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Science Disproves Evolution


Pahu

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....Your whole post falls apart at number 4.  Define nothing....

 

:thumbsup:

 

Nothing

 

And they said, There is no hope: but we will walk after our own devices, and we will every one do the imagination of his evil heart. Jeremiah 18:12

 

No

 

Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. Hebrews 3:12

 

Hope

 

And again, Esaias saith, There shall be a root of Jesse, and he that shall rise to reign over the Gentiles; in him shall the Gentiles trust.

 

Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope, through the power of the Holy Ghost. Romans 15:12-13

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Science Proves God

 

When we set out to explain why and how something happens, we must use the evidence, facts and experience available to us if we are to arrive at a logical conclusion. Using available evidence, experience, facts, observation and experimentation, we know that the universe had a beginning and that before that beginning there was no universe and therefore there was nothing. We know this because of the Law of Causality (for every cause there is an effect and for every effect there is a cause). Based on this law, we can use the following logic:

 

1. The universe exists.

2. The universe had a beginning.

3. Before the beginning of the universe, there was no universe.

4. Since there was no universe, there was nothing.

5. Since the universe does exist, it came from nothing.

6. Something does not come from nothing by any natural cause.

7. Therefore the cause of the universe is supernatural.

8. Life exists.

9. Life always comes from pre-existing life of the same kind (the Law of Biogenesis).

10. Life cannot come from nonliving matter by any natural cause.

11. Since life does exist, the cause of life is supernatural.

 

Many people with a naturalistic worldview assume everything can be explained by natural causes. From the beginning, they reject the possibility of a supernatural cause. Because of this they are left with no scientifically valid answers to the question of how the universe could come from nothing, which is impossible by any natural cause of which we are aware. Many answers have been proposed that go beyond the realm of known evidence, experience, facts, observation and experimentation and therefore enter the realm of fiction.

 

The same logic applies to life. Using available evidence, experience, facts, observation and experimentation, we know that life only comes from pre-existing life of the same kind.

 

“Spontaneous generation (the emergence of life from nonliving matter) has never been observed. All observations have shown that life comes only from life. This has been observed so consistently it is called the Law of Biogenesis. Evolution conflicts with this scientific law by claiming that life came from nonliving matter through natural processes.” [From "In the Beginning" by Walt Brown]

 

Life never comes from non-living matter by any natural cause of which we are aware.

 

Now that we have seen proof that God exists, using logic based on known evidence, experience, facts, observation and experimentation, we need to see if He has revealed Himself to us. In the Holy Bible there are hundreds of prophecies given by God who is speaking in the first person. In both Bible and secular history we find that those prophecies have been accurately fulfilled. No other writing on earth comes close to doing this! Only God can accurately reveal the future, ergo, He is the author of the Holy Bible. Within the pages of the Holy Bible He reveals His nature, our nature, His relationship to us, our need for salvation and His plan of salvation for us.

 

The reason the universe and life cannot come from nothing by any natural cause, but can come from a supernatural cause is because God is the self-existent creator of everything and everyone. He is not subject to His creation. He created it and sustains it. It is a mistake to judge God by human standards and human perspectives. God reveals that He is omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent.

 

If you are interested in more detailed proof, read, “Evidence that Demands a Verdict” by Josh McDowell.

 

[From Reincarnation in the Bible?]

 

 

BoddhiBody: 'Stuff' didn't have to come from anywhere. Asking what comes before motion (and therefore time), then making the birth of time synonymous with 'the birth' of energy,  is ridiculous. It's even worse to assume the birth of energy equates to the birth of 'stuff'. Stuff exists, existed, always did exist, and always will exist.

 

How's that rub you?

 

Pahu: The universe cannot be infinitely old or all useable energy would have been lost already (entropy). This has not occurred. Therefore, the universe is not infinitely old and had a beginning and before that beginning there was nothing. Something cannot come from nothing by any natural cause but since evolutionism is a philosophy of materialism, it has to claim the universe came from nothing by some natural cause, which contradicts the facts of science.

