Split... "Did U.S. War of Independence..." War of 1812

[nebula]

You really do hate us, don't you?

I didn't realize the American psyche was that fragile that pointing out historical events would make you so upset. I'm sorry your people killed my people. We'll try not to let it happen again.

You have real enemies out there, not me, although judging from the guilt/paranoia (perceived of course) they're probably under your bed...RIGHT NOW

No, your attitude is coming across like an 8-year old making mockery faces and saying, "Nany-nany boo-boo, stick your head in doo-doo."

If this is the way you choose to converse, then I have no more desire to speak with you.

And if you respond to this with even more mockery and taunting, you will only confirm my opinion of your maturity.

So go ahead and make yourself feel exalted by belittling me.

I pray one day you will learn how to love.

[Guest]

Barabbas, you should take care, for if you anger us too much, we might stop vacationing there and that would really hurt the economy of some areas.

With your coming economy crash you'll be lucky to have a place to live, forget about vacations.

Amen Little Brother, Amen~!

For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day. For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory; While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal. 2 Corinthians 4:16-18

We Are Learning Not To Trust In Men

Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD. Jeremiah 17:5

But In Jesus Alone

Blessed is the man that trusteth in the LORD, and whose hope the LORD is. Jeremiah 17:7

Merry Christmas Beloved

[Barabbas]

You really do hate us, don't you?

I didn't realize the American psyche was that fragile that pointing out historical events would make you so upset. I'm sorry your people killed my people. We'll try not to let it happen again.

You have real enemies out there, not me, although judging from the guilt/paranoia (perceived of course) they're probably under your bed...RIGHT NOW

No, your attitude is coming across like an 8-year old making mockery faces and saying, "Nany-nany boo-boo, stick your head in doo-doo."

If this is the way you choose to converse, then I have no more desire to speak with you.

And if you respond to this with even more mockery and taunting, you will only confirm my opinion of your maturity.

So go ahead and make yourself feel exalted by belittling me.

I pray one day you will learn how to love.

Why can't you respond to my questions without playing the victim card? First I'm too "aggressive", then I'm too "mocking". My descriptions of actual events troubles you to much, I try to lighten it up, and I get "nany-boo-boo"????? WhatThe.....????

If you don't have an argument, fine. Just stop the drama queen play.

[Guest]

Why can't you respond to my questions without playing the victim card? First I'm too "aggressive", then I'm too "mocking". My descriptions of actual events troubles you to much, I try to lighten it up, and I get "nany-boo-boo"????? WhatThe.....????

Real Men Love Their Big Sisters

To speak evil of no man, to be no brawlers, but gentle, shewing all meekness unto all men. Titus 3:2

You See?

[GoldenEagle]

A good summary of the question over who won that war is given here (the top answer).

In fact, both America and the British territory of Canada became more solidified through the conflict. You should thank us for taking your ancestors closer towards becoming an independant nation. In a way everyone, including Brittain, gained from the war, ironically. That is, of course, if you are only considering the US, Canada, and Brittain. The Native Americans were the only ones who truly lost from that war.

I think the answer was quite good. Here's the perspective suggested by Nebula.

See: http://answers.yahoo...19063843AAMblM0

I was taught that it was basically a "draw", since at least officially (that is, by the terms of the treaty) everything was returned to its status before the war.

But if you take a close look at the whole American situation in the decades leading up to the war, and how the war was a key piece in CHANGING that situation (esp vis a vis the ability to sail and trade freely), you have to conclude that America ultimately gained a great deal of its main objective in the war. So even if I wouldn't necessarily say the U.S. "won" the war, the endeavor was in key respects a "success" (even when the successes were not always directly tied to victories in battle).

Some even think the U.S. lost because they believe that a central objective was to conquer the Canadian territories. Though this certainly played an important role, it was, in fact, NOT among the war's central causes, nor was it EVER among the official reasons given for going to war. So yes, they did fail to take Canada -- but is that "losing the war" if that's not what the war's PURPOSE was??

To get the right answer it's necessary to be clear about why the war was started/what the goals were.

As I hinted, much of the misunderstanding has to do with the notion that war must be about "taking territory" (or at least that this particular war was). By that measure NO ONE won the war, since at the war's end all territories were returned to whoever controlled them before the war.

But, in fact, gaining territory was NOT the objective of EITHER side!

More specifically, two major mistakes are often made here:

a) "the British were trying to retake their former American colonies (and failed)" No, that was NOT the British objective!

b) "a key American war-aim was to take Canada (perhaps annex it), and they were repelled" No. While there were those who desired this, this was NOT the reason for attacking the British in Canada and the government never stated any such thing

In other words, our Canadian friends are operating under the misapprehension that we declared war on THEM and/or on the British in order to annex Canada. But that simply is not the case.

---------------------

The main (and stated) objectives of the U.S. are listed below. Note that each of them was, in fact, accomplished, though not necessarily all because of the war itself!

