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agooyers

The Ten Commandments vs Modernity

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The purpose of the outer court is so those who have a desire to understand more about Christianity can come and interact with Christians and learn. Are you seeking to understand how you might have a relationship with Jesus Christ, agooyers?

One could say I have a desire to understand more about Christianity, in that I want to understand the way Christians think. Christians attribute some rather large claims for their religion, and in the United States especially seek some rather ambitious special consideration for their beliefs, and I want to hear their supporting arguments in that regard.

Of course I am not seeking to have a personal relationship with someone who in my mind a dead man, to my mind the idea is ridiculous, delusional even. And considering this is the "Apologetics" section of the forum, it would seem rather disingenuous of you to then imply that if I adamantly state that I am not willing to be converted, that I'm not allowed to discuss Christianity on this forum. So let me be clear: It would take very compelling evidence to persuade me to believe any metaphysical claim made by anyone. No, I actually do not want to believe in a cosmic being who can read my thoughts, demands that I worship him, and threatens me with eternal torture if I don't accept on faith (ie. belief without evidence) his existence and that I should obey his commands (in my opinion not direct commands, but ancient second hand accounts). I would be willing to believe it if there were compelling evidence of such. I have yet to be presented with any.

Maybe I should ask you a question, gdemoss. Do you intend to ban me now that I have admitted that I want to discuss Christianity, but have absolutely no desire or intention to convert?

Edited by GoldenEagle
{{ Changes in red to tone down the post and sections have been deleted to conform to the ToS. }}
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OK, if the Ten Commandments were not laws in a normal sense, and several of them are not even applicable to a modern society, but were in fact moral/religious guidelines for a single human tribe in ancient times, symbolizing to them a deal they believed they had struck with their deity, why should they appear on U.S. government buildings?

Be careful...your bias is showing through... :grin:

But to answer, why not? Historically we as a nation have been a "religous" society. Whether you agree with it or not, it is a part of our heritage.

Also, let's be honest, there were "penalties" for disobeying the ten commandments. Leviticus 24:16 calls for "he that blasphemeth the name of the Lord" to be put to death. The Israelites destroyed nations/cities numerous times that wouldn't accept their God, ie. obey the first and second commandments. Exodus 31:14 and 31:15, call for those who "defileth" the Sabbath or "doeth any work" on that day to be put to death. Leviticus 20:10, calls for adulterers to be put to death.

You've shifted from the 10 commandments to the body of the law contained in the Torah.

You didn't ask about Levitical Law...you asked specifically about the 10 Commandments. :laugh:

I'd be happy to discuss the 3 divisions of the Levitical Law with you, if you wish.

So it would seem Christians have in fact picked and chosen which Biblical mandates they want to obey. It's all from God, but sometimes God was... misquoted? Moreover, I believe even some of the Biblical mandates Christians hold to themselves, they recognize are not appropriate in having a well-run and relatively harmonious modern civil society. Especially the claims that the Bible is inerrant and the writings were writings were revealed to the human authors by a perfect, benevolent being. How can one reconcile this?

No..we don't pick and choose what we will obey. The New Testament gives us clear guidance. But to understand why the law was given in the first place, one must look at the nature of God.

Additionally, it is recognized biblically that we are to obey the civil laws of the land. Romans 13:1-7 and 1 Peter 2:13-17 are two prime examples.

You see, Israel was a theocracy...and no other society has been. So to try to fit a series of laws governing a theocracy with any modern society is not going to work...although certain precepts may be universal.

Edited by GoldenEagle
{{ To edit to reflect revised quotes }}
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Modern society is by no means "civil." It is barbaric. And as asked above, are you seeking to have a relationship with Jesus Christ or are you here to cause discontent. If it is the latter, perhaps you should read the ToS.

Oh, another one. I thought this was the "apologetics" section of the forum? As in Christians attempt to defend their religion against logical criticism? Was I mistaken? Also, is having Christianity rationally criticized going to cause you discontent?

I believe it seems some of you aren't much for free speech, or open, honest discussion.

Edited by GoldenEagle
{{ Changes in red to tone down the post. }}
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I'm in. To the best of my ability anyway. As long as the condescending tone is squelched.

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(@agooyers) I don't know about that...I'm talking to you, aren't I?

If we are in the wrong section of the board, simple enough to ask a mod to move it to a more appropriate section without getting snarky about it.

BTW...I also would be delusional if I wanted a personal relationship with a dead man...but who said Jesus is dead?

Have you ever seriously studied the ressurection?

After 21 years of studying every scrap I could get my hands on...I am firmly convinced that Jesus is alive and well and is coming again.

Edited by Mcgyver
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Maybe I should ask you a question, gdemoss. Do you intend to ban me now that I have admitted that I want to discuss Christianity, but have absolutely no desire or intention to convert?

Do I intend to ban you? No. Do I believe you will end up banned? Most likely. From the tone of your posts and considering previous people who have come with that tone, I don't expect you to last long at all.