 

Something cannot bring itself into existence.  Therefore, something brought it into existence. What brought the universe into existence?  It would have to be greater than the universe and be a sufficient cause to it.

 

All things that came into existence were caused to exist.  Therefore, logically, there must be a single uncaused cause that has always existed.

 

 

You don't know what you're talking about. Entropy is the deconstruction of what particular energetic construct arose, usually matter, as evidenced by heat transmission. It is the deconstruction of constructs of energy - leading to disorder.

 

Disorder does not equate to non-existence.

 

Energy cannot be 'used up'.

 

The first law of thermodynamics:

 

The total energy of an isolated system never changes. Energy cannot be created or destroyed, only changed in form.

 

 

 

Second Law of Thermodynamics

 

The universe is an isolated system, so according to the second law of thermodynamics, the energy in the universe available for useful work has always been decreasing. However, as one goes back in time, the energy available for work would eventually exceed the total energy in the universe, which, according to the first law of thermodynamics, remains constant. This is an impossible condition, implying the universe had a beginning.a

A further consequence of the second law is that the universe must have begun in a more organized and complex state than it is today—not in a random, highly disorganized state as assumed by evolutionists and proponents of the big bang theory.b

 

. “The more orthodox scientific view is that the entropy of the universe must forever increase to its final maximum value. It has not yet reached this: we should not be thinking about it if it had. It is still increasing rapidly, and so must have had a beginning; there must have been what we may describe as a ‘creation’ at a time not infinitely remote.”  Jeans, p. 181.

. “A final point to be made is that the second law of thermodynamics and the principle of increase in entropy have great philosophical implications. The question that arises is how did the universe get into the state of reduced entropy in the first place, since all natural processes known to us tend to increase entropy? ... The author has found that the second law tends to increase his conviction that there is a Creator who has the answer for the future destiny of man and the universe.” Gordon J. Van Wylen,Thermodynamics (New York: John Wiley & Sons, 1959), p. 169.

“The time asymmetry of the Universe is expressed by the second law of thermodynamics, that entropy increases with time as order is transformed into disorder. The mystery is not that an ordered state should become disordered but that the early Universe apparently was in a highly ordered state.”Don N. Page, “Inflation Does Not Explain Time Asymmetry,” Nature, Vol. 304, 7 July 1983, p. 39.

“There is no mechanism known as yet that would allow the Universe to begin in an arbitrary state and then evolve to its present highly-ordered state.”  Ibid., p. 40.

“The real puzzle is why there is an arrow of time at all; that is, why the Universe is not simply a thermodynamic equilibrium at all times (except during the inevitable local fluctuations). The theory of nonequilibrium systems [such as those described by Ilya Prigogine] may tell us how such systems behave, given that there are some; but it does not explain how they come to be so common in the first place (and all oriented in the same temporal direction). This is ‘time’s greatest mystery’, and for all its merits, the theory of nonequilibrium systems does not touch it. What would touch it would be a cosmological demonstration that the Universe was bound to be in a low-entropy state after the Big Bang.” Huw Price, “Past and Future,” Nature, Vol. 348, 22 November 1990, p. 356.

 

http://www.creationscience.com/onlinebook/AstroPhysicalSciences16.html#wp1052519

 

It pains me how much you misrepresent research, making it conform with research from scientists of different eras whose expanded theories DO NOT COMPLY.

 

"Thermodynamics is an exact science which deals with energy. The second law of thermodynamics is one of the most fundamental, best-established laws in all of science. The second law involves a concept known as entropy. Entropy can be understood in terms of energy, disorder, or information. The second law states that the entropy of the universe for any closed system therein, (where an isolated system is one which has neither mass nor energy flow in or out of the system) is increasing. Put differently, the amount of energy available to do work is decreasing and becoming uniformly distributed. The universe is moving irreversibly toward a state of maximum disorder and minimum energy." *B. Davies, God and the New Physics, p. 11.

