "evidence" for macroevolution and we would just say "oh! You are right! I guess there is no God after all, silly me!" well, that would be like someone coming up to me saying "here is proof your mother doesn't exist" I would laugh in their face because I KNOW my mother and I KNOW my Heavenly Father! To me there is no difference! They are both KNOWABLE to me! I have a relationship with both. About two? three? nights ago I decided to watch a program about 'us'..where we came from and all the other nagging questions and this 1 hr synopsis cartoon style program informed 'us' that everything was some sort of cosmic serendipitous come-by-chance series of unimaginable probabilities occurring in the proper order to achieve the results we see when we look out the window or stare into the mirror. The improbable connections made between micro-organisms flung into the molten lava of a still forming earth from the far reaches of the universe, were duly noted as highly unlikely to happen even once let alone again and again to connect the dots of the 'no life' now 'it has life' teeny weeny wittle cell mutation as to sound ridiculous even if one had a statue of Darwin in their living room with a candle burning and dried flowers nearby And yet they believe.......... And yet are incredulous that you and I believe in a Creator....because, even after the wittle well connected cell mutated its own tiny being into what we see today, we are still left with the question......''well, where did the life starting matter from the far reaches of the universe come from?" dunno Note how this little guy looks up and then tip toes away? It's as if he has seen but does not want to believe.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevenseas Posted December 9, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 30 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,373 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 683 Days Won: 22 Joined: 02/28/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted December 9, 2012 I'm sorry Fez...I don't understand what you are saying? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 Ever Think Maybe It's The Faith Gene Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. John 3:3 That Determines Who For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16 Will Survive The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand. He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. John 3:35-36 And Who Will Not And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. John 3:19-20 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Citizenship Posted December 10, 2012 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 53 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 24 Days Won: 1 Joined: 02/26/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted December 10, 2012 even if we don't (normally) have a tail we would expect to see a genetic marker in our DNA that says 'genes for tail formation', and that's what we find. No, that is not what we find. Why do people read what evolutionists believe, (or like to believe), and then present them as though they were verifiable facts? No human on the face of this planet has regulatory genes that are marked "these are genes for making a tail". These are the kind of ideas that evolutionists like to sow into the minds of the unsuspecting, simply because the lack of evidence for evolution makes such things necessary. You might as well say that people have "genes for making six fingers", or any other similar growth defect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ehud Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 OneLight already asked this to be put in layman's terms once... I'll ask directly please: D-9, Ehud, viole, etc A. Please identify as simply as possible what the purpose of this discussion is? B. Please summarize the discussion in simple terms? God bless, GE D-9's summary very accurately relates the progress of the discussion. As he hinted at, the primary intention of this thread is to discuss specific evidence for common descent. There was a detour of sorts as we were briefly side-tracked by a relevant discussion over the influence of one's prior beliefs on interpretting evidence (D-9 expounds on this in his summary). This detour has been closed (see the end of my last post) and we are back on track to begin discussing the first evidence presented...the supposed human tail. Which will be addressed... The purpose of this discussion is the same now as it was in the opening post...to look at specific evidence for common descent, and it appears to be progressing well to that end. Thanks! Hold the Fort, Ehud P.S. I presented a short summary of this discussion in my last post as well, which you can also refer to. To summarize the exchange of arguments thus far:Ehud asks for evidence regarding common descent.Viole presents human tails as convincing evidence.Ehud asks the following question which led us off on a bit of a rabbit trail (but hopefully it was relevant)D-9 enters and presents a source for the human tail evidence, and argues for the validity of relying on the majority expert opinion in matters such as this.Ehud argues that the scientific expert opinion is biased by atheism which necessitates a belief in common descent.Viole argues that atheism is highly represented among scientists because of their familiarity with the evidence, not the other way around.D-9 supports viole’s assessment with some additional criticisms and accusations:Ehud’s analysis does not take theistic evolutionists into account.Ehud’s argument misses “some important aspects of science like the peer-reviewed process and the history of scientific thought and practices.”Ehud exhibits a double standard by accepting some of what mainstream science says, but not all of it. [*]D-9 concludes by expressing willingness to examine the evidence, namely the human tail and Hox genes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ehud Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 (edited) P.S. I hope everyone took time to look at D-9's citation for his 60% number. 