firestormx Posted January 4, 2013 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,113 Content Per Day: 0.26 Reputation: 442 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/06/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/17/1975 Share Posted January 4, 2013 John 1:14 And the Word (Logos ) was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word (Rhema) of God. I've been doing a study of the differance between logos and rhema. On the affect it has on verses like romans 10:17. The word Logos never seems to be used in referance to the entirety of scripture, or in referance to all of the written word. Where as Rhema in some places does. Both meanings have some form of utterance and saying or spoken in them. They both have more meaning to them, but I'm just trying to keep it simple here. So, Why is this study so important to me? Why have I posted this? I take the verse I quoted in John to properly mean that the entire word of God is in the person of Jesus Christ. He is the embodiment of the word. Most people I have ever talk to, would say that the verse in Romans states that faith comes by hearing the Written word of God, what we call the bible. As we read the bible and study it and hear a minister preach on it, so comes our faith. But the more I study this out, the more I'm beginning to think that is tradition and it's not entirely correct. It's missing a important point. Our faith comes by hearing Jesus Christ, the author and finisher of our faith, or the Living Word of God, by whatever means he uses. Whether it's a pastor on sunday morning, personal study of the bible. The Holy Spirit Illuminating the bible. Simply reading the bible its self isn't enough. We must be connected to the living Word and hearing him which is Jesus Christ. The bible states that the natural mind or the flesh can't understand the word of God. The word just don't make sense to the flesh. So there has to be more to the Romans verses than just reading the bible ourselves or hearing someone else read the bible. So what do you think? Is just reading the bible with out a connection to the Living Word enough for faith? What do you understand as the difference between Logos and Rhema? Firestormx Joseph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allofgrace Posted January 4, 2013 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 158 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 26 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/30/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted January 4, 2013 The Word in John is used as a title of the Son of God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlessedByTheBest Posted January 4, 2013 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 631 Content Per Day: 0.15 Reputation: 119 Days Won: 2 Joined: 10/24/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted January 4, 2013 (edited) hi firestormx, i believe since faith comes by hearing the word of God, we are drawn closer to God and drawn to have more faith by hearing a preacher or reading the Bible. but no, i don't believe one can read the Scriptures and receive abundant understanding without the Holy Spirit living within. i believe Logos as used in the verse you share, is meant to specifically convey the truth of the pre-existence of Christ. this among other signs and wonders, is used to isolate the main point that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. the book of John displays interesting parallels to such truths as found in the other Gospels. i thank you and thank God for the interesting parallel you have discovered here, and it has broadened my understanding of the Word. and so in Romans 10:17, we should ask how is it that we hear the living Word of God? are we speaking only of an external, physical listening? no. do we understand God's speech by our own understanding? no. is the hearing that brings faith that of a spiritual discernment? yes. as you said, the Holy Spirit must illuminate these things to the reader, or the listener. and for what it's worth, Rhema is synonymous with Logos. love to you... Edited January 4, 2013 by BlessedByTheBest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firestormx Posted January 4, 2013 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,113 Content Per Day: 0.26 Reputation: 442 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/06/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/17/1975 Author Share Posted January 4, 2013 Thanks to everyone who has posted. I honestly stumbled across this, when I was trying to make sure I was reading the Romans verse in context. It was then I realized there was more to this verse than I had thought about before. To properly have a true interputation you have to put it in context. Whatever the proper truth of that verse, it has to apply not only to us today, but also to the christians at rome that paul was writing to. The first century christians in rome didn't have a bible like we have today. They were hated and revieled by not only the romans, but also the jews. As were all christians at the time. So there exposer to even the old testament scripture was limited at best. So if faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God, and there ability to acess the word (or the bible as we call it), was so limited, then there has to be more to this verse and what it means than just reading the bible. Which is also what got me into looking at the differance in the words Logos and Rhema. Anyone wishing to expound on this ( weather for or against don't matter ), it would be appreciated. God Bless Firestormx Joseph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firestormx Posted January 5, 2013 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,113 Content Per Day: 0.26 Reputation: 442 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/06/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/17/1975 Author Share Posted January 5, 2013 Can I believe God for a Lamborghini? Confess one and