 

Deconstruction of energy constructs is NOT non-existence of energy.

 

You must understand that the universe's progression is one of OVERALL entropy. The Earth would be considered highly ordered. Most of the universe does not hold that order, and that order decreases. When it decreases fully, the unverse becomes a universe of energy which is in consistent, deconstructed states.

 

"The Law of Energy Conservation—'Energy can be converted from one form into another, but can not be created or destroyed,'—is the most important and best-proved law in science.

"This law is considered the most powerful and most fundamental generalization about the universe that scientists have ever been able to make." —*Isaac Asimov, "In the Game of Energy and Thermodynamics You Can't Even Break Even, " Journal of Smithsonian Institute, June 1970, p. 8.

 

​Learn your physics before you comment any more.

Edited by BoddhiBody
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​Learn your physics before you comment any more.

 

:thumbsup:

 

On The Metaphysics Of So Called Physics

 

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Ephesians 6:12

 

Where One Universal Law Is Mocked Because

 

Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. Romans 8:21

 

It Challenges The Pagan

 

Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

 

For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. 1 John 2:15-16

 

And Their Idol

 

And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever. 1 John 2:17

 

~

 

Learn Your Adversary

 

Yea, hath God said, Genesis 3:1(c )

 

And Your Friend

 

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16

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​Learn your physics before you comment any more.

 

:thumbsup:

 

On The Metaphysics Of So Called Physics

 

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Ephesians 6:12

 

Where One Universal Law Is Mocked Because

 

Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. Romans 8:21

 

It Challenges The Pagan

 

Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

 

For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. 1 John 2:15-16

 

And Their Idol

 

And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever. 1 John 2:17

 

~

 

Learn Your Adversary

 

Yea, hath God said, Genesis 3:1(c )

 

And Your Friend

 

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16

 

I find it unpalatable in regards the ideals of a man, Jesus of Nazareth - in fact I find it blasphemy to the idea of a benevolent and compassionate creator and lover of enemies - for you to insinuate out of assumption that I must be, because I understand some science, a 'lover of the world' who does not wrestle again principalities and powers. 

 

The truth is, I wrestle against the power of modern ignorance, whereby the search for the truth is stifled by the same dogmatic and unnecessary fear you try to exhibit in me. I have none of it. You try to instil it in me because you see no other way things can be than the way that you have been taught to believe. But you can't preach to a person who doesn't fear eternal torture, nor to a person who doesn't do all things in their lives to gain some eternal heaven, and ever expect to cause any clinging to your ideas.

 

Even the creature itself will be delivered from the bondage of corruption, as you say.

 

But the jury's out as to which one of us that creature inhabits. It is between me, and God.

 

When you get on your high horse, Jesus rides off on his donkey.

Edited by BoddhiBody
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Ecc 8:

17 Then I beheld all the work of God, that a man cannot find out the work that is done under the sun: because though a man labour to seek it out, yet he shall not find it; yea farther; though a wise man think to know it, yet shall he not be able to find it. 

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The truth is, I wrestle against the power of modern ignorance, whereby the search for the truth is stifled by the same dogmatic and unnecessary fear you try to exhibit in me.
 
I have none of it.
 
You try to instill it in me because you see no other way things can be than the way that you have been taught to believe.
 
But you can't preach to a person who doesn't fear eternal torture, nor to a person who doesn't do all things in their lives to gain some eternal heaven, and ever expect to cause any clinging to your ideas.