1) impressment of U.S. sailors. This was actually settled before war, with Britain largely acquiescing (though with slow communication the Americans did not yet know this)

2) interference in American TRADE, and hence with American sovereignty/independence.

This was mainly the result of the wars between Britain and France (and Americans suffered at the hands of BOTH powers). Once that war ended, the British no longer interfered in the same way. Thus the American objective was achieved, though not necessarily by the war!!

3) "Indian question" -- in the Northwest frontier wars. the British supported the Indians

This was the main NATIONAL reason for invading the Canadian territories.

(Though some in the Western states certainly wanted to annex the Canadian colonies, this was NOT the formal reason for the invasion, and the U.S. government never pushed for it.) Note, that the U.S. was indeed successful in reaching this objective. After the war the British were never again involved in assisting Indians vs. the U.S.

Although Britain was NOT attempting to retake its former colonies, all three of these issues DO have to do with the exercise of American independence/sovereignty, which was being treated rather lightly by the European powers.

Thus it is understandable that Americans regarded this as a "second war of Independence" even if it was not that in the STRICT sense. And this overarching objective -- of asserting its own sovereignty in issues of territory ("Indian question") and trade, America WAS successful.

SOME of the American success was an INDIRECT result of the war. In particular, the cutting off of trade with England ended up strengthening U.S. independent manufacture ...leading to greater ECONOMIC independence.

Another indirect result -- the expansion of the American navy in order to conduct the war contributed in other ways to America's ability to assert its sovereignty. One prime example -- immediately after the War the U.S. Navy was able to fully and finally address the problem of the Barbary Pirates in the quick and very successful SECOND Barbary War (1815) . In short, by the end of 1815, and in part THROUGH the War of 1812, the U.S. finally DID accomplish the sort of freedom to sail the seas and trade as it wished -- something it had hoped to gain through the American Revolution but never quite achieved.

Further, after the War of 1812 the U.S. was bolder to proclaim (and act on) its refusal to allow ANY European interference in the Western Hemisphere (note esp. the Monroe Doctrine). Ironically, the Battle of New Orleans, fought AFTER the peace treaty was signed but before news got back to America, played an important part in increasing this American confidence and probably also in discouraging foreign intervention.

Source(s):

http://en.wikipedia..../Origins_of_…

http://en.wikipedia..../Results_of_…

http://www.globalsec...g/military/l…

http://nvnv.essortme...arof_rmfy.ht…

http://www.galafilm..../e/intro/ind…

http://www.galafilm..../e/backgroun…

http://www.rootsweb....nson/militar…

God bless,

GE

[Barabbas]

Yeah, like I said, I prefer a reading from a source not from the aggressor in this case.

The American congress declared war against England with the Impression Issue as the reason given.

Another reason was their need to totally expel England from the remaining land still under English domain in North America. They wanted to totally erase the remaining bastion of their mother country and attach these lands as new states of America.

The impression issue was an excuse, nothing more.

[GoldenEagle]

Barabbas, how about we begin with facts rather than rants, ok?

When did Canada become a country?

Good question. It's a bit complicated. Here's a good way to put it...

From: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/When_did_Canada_become_a_sovereign_nation

Technically Canada never actually ever became a sovereign nation. In 1867 when the British North American was first passed it allowed the creation of the dominion of Canada, not the nation of Canada. The dominion allowed Canada to govern herself internally but she still remained a part of the British Empire, much in the same way as Australia and New Zealand did at that time.

When Britain went to war in 1914 Canada automatically had to go to war as Britain still controlled all the foreign policy of the state. It was only the passing of the Statute of Westminster in 1931 that removed this control. With the enshrining of the Charter of Rights & Freedoms in Canadian Law in 1982, its was only then that Canada became a defacto sovereign state. However in thedejure interpretation (that is legal interpretation) of sovereignty, the Dominion of Canada with the Queen of Canada as its head of state is still part of the British Empire.

Thoughts anyone on the thread?

What is the reason America declared war and against whom was it declared

See previous post #15

God bless,

GE

[Guest man]

Thoughts anyone on the thread?

"Childish" comes to mind.

[Barabbas]

Again,

The American congress declared war against England with the Impression Issue as the reason given.

Another reason was their need to totally expel England from the remaining land still under English domain in North America. They wanted to totally erase the remaining bastion of their mother country and attach these lands as new states of America.

The impression issue was an excuse, nothing more.

It was Upper, and Lower Canada at the time.

Are you putting forth the idea it was only because we were English as an excuse for attacking my country? Curious.

Thoughts anyone on the thread?

"Childish" comes to mind.

Do we have to put up with these continuous troll tactics?

[Guest man]

Thoughts anyone on the thread?

"Childish" comes to mind.

Do we have to put up with these continuous troll tactics?

Only if you want honest opinions.