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L10

no throwing stones by my TULIP friends, please...

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How can a reformed Arminian share that grace is Not irresistible? Ok, not even sure the boards will let me jump away from my junior status in less than 24 hours from 100th post, but I have had the meat and potato talks plenty. I do this with no offense to my brothers in Christ, much as it should be done. Let me explain part of something that many of my Calvinist friends just never want to start to listen to. First, recently it has appeared that these discussions get more heated, and stones get thrown, hence my thread title. So, let me provide some moderate theology; not systematic.

All Arminians hold that people can resist God's saving grace. Divine grace doesn't act like some massive tidal wave, overwhelming the sinner's will in it's wake. Making any sense yet? Most will already protest if they are Calvinist educated... but listen on for a few. God's grace works thru suasion, influencing sinners, drawing them toward God, enabling them to respond in faith.

YET, when peope respond in faith and repentance, it is truly THEIR response, one that might have been otherwise !! The reason for this is that God works with his human creation in light of the creature's personhood. God's grace is thus resistible grace, from the start to finish, both before and after salvation.

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Paul says that the grace of God comes to all men~ Titus 2:11.

John 12:32 "But I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to me." Let me elaborate upon these with a shared discussion with a Calvinist friend.

C~ "If all are enabled, and all are drawn, then Universalism must surely result - all would be saved."

A~ "Yes, if God's grace were irresistible Grace". God can Sovereignly choose that his salvation is not going to proceed along the deterministic lines; the cause and effect relationship. Rather, He is going to allow the sinner to resist the grace He has sovereignly enabled the sinner to accept.

What Jacob Arminius says to why God would do such a thing~~ Arminius states: ... beside his own omnipotent and internal action, God is both able and willing to employ the following argument: "God justifies no persons except such as believe: Believe therefore, that thou mayest be justified." With respect, then, to this argument, faith will arise from suasion... In his omnipotent act God employs {for uses} this argument; and by this argument, when rightly understood, He efficaciously produces {operates} faith. If it were otherwise, the operation would be expended on a stone or a lifeless body, and not upon the intellect of man"

So, we sorta see things as a "influence and effect" as you may be seeing things as a "cause and effect".

This is a compelling subject to me, as if one were to note that grace is resistible; then full Calvinism; essentially OSAS could not exist.

Now, I have thoroughly enjoyed my time on this forum, and have no put on some bigger britches, though the Spiritual warfare section is certainly worthy of good attention.

Let me also add that I have never noted one reason for a "C" to alter their opinion off a simple post. I ask you to ponder for a while, rather than simply respond with your first inclination of schooling. I am not Pelagian, Semi Pelagian, and have sincerely only noted that I have known more than just one sincere Christian that walked away from the faith to another, or worse. It was not good enough for me to hear the Pastor tell me that He was not truly saved. I heard the same Pastor say this person is indeed a Christian at this very moment (the time of his salvation years before), for He has professed with his mouth, and believed in his heart.... ! It was not enough several times over, and even though I know that God possibly predetermines the Elect, we as Humans can not see it that way. We react to a calling? Yes. It is a free will to us, and to call it otherwise would be sorta presumptuous. Hey, thanks for bearing with me. Be kind back, and I will as well. Love you all, just wanting to share some things that may clear up that Arminians are not WORKS based. Further discussion soon. Happy New Year to you all too.

Edited by L10
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You will find that though they don't admit it, most every believer has some things they feel God is in total and complete control.

Yes. Everything.

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That is sorta odd that not many Calvinists are not here, but It is welcomed by me. Yes, it is about the Lord, and I felt that possibly a few things that normally get thrown in my face could be explained with some ease. I do realize that the other forums I was on were more about equipping for apologetics, and it got sorta nasty. Good things are nicer here, way good.

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Could somebody kindly tell me what I am,I excepted Jesus as Lord and Saviour of my life 40 years ago, I don't think I can do anything in my life to separate me from Jesus, nor do I believe that I can do anything to add to my salvation. I have sinned several times since I was born again,but I hope and pray Jesus' blood covered those sines when his Blood cleansed me the first time, 40 years ago.

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Could somebody kindly tell me what I am,I excepted Jesus as Lord and Saviour of my life 40 years ago, I don't think I can do anything in my life to separate me from Jesus, nor do I believe that I can do anything to add to my salvation. I have sinned several times since I was born again,but I hope and pray Jesus' blood covered those sines when his Blood cleansed me the first time, 40 years ago.

Probably fairly simple answer, and you know it in your heart and confess it with your mouth, right? ....,, so it adds up with some logic too. Once saved = Always believer ? Maybe not, but your belief is intact, Jesus is your savior. The resistible grace that I shared was only to share the perspective. Is it possible? Many think it is not, but if only one person in history debunks Once saved Always believer (saved), then it is certainly possible.

That would sorta be a silly question to ask... at least I feel. Our faith is paramount in having a present standing, don't you believe. Not casting out ideas like " if we sin we have fallen", I know, many have. Peace, love, and truth to you.

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Could somebody kindly tell me what I am,I excepted Jesus as Lord and Saviour of my life 40 years ago, I don't think I can do anything in my life to separate me from Jesus, nor do I believe that I can do anything to add to my salvation. I have sinned several times since I was born again,but I hope and pray Jesus' blood covered those sines when his Blood cleansed me the first time, 40 years ago.

If you have repented and placed your faith in Jesus alone for your salvation, ALL of your sins, past, present, and future, are covered by the blood. :heart:

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Could somebody kindly tell me what I am,I excepted Jesus as Lord and Saviour of my life 40 years ago, I don't think I can do anything in my life to separate me from Jesus, nor do I believe that I can do anything to add to my salvation. I have sinned several times since I was born again,but I hope and pray Jesus' blood covered those sines when his Blood cleansed me the first time, 40 years ago.

If you have repented and placed your faith in Jesus alone for your salvation, ALL of your sins, past, present, and future, are covered by the blood. :heart:

Tinky, not to get into this too deeply, but if any person in history was once saved, and then became unbelieving; then died. This misnomer puts a nasty spin on John Calvin's idea that if you "repented and placed your faith in Jesus alone... All sins are forgiven past present and future". To make this a theologically correct position, let me ask you if we had any will to repent, or was that an absolute drawing? My point is that "repented" and "faith in" only need to be a present action. A repentented heart will not always repent dozens of years later. Yes, the Holy Spirit will convict us, but it up to us to repent. Again, I only share this with kindness and scriptural proof as well. Did Jesus ever want us or anyone to only do something one time for him?? Or, did He want us to go on living with fruits. Look at what happened to the branch that got cut off from it's one time nurturing; it withered up and dyed,, tossed into flames. Did He actually even ask the two people that gave a lot of their money if that was all of it? They were believers, repenters, but fell short then. Simply put, keep on believing, keep on repenting, keep on praying.
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Yes, keep on believing, keep on repenting, keep on praying.That is how you keep receiving the blessings from GOD. As you said, Tinky, "If you have repented and placed your faith in Jesus alone for your salvation, ALL of your sins, past, present, and future, are covered by the blood. :heart: " Nothing more is required. Good works are done to show appreciation to GOD for your salvation, not as a means to keep it.

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Think of it as ULTIMATELY IRRESISTIBLE. A person whom God intends to save may resist, right up until the Holy Spirit enlightens his or her mind to believe, but if God has it in His mind to save that person, they cannot ultimately resist.

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