III. Legalism: You May Have Legalism(And Not Even Know It)In Your Life

[GoldenEagle]

How about #4?

4. If you believe God is predisposed to be angry with you because you are a sinner and let’s face it He knows you can do better.

2 Cor. 12:9

But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly of my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

Hebrews 4:16

Let us then with confidence draw near to the throne of grace, that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need.

1 Cor. 10:13

No temptation has overtaken you that is not common to man. God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond your ability, but with the temptation he will also provide the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it.

Thoughts? Are there other passages that deal with this #4 statement? Your thoughts?

God bless,

GE

[Tinky]

I've struggled with legalism by way of, when I've sinned, I tried to "make up for it" by doing something good, or simply wallowed in self-condemnation until I thought God had forgiven me.

[GoldenEagle]

Or better yet #5? What passages address this?

5. If you know God’s law but don’t have a personal relationship with Him.

This remind me a lot of what religious leaders (Scribes and Pharisees) were doing during Jesus's day. Thus the invention of the Talmud. The letter of the law without the spirit of the law. Trying to earn salvation through good works. Something even today some "Christian" (I use th term loosely) denominations or leders teach.

Or later when in the early years of the church with Paul and Peter when the Judaizers wanted to add circumcision as a condition to salvation. (Acts 15)

Circumcision of the heart (repenteance, confession, accepting Jesus as Savior and Lord):

Rom. 2:28-29

²⁸ For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh; ²⁹ but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God.

Regarding head knowledge but no repentence...

James 2:19

You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble!

What other verses come to mind for #5?

God bless,

GE

[saved34]

I understand your position, but here again is the problem, and I will try to narrow it down to one specific thing so I won't confuse you. The Bible tells us that sin is the transgression of the law. If the law was done away with, there is no law to transgress, so there is no longer any such thing as sin. Where there is no sin, there is no transgression. You could go out and commit an act of adultery or theft and nothing would happen to your soul because the law was done away with. It would cease to be sin.

Butero, you do bring up some excellent points here, but you are wrong on a few points. First, sin is sin apart from the Law. Before God gave man his righteous laws and demands, sin was here. The Law was given to expose sin in man, to show man his utter depravity. God hated Adultery well before he told man not to commit it, but when he gave his Holy Law concerning Adultery then man stood before God condmened, because even if a man had not actually physically committed the act, the Law is spiritual and it would hold him guilty for looking on a woman with lust. The Law utterly condemns and cuts right to the seat of sin, which is the heart of man. Now, as a man in Christ, I'm dead to the Law because in Christ it exacted it's Holy demands, or more to the point, God exacted his Holy demands on the Holy One. Christ stood before the Law of Moses unblemished, and completely free from sin, yet he was hung on a tree for you and I. The Law has been completely satisfied on our behalf which is why we can say we are no longer under the Law. We died with Christ (Death is the ultimate penalty of the Law), and now we are alive to God. Not in the sense that we have no obligation to live right before God, but we do not need a rule or a Law to tell us to not commit adultery. Christ has reconciled us to God, and now our hearts and minds are turned in that direction. Regardless if God had never given us his Laws, sin would still be here, but the Law sheds light on sin and makes it exceedingly sinful. Christ came to actually deal with sin, in our lives as well as to give us a perfect standing before God. We are being sanctified throughout our lifetime by the Holy Spirit to deal with sin on a daily basis. Legalism can never accomplish this.

As far as what happened to Ananias and his wife you have to understand the Church that they attended and the incredible circumstances they were under. First and foremost, there will never be a local assembly on the level of the Church that first formed in the Book of Acts. You had a church that was 100% Jewish, a church that had the original 12 hand picked Apostles and many, many disciples who actually walked and talked with the Lord. Not to mention Mary the mother of the Lord. We will never see a local assembly with that much power of witness and purity in one place. Whether Ananias and his wife was saved I do not know, I do know that in that Church impurity was not the norm, unlike today. An Apostle had great power from God, and could do miracles that even our Lord never did. (He said it himself). In the first established local Church, the Spirit made an example of that man and woman. I wasn't even there and it scares me when I read it.

[Sevenseas]

I've struggled with legalism by way of, when I've sinned, I tried to "make up for it" by doing something good, or simply wallowed in self-condemnation until I thought God had forgiven me.

Yeah...it's like we want to balance things out somehow...or sometimes we might wait for punishment because surely the trespass demands it?

I believe that if we are in 'continued' sin we will eventually reap the consequences of that.....Biblical principal......but sin does occur and when it does we have forgiveness if we recognize

that sin and ask forgiveness.

It is good to be sensitive and not want to sin but we are not made perfect in this life in our own life but only through faith in Christ and I guess a legalistic attitude would dictate behavioral

change rather than heart change whereas a heart change will effect a behavioral change in the desire to no longer sin. You can make someone dress or behave a certain way if the

punishment...such as being ostracized from a group that dictates you must dress/behave in a certain way...is painful enough but it would be absolutely harder to change a heart.

A changed heart will want to behave in the way it perceives God desires even when it is by itself with no one watching (other than the One who see us all anyway)

[enoob57]

I've struggled with legalism by way of, when I've sinned, I tried to "make up for it" by doing something good, or simply wallowed in self-condemnation until I thought God had forgiven me.

Yeah...it's like we want to balance things out somehow...or sometimes we might wait for punishment because surely the trespass demands it?

I believe that if we are in 'continued' sin we will eventually reap the consequences of that.....Biblical principal......but sin does occur and when it does we have forgiveness if we recognize

that sin and ask forgiveness.