60% comes from a Gallup poll (includes engineers and such, fyi); 55% are atheistic ToE, 40% are theistic ToE, 5% are creationists. 55/95 is roughly 60%, so roughly 60% of ToE scientists are atheistic, with roughly 40% of ToE scientists theistic. http://en.wikipedia....n#United_States If you haven't clicked the link yourself, this is what you will find...I had to laugh when I saw it. Why does it matter? I mean, why does it matter that we cite anything? Citing a source for information is time consuming and impracticable for most facts. However, a fact which one is using as a key foundation in an argument must be cited to hold any weight at all. I, for one, am very forgetful and can easily get my numbers and facts mixed up. Creationists and Evolutionists alike often throw out misinformation because they are pulling it from what they recall or have heard from somewhere else (this came up recently in a different thread). By asking for a source, I am not saying that the fact presented is wrong, I am saying I'ld like to look at it for myself. Of course, one could always go through the work to try to dig up the 1997 Gallup poll for themselves, but that is really the responsibility of the person who presents the fact. My next post late in this week will deal with the human tail "evidence" (...so please don't close down the thread ). Hold the Fort, Ehud Edited December 10, 2012 by Ehud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 P.S. I hope everyone took time to look at D-9's citation for his 60% number. 60% comes from a Gallup poll (includes engineers and such, fyi); 55% are atheistic ToE, 40% are theistic ToE, 5% are creationists. 55/95 is roughly 60%, so roughly 60% of ToE scientists are atheistic, with roughly 40% of ToE scientists theistic. http://en.wikipedia....n#United_States If you haven't clicked the link yourself, this is what you will find...I had to laugh when I saw it. Why does it matter? I mean, why does it matter that we cite anything? Citing a source for information is time consuming and impracticable for most facts. However, a fact which one is using as a key foundation in an argument must be cited to hold any weight at all. I, for one, am very forgetful and can easily get my numbers and facts mixed up. Creationists and Evolutionists alike often throw out misinformation because they are pulling it from what they recall or have heard from somewhere else (this came up recently in a different thread). By asking for a source, I am not saying that the fact presented is wrong, I am saying I'ld like to look at it for myself. Of course, one could always go through the work to try to dig up the 1997 Gallup poll for themselves, but that is really the responsibility of the person who presents the fact. My next post late in this week will deal with the human tail "evidence" (...so please don't close down the thread ). Hold the Fort, Ehud Hold The Fort~! Woe unto him that striveth with his Maker! Let the potsherd strive with the potsherds of the earth. Shall the clay say to him that fashioneth it, What makest thou? or thy work, He hath no hands? Isaiah 45:9 Where IS The LORD Jesus Christ? In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. John 1:1-3 Hid Under This Pile Of Evolutionary Mythology Soon To Go Puff? And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand? Revelation 6:12-17 ~ Despite The Faithful Few, This Thread Looks Like A Rag-Tag Team Of Desperate Blind Mice But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. 2 Corinthians 4:3-4 Scurried Out From Their Boring A-Thesis Snicker Board Nest Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. 2 Timothy 4:2-4 Little Sinkers Without-God Blindly Running A-Muck Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it. Matthew 7:24-27 With No Knowledge Of The Power Of The LORD, He hath made the earth by his power, he hath established the world by his wisdom, and hath stretched out the heavens by his discretion. Jeremiah 10:12 Jesus Christ, The Son Of God And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: Ephesians 3:9 The Creator For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. Colossians 1:16-17 Of All ~ And Yet The Call Goes Out, Welcome Dear Ones I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star. And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. Revelation 22:16-17 Believe And Be Blessed Beloved The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand. He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. John 3:35-36 Love, Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Citizenship Posted December 11, 2012 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 53 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 24 Days Won: 1 Joined: 02/26/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted December 11, 2012 (edited) It is an evolutionary throwback .. No, it is an assumption made by evolutionists, so please don't assert something you cannot prove. If hands and feet can produce extra bones, tissues, skin and so on then so can the coccyx. If "genes for making stuff" were accidently being turned on after 20 million years or so then the entire animal kingdom would be riddled with such cases. As I said, there are no "genes for making tails". Instead there are plenty of abnormalities that evolutionists can use to pick and choose among in order to provide "evidence of evolution". Perhaps you think that the Indonesian "tree-man" has "genes for making a tree"? That would be quite a "throwback"! Edited December 11, 2012 by Citizenship Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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