 

:thumbsup:

 

Beloved The Truth Is

 

Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth? Galatians 4:16

 

A Prideful Boast Of No Fear Is Oh So Unwise

 

I have a message from God in my heart concerning the sinfulness of the wicked: There is no fear of God before their eyes. Psalms 36:1(c-d) (NIV)

 

And Although Science Is Well Understood By Both The Educated And The Common Alike

 

For they deliberately overlook this fact, that the heavens existed long ago, and the earth was formed out of water and through water by the word of God, and that by means of these the world that then existed was deluged with water and perished. But by the same word the heavens and earth that now exist are stored up for fire, being kept until the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly. 2 Peter 3:5-7 (ESV)

 

Science Metaphysics Is Known By The Rational Folk To Be Lies From The Pit

 

How foolish can you be? He is the Potter, and he is certainly greater than you, the clay! Should the created thing say of the one who made it, "He didn't make me"? Does a jar ever say, "The potter who made me is stupid"? Isaiah 29:16 (NLT)

 

Lies Deliberately Gossiped About Against Their Creator

 

And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: Ephesians 3:9

 

And Whether One Would Worship Him

 

Our Lord and God, You are worthy to receive glory and honor and power, because You have created all things, and because of Your will they exist and were created. Revelation 4:11 (HCSB)

 

Or Would Choose To Bow Down

 

Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the LORD your God. Leviticus 26:1

 

To Some Idol Made Of Stuff

 

For all the gods of the people are idols: but the LORD made the heavens. 1 Chronicles 16:26

 

Is The Visible Divide 

 

The Father loves his Son and has put everything into his hands. And anyone who believes in God’s Son has eternal life. Anyone who doesn’t obey the Son will never experience eternal life but remains under God’s angry judgment.” John 3:35-36 (NLT)

 

Between The Wise

 

Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of King Herod, behold, wise men from the east came to Jerusalem, saying, "Where is he who is born King of the Jews? For we saw his star in the east, and have come to worship him." Matthew 2:1-2 (WEB)

 

And Fools

 

But the people replied, "Don't waste your breath. We will continue to live as we want to, stubbornly following our own evil desires." Jeremiah 18:12 (NLT)

 

Clap Clap

 

"For you will go out with joy And be led forth with peace; The mountains and the hills will break forth into shouts of joy before you, And all the trees of the field will clap their hands. Isaiah 55:12 (NASB)

 

~

 

Believe

 

The LORD hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee. Jeremiah 31:3

 

And Be Blessed Beloved

 

Your words were found and I ate them, And Your words became for me a joy and the delight of my heart; For I have been called by Your name, O LORD God of hosts. Jeremiah 15:16 (NASB)

 

Love Joe

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The truth is, I wrestle against the power of modern ignorance, whereby the search for the truth is stifled by the same dogmatic and unnecessary fear you try to exhibit in me.
 
I have none of it.
 
You try to instill it in me because you see no other way things can be than the way that you have been taught to believe.
 
But you can't preach to a person who doesn't fear eternal torture, nor to a person who doesn't do all things in their lives to gain some eternal heaven, and ever expect to cause any clinging to your ideas.

 

:thumbsup:

 

Beloved The Truth Is

 

Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth? Galatians 4:16

 

A Prideful Boast Of No Fear Is Oh So Unwise

 

I have a message from God in my heart concerning the sinfulness of the wicked: There is no fear of God before their eyes. Psalms 36:1(c-d) (NIV)

 

And Although Science Is Well Understood By Both The Educated And The Common Alike

 

For they deliberately overlook this fact, that the heavens existed long ago, and the earth was formed out of water and through water by the word of God, and that by means of these the world that then existed was deluged with water and perished. But by the same word the heavens and earth that now exist are stored up for fire, being kept until the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly. 2 Peter 3:5-7 (ESV)

 

Science Metaphysics Is Known By The Rational Folk To Be Lies From The Pit

 

How foolish can you be? He is the Potter, and he is certainly greater than you, the clay! Should the created thing say of the one who made it, "He didn't make me"? Does a jar ever say, "The potter who made me is stupid"? Isaiah 29:16 (NLT)

 

Lies Deliberately Gossiped About Against Their Creator

 