Edited by GoldenEagle
{{ To tone down post and edit text in red. }}
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It is against the ToS to insult GOD on this forum. You need to stop.

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OK, if the Ten Commandments were not laws in a normal sense, and several of them are not even applicable to a modern society, but were in fact moral/religious guidelines for a single human tribe in ancient times, symbolizing to them a deal they believed they had struck with their deity, why should they appear on U.S. government buildings?

Be careful...your bias is showing through... :grin:

But to answer, why not? Historically we as a nation have been a "religous" society. Whether you agree with it or not, it is a part of our heritage.

Also, let's be honest, there were "penalties" for disobeying the ten commandments. Leviticus 24:16 calls for "he that blasphemeth the name of the Lord" to be put to death. The Israelites destroyed nations/cities numerous times that wouldn't accept their God, ie. obey the first and second commandments. Exodus 31:14 and 31:15, call for those who "defileth" the Sabbath or "doeth any work" on that day to be put to death. Leviticus 20:10, calls for adulterers to be put to death.

You've shifted from the 10 commandments to the body of the law contained in the Torah.

You didn't ask about Levitical Law...you asked specifically about the 10 Commandments. :laugh:

I'd be happy to discuss the 3 divisions of the Levitical Law with you, if you wish.

So it would seem Christians have in fact picked and chosen which Biblical mandates they want to obey. It's all from God, but sometimes God was... misquoted? Moreover, I believe even some of the Biblical mandates Christians hold to themselves, they recognize are not appropriate in having a well-run and relatively harmonious modern civil society. Especially the claims that the Bible is inerrant and the writings were writings were revealed to the human authors by a perfect, benevolent being. How can one reconcile this?

No..we don't pick and choose what we will obey. The New Testament gives us clear guidance. But to understand why the law was given in the first place, one must look at the nature of God.

Additionally, it is recognized biblically that we are to obey the civil laws of the land. Romans 13:1-7 and 1 Peter 2:13-17 are two prime examples.

You see, Israel was a theocracy...and no other society has been. So to try to fit a series of laws governing a theocracy with any modern society is not going to work...although certain precepts may be universal.

My bias? If we're going to accuse each other of biases, I could just as easily point out what I perceive your christian bias. Now, let me ask the question more succinctly: Why should the Ten Commandments be presented on government property, implying endorsement, when only 3 out of 10 are even laws, and 4 of them actually violate U.S. law. If by bias you mean I have a position on the subject, a) you're misusing the word "bias", and b) yes, I have a position on the Ten Commandments appearing on U.S. government buildings. It shouldn't be so.

You said there were no civil penalty for disobedience of the Ten Commandments. Being put to death would seem to be a pretty stiff penalty, maybe I misunderstood?

I am curious what you mean when you say "to understand why the law was given in the first place, one must look at the nature of God."

Edited by GoldenEagle
{{ Edit to reflect revised post. Change in red to tone down the post. }}
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To all,

A few reminders to everyone. First, please keep in mind this is a Ministry (Worthy) that just happens to have a discussion forum (WCF).

Second disrespect of God, Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit, or the Bible will not be tolerated.

Third, abuse of other posters is not allowed. Please debate the subject and not the person. It is possible to disagree about a doctrine and/or subject without insulting the person you are debating.

Fourth, the purpose of the Outer Court is to learn more about what it means to be a Christian. It is not a section that gives people free reign to disrespect God, Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit, or the Bible. Plain and simple.

From the WCF ToS (Terms of Serve or Board Rules)…

You may not post any material that is disrespectful of God, Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit, or the Bible. This includes user names or anything in your profile, or sig. (Ex. 20:7)

Abuse of other posters is not allowed. This includes, but is not limited to, name calling, insulting, harassing, threatening or in any way invading the privacy of another poster. (Eph. 4: 29)

Debate the subject, not the person.

It is possible to disagree about a doctrine or subject under discussion without insulting the person with whom you are debating. Also remember that the fact that a person disagrees with you does not mean they are attacking you as a person. Respect each other in the love of God! This is the main reason that threads get stopped, shut down, and even deleted! Users that cannot respect others will be banned. (Lev. 19:18)

If you have a problem with any of the Moderators or Chat admin, please keep it private. The moderation team serves this ministry on a voluntary basis. They are human beings and make mistakes. If you disagree with one of their decisions, make use of the PM system or email or the Repost Post button to get satisfaction. (Matt. 18:15)

This is a privately funded message board, we reserve the right to edit or remove any postings that we feel are detrimental to the fellowship on this board, or detrimental to the witness of the board, as we see fit. It is not possible to read every post. If you see a board violation, please report it using the “Report Post” button.

There are two main sections to Worthy Boards, the Inner Court and the Outer Court. The Inner court is designed for fellowship and discussion among those who know Jesus Christ as Savior. The Outer Court is an area where we allow anyone who wishes to learn more about our belief to ask questions and learn.

Please proceed accordingly once this thread is cleaned up and is re-opened.

God bless,

GE

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