III. Legalism: You May Have Legalism(And Not Even Know It)In Your Life

[GoldenEagle]

11. If you believe that what people wear, skirt length, swimsuit type, tattoos, piercings, hairstyle, length of hair, etc. is a clear indication of a person’s spiritual maturity and character.

Same as what Neb said for #6. I believe that as we grow in Christ some of those listed in this one will probably change with time. I know my behavior has changed as I have grown in Christ. Everything listed in #11 is behavior and behavior comes from the heart. Only Christ can change a heart, and as He does the behavior will change.

I agree that our behavior changes as we grow closer to Christ. However, I don’t believe that any of these reflect the quality of someone’s relationship with Christ. I agree it’s all about the heart change.

There is a good use for this one though. Show up at a new church in (clean!) blue jeans and a t-shirt on Sunday morning and see how you get treated. You'll know whether #11 is a problem in that church in less than 10 minutes, maybe as long as 20. If they freak out, you have time to go to the next church on your list and not miss the next service. Saves time finding a new church.

This is a great experiment. I’ve always wanted to do this. A speaker came to preach at our church once. He dressed himself like a homeless person and put on special odor deodorant so he smelled like cow manure. A few people did approach him and even offered to help him out with food/a shower. He put on the act for a while before the service (during Sunday School) and you could tell certain people were very uncomfortable. Eventually he cleaned up and came to the service to preach. It was a challenging message of how you view the lost and those who are in difficult situations financially.

[Tinky]

2. If you believe God’s love for you depends on how much you have done for Him lately and the love you have shown him recently.

3. If you fall short because in your mind you need to be a better person, you haven’t prayed enough, or you don’t have enough faith.

4. If you believe God is predisposed to be angry with you because you are a sinner and let’s face it He knows you can do better.

14. When you miss a service or program at your church, even with a legitimate reason, you feel guilty.

Many times I have been guilty of these.

[GoldenEagle]

19. You believe that even associating much less discussing ideas with those different than you is sinful compromise.

This is another one where I've learned things from recovery meetings. They are one of the few places where folks from all walks of life, religions (or no religion), lifestyle, etc. will actually talk to each other about their common problem, usually drug or alcohol addiction. All the screaming, politics, etc. gets left outside in the parking lot during a meeting. Kinda how church is supposed to be, huh?

Yes, a bit sobering no pun intended. The church should be the place people come to find the truth, be accepted, and be loved. Sometimes I think we expect lost people to “act saved” and behave a certain way (even though they may have had little or no instruction of “proper behavior” in church settings) when they enter the church doors.

See:

[GoldenEagle]

20. If you believe that the expression of spiritual gifts (provided by the Holy Spirit) is evidence of one’s personal walk with God.

I've long since lost count of the number of times sincere people have looked me in the eye and told me I wasn't saved because I haven't spoken in tounges. They completely overlooked the other gifts operating in their own church at the time!

I could go on, but this is long enough.

Funny thing is about #20 is that they are gifts OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. Meaning if anyone has any of these they’re for edification of the Church (universal) and not something people earned or makes people special.

The gifts are for God’s glory to supplement the Church’s (universal) needs. Sometime people get a little too proud of whatever God has gifted them freely. My opinion of course.

[GoldenEagle]

On a more personal note:

1. If you believe God’s love for you depends on your efforts or what you do.

2. If you believe God’s love for you depends on how much you have done for Him lately and the love you have shown him recently.

3. If you fall short because in your mind you need to be a better person, you haven’t prayed enough, or you don’t have enough faith.

4. If you believe God is predisposed to be angry with you because you are a sinner and let’s face it He knows you can do better.

7. If you have grown accustomed to living by the expectations of others, especially those in positions of authority or those in your local church, as this is essential to your life.

8. If your sense of worth is based on the opinions of a Christian leader, your reputation, your church membership, or a group’s opinion of you rather than a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.

I still struggle with some variation of these.

Thanks for sharing and being vulnerable Neb.

I guess to some extent all of us struggle with these (or a combination of the things listed in the OP) in some form or fashion.

God is good to heal our hearts and minds.

[Guest]

A few things resonate with me as far as the "legalistic" tag goes, so I'll list them:

6. If you focus more on your fellow Christians church attendance, tithing, version of the Bible, outward appearance rather than getting to know others and accepting them where they’re at in their walk with the Lord.

I agree with what Neb said for this one. She hit the nail on the head. I'll also add that I have seen more Christlike love and acceptance shown at a 12 Step recovery meeting to someone returning after a relapse (they got drunk or high) than in some churches I have visited or attended. They would be judged and condemned in many of those churches. They would be asked to leave in at least one that I remember. How cold is that?