It is good to be sensitive and not want to sin but we are not made perfect in this life in our own life but only through faith in Christ and I guess a legalistic attitude would dictate behavioral

change rather than heart change whereas a heart change will effect a behavioral change in the desire to no longer sin. You can make someone dress or behave a certain way if the

punishment...such as being ostracized from a group that dictates you must dress/behave in a certain way...is painful enough but it would be absolutely harder to change a heart.

A changed heart will want to behave in the way it perceives God desires even when it is by itself with no one watching (other than the One who see us all anyway)

I've always loved the Light in the question when your all alone-> by yourself .... are you?

[GoldenEagle]

I understand your position, but here again is the problem, and I will try to narrow it down to one specific thing so I won't confuse you. The Bible tells us that sin is the transgression of the law. If the law was done away with, there is no law to transgress, so there is no longer any such thing as sin. Where there is no sin, there is no transgression. You could go out and commit an act of adultery or theft and nothing would happen to your soul because the law was done away with. It would cease to be sin.

Butero, you do bring up some excellent points here, but you are wrong on a few points. First, sin is sin apart from the Law. Before God gave man his righteous laws and demands, sin was here. The Law was given to expose sin in man, to show man his utter depravity. God hated Adultery well before he told man not to commit it, but when he gave his Holy Law concerning Adultery then man stood before God condmened, because even if a man had not actually physically committed the act, the Law is spiritual and it would hold him guilty for looking on a woman with lust. The Law utterly condemns and cuts right to the seat of sin, which is the heart of man. Now, as a man in Christ, I'm dead to the Law because in Christ it exacted it's Holy demands, or more to the point, God exacted his Holy demands on the Holy One. Christ stood before the Law of Moses unblemished, and completely free from sin, yet he was hung on a tree for you and I. The Law has been completely satisfied on our behalf which is why we can say we are no longer under the Law. We died with Christ (Death is the ultimate penalty of the Law), and now we are alive to God. Not in the sense that we have no obligation to live right before God, but we do not need a rule or a Law to tell us to not commit adultery. Christ has reconciled us to God, and now our hearts and minds are turned in that direction. Regardless if God had never given us his Laws, sin would still be here, but the Law sheds light on sin and makes it exceedingly sinful. Christ came to actually deal with sin, in our lives as well as to give us a perfect standing before God. We are being sanctified throughout our lifetime by the Holy Spirit to deal with sin on a daily basis. Legalism can never accomplish this.

As far as what happened to Ananias and his wife you have to understand the Church that they attended and the incredible circumstances they were under. First and foremost, there will never be a local assembly on the level of the Church that first formed in the Book of Acts. You had a church that was 100% Jewish, a church that had the original 12 hand picked Apostles and many, many disciples who actually walked and talked with the Lord. Not to mention Mary the mother of the Lord. We will never see a local assembly with that much power of witness and purity in one place. Whether Ananias and his wife was saved I do not know, I do know that in that Church impurity was not the norm, unlike today. An Apostle had great power from God, and could do miracles that even our Lord never did. (He said it himself). In the first established local Church, the Spirit made an example of that man and woman. I wasn't even there and it scares me when I read it.

Good perspective especially in bold.

[GoldenEagle]

"The problem with legalists is that not enough people have confronted them and told them to get lost. Those are strong words, but I don’t mess with legalism anymore. I’m 72 years old; what have I got to lose? Seriously, I used to kowtow to legalists, but they’re dangerous. They are Grace-killers. They’ll drive off every new Christian you bring to church. They are enemies of the faith. Other than that, I don’t have any opinion! So if I am trying to force my personal list of no-no’s on you and make you feel guilty if you don’t join me, then I’m out of line and I need to be told that." - Chuck Swindoll

[Sevenseas]

saved 34

As far as what happened to Ananias and his wife you have to understand the Church that they attended and the incredible circumstances they were under. First and foremost, there will never be a local assembly on the level of the Church that first formed in the Book of Acts. You had a church that was 100% Jewish, a church that had the original 12 hand picked Apostles and many, many disciples who actually walked and talked with the Lord. Not to mention Mary the mother of the Lord. We will never see a local assembly with that much power of witness and purity in one place. Whether Ananias and his wife was saved I do not know, I do know that in that Church impurity was not the norm, unlike today. An Apostle had great power from God, and could do miracles that even our Lord never did. (He said it himself). In the first established local Church, the Spirit made an example of that man and woman. I wasn't even there and it scares me when I read it.

I agree with what you posted but not quite with the sentence above in bold.

It is my impression that much of the NT was written to counter act both sin and a gospel that was being corrupted by Judaizers and others

I used to have this dream of the NT church too and wanted to see that model, but after years of experience and study (I have been involved in ministry most of my adult life but am not now

as a choice due to circumstances not of my making....and no I have never been asked to step down or had an argument with a pastor or elder or been involved in some sin to disgrace

my witness while serving)

I just do not see that 'perfect' and enviable model of a church in the NT...I see rather a church struggling and growing by the grace of God a midst persecution from without and

error from within. If we examine the letters written to the believers in various churches, I just do not see that church so many think we should be like.

I'm thinking Ananias and his wife were Christians, else why would judgement have fallen so quickly at their lie? We might not think we have to fear this type of quick rebuttal from

the Holy Spirit, but in some ways, we might be even more at risk of judgement as we are given chance after chance to repent. I think God is serious when He gave us all of

scripture to learn from.

Anyway, that is my perception. Thanks

the correcting letter was addressed.