And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: Ephesians 3:9

 

And Whether One Would Worship Him

 

Our Lord and God, You are worthy to receive glory and honor and power, because You have created all things, and because of Your will they exist and were created. Revelation 4:11 (HCSB)

 

Or Would Choose To Bow Down

 

Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the LORD your God. Leviticus 26:1

 

To Some Idol Made Of Stuff

 

For all the gods of the people are idols: but the LORD made the heavens. 1 Chronicles 16:26

 

Is The Visible Divide 

 

The Father loves his Son and has put everything into his hands. And anyone who believes in God’s Son has eternal life. Anyone who doesn’t obey the Son will never experience eternal life but remains under God’s angry judgment.” John 3:35-36 (NLT)

 

Between The Wise

 

Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of King Herod, behold, wise men from the east came to Jerusalem, saying, "Where is he who is born King of the Jews? For we saw his star in the east, and have come to worship him." Matthew 2:1-2 (WEB)

 

And Fools

 

But the people replied, "Don't waste your breath. We will continue to live as we want to, stubbornly following our own evil desires." Jeremiah 18:12 (NLT)

 

Clap Clap

 

"For you will go out with joy And be led forth with peace; The mountains and the hills will break forth into shouts of joy before you, And all the trees of the field will clap their hands. Isaiah 55:12 (NASB)

 

~

 

Believe

 

The LORD hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee. Jeremiah 31:3

 

And Be Blessed Beloved

 

Your words were found and I ate them, And Your words became for me a joy and the delight of my heart; For I have been called by Your name, O LORD God of hosts. Jeremiah 15:16 (NASB)

 

Love Joe

 

You quote 'we shall continue to live as we want to, stubbornly following our own evil desires', as though you know me enough to assume my own desires are evil.

 

What's a follower of Jesus' path if not someone whose very desire is one of ultimate good, and who thus wishes to follow it?

 

Understanding modern science in no way takes away from that.

 

Having reverence for God isn't the same as having fear of dogma formed from misunderstood literature.

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The First Cell 2

 

There is no evidence that any stable states exist between the assumed formation of proteins and the formation of the first living cells. No scientist has ever demonstrated that this fantastic jump in complexity could have happened—even if the entire universe had been filled with proteins (b).

 

b . “The events that gave rise to that first primordial cell are totally unknown, matters for guesswork and a standing challenge to scientific imagination.” Lewis Thomas, foreword to The Incredible Machine, editor Robert M. Pool (Washington, D.C.: National Geographic Book Service, 1986), p. 7.

 

“No experimental system yet devised has provided the slightest clue as to how biologically meaningful sequences of subunits might have originated in prebiotic polynucleotides or polypeptides.” Kenyon, p. A-20.

 

“If we can indeed come to understand how a living organism arises from the nonliving, we should be able to construct one—only of the simplest description, to be sure, but still recognizably alive. This is so remote a possibility now that one scarcely dares to acknowledge it; but it is there nevertheless.” George Wald, “The Origin of Life,” p. 45.

 

Experts in this field hardly ever discuss publicly how the first cell could have evolved. However, the world’s leading evolutionists know this problem exists. For example, on 27 July 1979, Luther D. Sunderland taped an interview with Dr. David Raup, Dean of the Field Museum of Natural History in Chicago. This interview was later transcribed and authenticated by both parties. Sunderland told Raup, “Neither Dr. Patterson [of the British Museum (Natural History)] nor Dr. Eldredge [of the American Museum of Natural History] could give me any explanation of the origination of the first cell.” Dr. Raup replied, “I can’t either.”

 

“However, the macromolecule-to-cell transition is a jump of fantastic dimensions, which lies beyond the range of testable hypothesis. In this area all is conjecture. The available facts do not provide a basis for postulating that cells arose on this planet.” David E. Green and Robert F. Goldberger, Molecular Insights Into the Living Process (New York: Academic Press, 1967), pp. 406–407.