I read this yesterday… “The real miracle that happens in a spirit filled church is not healing or speaking in tongues or prophesying, it’s people loving each other.”

I can certainly agree with that.

[Guest]

20. If you believe that the expression of spiritual gifts (provided by the Holy Spirit) is evidence of one’s personal walk with God.

I've long since lost count of the number of times sincere people have looked me in the eye and told me I wasn't saved because I haven't spoken in tounges. They completely overlooked the other gifts operating in their own church at the time!

I could go on, but this is long enough.

Funny thing is about #20 is that they are gifts OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. Meaning if anyone has any of these they’re for edification of the Church (universal) and not something people earned or makes people special.

The gifts are for God’s glory to supplement the Church’s (universal) needs. Sometime people get a little too proud of whatever God has gifted them freely. My opinion of course.

Yep. Something else those folks forget: the Holy Spirit determines who gets what spiritual gift, not us.

[GoldenEagle]


 Wow! I feel like God really led me to this today, I really want to thank you for putting this up!

<snip>

Some of the points hit home with me, especially the first few about wanting to please God, I think about that a lot, I really want to please God. And also, I tend to think that if a woman is dressed like a hooker she probably isn't saved, or if they are cussing, doing drugs, obese, or drinking all the time then they probably aren't saved. Tattoos don't bother me because I was so close to getting a Christian tattoo when I first became born again. Yah, I have a tendency to compare myself to other people, and to boast as well, I have been trying to work on these.

I feel like God has an abundance of Grace, but that if I keep messing up all the time that maybe I'm not saved to begin with. I wish there was an obvious way to just know if you are saved.

Shalom

Natalie 


Natalie,

Thanks for sharing from your heart. I haven’t had a time to sit down to properly respond to this. I’ve split your post to a separate thread here for better discussion:

Of our own strength we can’t please God. At least I know I can’t. It’s God’s Holy Spirit inside me that guides me to do things according to God’s will. I think it’s great that you’re trying to not allow pride and boasting to be a habitual tendency.

Regarding messing up though… On my own I’d probably mess up every time. And if fact I still do. Just because I accept Christ as Lord/Savior doesn’t mean I won’t sin or mess anymore. However, when I do sin I can go confidently to God and ask Him forgiveness. God forgives me because of Jesus Christ. Now this isn’t license to sin but when it does happen I know I’m still saved.

It reminds me of an Audio Adrenaline song “Get Down”:

Lavishly our lives are wasted

Humbleness is left untasted

You can't live your life to please yourself, yeah

That's a tip from my mistakes

Exactly what it doesn't take

To win you've got to come in last place

To live your life you've got to lose it

And all the losers get a crown

CHORUS:

I get down and He lifts me up

I get down and He lifts me up

I get down and He lifts me up

I get down

All I need's another day

Where I can't seem to get away

From the many things that drag me down, yeah

I'm sure you've had a day like me

Where nothing seems to set you free

From the burdens you can't carry all alone

In your weakness He is stronger

In Your darkness He shines through

When you're crying He's your comfort

When your all alone, He's carrying you

CHORUS

This valley is so deep

I can barely see the sun

I cry out for mercy, Lord

You lift me up again

CHOURS

Every time I'm down the Lord ifts me up

Yeah

God bless,

GE

[Sevenseas]

How on earth does one attack legalism? je ne comprends pas (French: Translation - I do not understand)

Edited February 17, 2013 by GoldenEagle
<<< To insert Translation. >>>

[Sevenseas]

Legalism is branding yourself and trying to brand everyone else with your own fears of rejection because you just cannot accept that there is nothing you can do to be holy other than accept Christ and His sacrifice.

Jesus also taught us the greatest commandment. God is love...not legalism.

I am sorry that you continually imagine that anyone would like to be under the yoke of the law ... again. Of course you are free to pursue that impossible re-creation.

I really wish you had not thought you had to respond to what I wrote. I'm forgiven. You, did not die for me and you cannot forgive me.

Mute point.

In Christianity, legalism is the excessive and improper use of the law (10 commandments, holiness laws, etc). This legalism can take different forms. The first is where a person attempts to keep the Law in order to attain salvation. The second is where a person keeps the law in order to maintain his salvation. The third is when a Christian judges other Christians for not keeping certain codes of conduct that he thinks need to be observed.

Those things are legalism. Like you have stated, no one has to accept your opinion on what it is. I certainly don't.