JohnD Posted January 12, 2013 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 0 Topic Count: 905 Topics Per Day: 0.19 Content Count: 9,646 Content Per Day: 2.02 Reputation: 5,832 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/07/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted January 12, 2013 Thought I replied to this one too. {scratching head} Water Baptism is a beautiful expression, an outward testimony of an inward transformation. But, it is not essential for salvation. John the (water) Baptist said as much. Matthew 3:11 (KJV) 11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire: Speaking to a wide audience he stated that Jesus would baptize with the Holy Ghost (salvation) or with fire (judgment). It is his version of John 3:16-18. 2 Thessalonians 2:13 (KJV) 13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted January 13, 2013 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 0 Topic Count: 905 Topics Per Day: 0.19 Content Count: 9,646 Content Per Day: 2.02 Reputation: 5,832 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/07/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted January 13, 2013 Ephesians 4:5 (KJV) 5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 1 Corinthians 12:13 (KJV) 13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. Matthew 3:11 (KJV) 11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire: Now which are YOU baptized with, friend? Water? or the Holy Ghost? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted January 13, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,991 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,689 Content Per Day: 11.81 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted January 13, 2013 Water baptism is not essentia to salvation. Baptism IS essential as an act of obedience, but it has no bearing on how a person is saved.. Being obedient to the commandment to be baptized in water is an evidence that one has truly committed their heart to the Lord and seek to serve Him with a sincere heart. Salvation is Jesus plus nothing. People seek to add baptism to the work of the cross and they are theoloically mistaken for doing so. I agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustyAngeL Posted January 13, 2013 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 23 Topic Count: 155 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,464 Content Per Day: 1.02 Reputation: 8,810 Days Won: 57 Joined: 03/30/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/12/1952 Share Posted January 13, 2013 No, you are not saved by baptism, you are saved by the blood of Jesus and a faith in Christ. God forgives our sins, and we are saved because of God's grace. I do believe however we should be baptized out of obedience to Jesus and to make an outward statement to the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdemoss Posted January 13, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 59 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,402 Content Per Day: 0.99 Reputation: 2,154 Days Won: 28 Joined: 02/10/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/26/1971 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Act 19:17 ¶ And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples, He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. When they heard [this], they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul had laid [his] hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. And all the men were about twelve. I will never be so bold as to come out and say that something is required for salvation outside of believing what God has revealed unto you and seeking to follow that which is of God. Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. If God through Christ is leading one to be baptized and the spirit of Antichrist is leading away from baptism and one believes the spirit of Antichrist over Christ then who is he being led by? Whose son is he? May God have mercy upon the truly ignorant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevenseas Posted January 13, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 30 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,373 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 683 Days Won: 22 Joined: 02/28/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted January 13, 2013 I suppose one could or might ask "must I declare Jesus Lord to be saved or just declare Him my Savior" just as well as ask this question regarding baptism But the answer to that question always takes care of itself in obedience, yet, faith is still the mark of salvation...obedience ALWAYS comes after as how shall we be obedient to that which is not even a consideration Accepting Christ is not obedience. God has not commanded that we accept His Son. He offers salvation and we choose. Salvation is simply choosing what God offers and says is our salvation. Obedience is the choice we make when we follow the One who saved us. Stating one must obey an ordinance as part of salvation is demonstrating that one needs security within their own actions as a physical 'proof' of their salvation when really, the entire arrangement is spiritual and the physical represents what we cannot see as a demonstration of the faith we have and as a witness to that faith God does not lead one to be baptized that I am aware of or that I have ever read, heard or had demonstrated and I have been kicking around the planet for some time now and been well taught since the age of 5. God TELLS us to be baptized by both demonstration of Christ and that of those who wrote the New Testament. We are also told to put off sin and many other things. However, the only active ingredient that we supply to be saved is our faith in Jesus Christ as the atoning sacrifice for our sins...... it pleased the Lord to bruise Him...all we like sheep have gone astray and behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world and so on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allofgrace Posted January 13, 2013 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 158 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 26 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/30/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted January 13, 2013 (edited) While water baptism does not save as I mentioned before and as all commands from the Lord it is expected to be obeyed. It is the blood of Christ and being placed in Him by faith that saves. John 14:15 If you love Me, keep my commandments. And as Paul said, his servant you are to whom you obey. Matt 3:2 In those days John the Baptist came preaching in the wilderness of Judea, 2 and saying, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand!” Matt 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach and to say, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.” Acts 3:19 Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, Acts 17:30 Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent, Matt 11:28-30 Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.” Edited January 13, 2013 by allofgrace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 I love this point, well mainly hearing the point. "If Baptism is essential, then why didn't Jesus baptized anyone?" Romans 6:4 says that we are "baptized into his death" .. How could anyone be baptized into his death if he was still alive? It is essential for those who wish to be obedient, but not for salvation. That earlier wedding ring analogy was pretty good, as a sybol of what has occured, not a a means to an end. As far as Jesus not baptising, that is true (or at least if He did, it was not mentioned). However, Jesus Himself was baptisted, and I think we want to be like Him. In anycase, Jesus' diciples baptised people during Jesus earthly ministry. Paul only baptised a few, put never indicated that it was not important. So, what I would ask, is why would any beleiver who does not have a phobia of water, avoid baptism? To Nebula's point about Hebrew and immersion, I do not know about that, but the Greek Baptizo, does mean immersion. If translators of the Bible, wanted to be literal, they would have called John the baptist: "John the immerser". To render baptizo as baptism, is not a translation, it is a transliteration. My guess is that most bibles use the word batism, becuase they do not want to lose sales among denominations that sprinkle and pour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Act 19:17 ¶ And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples, He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. When they heard [this], they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul had laid [his] hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. And all the men were about twelve. I will never be so bold as to come out and say that something is required for salvation outside of believing what God has revealed unto you and seeking to follow that which is of God. Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. If God through Christ is leading one to be baptized and the spirit of Antichrist is leading away from baptism and one believes the spirit of Antichrist over Christ then who is he being led by? Whose son is he? May God have mercy upon the truly ignorant. All that is required for salvation is faith in Christ. Baptism is an act of obedience to a commandment and is for believers. Unbelievers are never commnded to be baptized in Scripture. Only those who are believers are commanded to be baptized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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