have what I say? There is a believe in heart part, and for that I would need to hear a Rhema word from the Holy Spirit. If I had not heard, then there can be no faith. Jesus Is Lord. Forgive me for asking, but were you being serious with your question or sarcastic? Do you believe the doctrine of believe and recieve it? Or were you trying to make a point I missed? What does that have to do with hearing Christ the living Word, the author and finisher of our faith? Also, what is your understanding on the differences and similarities between a Rhema word and a Logos word. Thank you and God Bless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 Can I believe God for a Lamborghini? Confess one and have what I say? There is a believe in heart part, and for that I would need to hear a Rhema word from the Holy Spirit. If I had not heard, then there can be no faith. Jesus Is Lord. Forgive me for asking, but were you being serious with your question or sarcastic? Do you believe the doctrine of believe and recieve it? Or were you trying to make a point I missed? What does that have to do with hearing Christ the living Word, the author and finisher of our faith? Also, what is your understanding on the differences and similarities between a Rhema word and a Logos word. Thank you and God Bless All My Lamborghini's Live In Texas (And Around The World, Zoom Zoom ) And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him. Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much. James 5:15-16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willa Posted January 7, 2013 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 68 Topic Count: 185 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 14,224 Content Per Day: 3.34 Reputation: 16,647 Days Won: 30 Joined: 08/14/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted January 7, 2013 Romans 1 tells us that we can see God in nature. If we exercise the faith given there, He will lead us into more truth in the fullness of the Bible. Romans 1:20. Saving faith is found in the revelation of God in the Bible. For 1500 years the Word was spoken because the written word was in the hands of very few. But I am told that the Bible is still most meaningful if we read it aloud. I believe that when God enlightens His word to me and I hear Him speaking to me, that is a Rhema. God does not contradict His written Word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mcgyver Posted January 17, 2013 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 321 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 80 Days Won: 2 Joined: 11/28/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/03/1957 Share Posted January 17, 2013 (edited) Thanks to everyone who has posted. I honestly stumbled across this, when I was trying to make sure I was reading the Romans verse in context. It was then I realized there was more to this verse than I had thought about before. To properly have a true interputation you have to put it in context. Whatever the proper truth of that verse, it has to apply not only to us today, but also to the christians at rome that paul was writing to. The first century christians in rome didn't have a bible like we have today. They were hated and revieled by not only the romans, but also the jews. As were all christians at the time. So there exposer to even the old testament scripture was limited at best. So if faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God, and there ability to acess the word (or the bible as we call it), was so limited, then there has to be more to this verse and what it means than just reading the bible. Which is also what got me into looking at the differance in the words Logos and Rhema. Anyone wishing to expound on this ( weather for or against don't matter ), it would be appreciated. God Bless Firestormx Joseph Great question! I'll try to give an explanation.... In Greek, just as in any other language, many words carry a common synonymous meaning that may not at first glance seem readily apparent. For example, in American English the word "blue" may mean: a color, an emotional state, a type of music, or a phase of the moon. If I say: "I'm blue today...", hopefully no one thinks that I'm reflecting a certain wavelength of light in the infrared spectrum. Take that same statement though...bury it for say 1000 years, translate it into an as-yet unknown language in another culture; and I think you'll see the difficulty that would arise in trying to understand what I meant...It would take some digging. So it is with any ancient language. So then, let's take a look at the word: Logos...briefly about 500 BC a stoic philosopher named Heraclitus assigned a meaning to this word in his attempt to explain why all change was orderly. Heraclitus wondered why change didn't become chaotic, and his answer was that all change was controlled by the mind or reason of God, which he termed "the Logos". Once the stoics caught hold of this they never let it go...even expanding the definition to include the inferred meaning of "substance". By the first century, Logos had the universally understood synonymous meaning of: the mind/reason/substance of God. In John 1:1...In the beginning was the word (the mind/reason/substance of God) and the word (the mind/reason/substance of God) was with God, and the word (the mind/reason/substance of God) was God. John 1:14 And the word (the mind/reason/substance of God) became flesh and dwelt among us.... Now Rhema didn't have such a deep connotation (except among Hellenistic Jews..a long explanation). However when taken in context of the passage it makes perfect sense. "Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word (rhema) of God." One most certainly can not hear a written word, unless that word is spoken. This is an admonition to "preach the word" as it were. Anyway, hope this helps a bit. Edited January 17, 2013 by Mcgyver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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