 

“Every time I write a paper on the origins of life I swear I will never write another one, because there is too much speculation running after too few facts, though I must confess that in spite of this, the subject is so fascinating that I never seem to stick to my resolve.” Crick, p. 153.

 

This fascination explains why the “origin of life” topic frequently arises—despite so much evidence showing that it cannot happen by natural processes. Speculations abound.

 

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The First Cell 2

 

There is no evidence that any stable states exist between the assumed formation of proteins and the formation of the first living cells. No scientist has ever demonstrated that this fantastic jump in complexity could have happened—even if the entire universe had been filled with proteins (b).

 

b . “The events that gave rise to that first primordial cell are totally unknown, matters for guesswork and a standing challenge to scientific imagination.” Lewis Thomas, foreword to The Incredible Machine, editor Robert M. Pool (Washington, D.C.: National Geographic Book Service, 1986), p. 7.

 

“No experimental system yet devised has provided the slightest clue as to how biologically meaningful sequences of subunits might have originated in prebiotic polynucleotides or polypeptides.” Kenyon, p. A-20.

 

“If we can indeed come to understand how a living organism arises from the nonliving, we should be able to construct one—only of the simplest description, to be sure, but still recognizably alive. This is so remote a possibility now that one scarcely dares to acknowledge it; but it is there nevertheless.” George Wald, “The Origin of Life,” p. 45.

 

Experts in this field hardly ever discuss publicly how the first cell could have evolved. However, the world’s leading evolutionists know this problem exists. For example, on 27 July 1979, Luther D. Sunderland taped an interview with Dr. David Raup, Dean of the Field Museum of Natural History in Chicago. This interview was later transcribed and authenticated by both parties. Sunderland told Raup, “Neither Dr. Patterson [of the British Museum (Natural History)] nor Dr. Eldredge [of the American Museum of Natural History] could give me any explanation of the origination of the first cell.” Dr. Raup replied, “I can’t either.”

 

“However, the macromolecule-to-cell transition is a jump of fantastic dimensions, which lies beyond the range of testable hypothesis. In this area all is conjecture. The available facts do not provide a basis for postulating that cells arose on this planet.” David E. Green and Robert F. Goldberger, Molecular Insights Into the Living Process (New York: Academic Press, 1967), pp. 406–407.

 

“Every time I write a paper on the origins of life I swear I will never write another one, because there is too much speculation running after too few facts, though I must confess that in spite of this, the subject is so fascinating that I never seem to stick to my resolve.” Crick, p. 153.

 

This fascination explains why the “origin of life” topic frequently arises—despite so much evidence showing that it cannot happen by natural processes. Speculations abound.

 

 

Your sources are quite old.  Have you researched to see if there are updates to the subjects you are posting?  Might help to branch out from Creationist websites also.  The more you branch out, the more you will know.

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Barriers, Buffers, and Chemical Pathways

 

Living cells contain thousands of different chemicals, some acidic, others basic. Many chemicals would react with others were it not for an intricate system of chemical barriers and buffers. If living things evolved, these barriers and buffers must also have evolved—but at just the right time to prevent harmful chemical reactions. How could such precise, almost miraculous, events have happened for each of millions of species (a)?

 

All living organisms are maintained by thousands of chemical pathways, each involving a long series of complex chemical reactions. For example, the clotting of blood, which involves 20–30 steps, is absolutely vital to healing a wound. However, clotting could be fatal, if it happened inside the body. Omitting one of the many steps, inserting an unwanted step, or altering the timing of a step would probably cause death. If one thing goes wrong, all the earlier marvelous steps that worked flawlessly were in vain. Evidently, these complex pathways were created as an intricate, highly integrated system (b).

 

a. This delicate chemical balance, upon which life depends, was explained to me by biologist Terrence R. Mondy.

 

b. Behe, pp. 77–97.

 

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