Fullness Of The Stature
No matter your denomination, and no matter your bible version, we as believer's all have 2 things in common.
One, : is that we were dead in sin, hopeless and lost, and needing to be forgiven and saved.
Two, : all of us, (born again) ether by death, or by rapture, are going to meet Jesus The Christ, face to face.
So, i always tell all who will listen, ither in a group, or one by one, that "you need to thoughtfully live your Christian Life, the best you can, as if you are going to die today and meet the Lord and give account of your deeds- works - motive(s).".
And that is because you just might.
Trust me when i tell you, that all the people, every single one that is not an infant, who are found in the obituary page today, had no idea yesterday they would be found in it today.........Follow me?........Good.
Saint, you are exactly one stopped heartbeat, at all times, from meeting JESUS...so, thats important to consider from time to time, as this knowledge can help you understand what not to do, and what TO do with your TIME.
The bema seat, the judgment seat of Christ, or whatever you need to call it, .... there is coming to you, ready or not, a meeting with your Lord regarding what you have done for him, "in the body", on this earth, after you were saved. He is going to judge your works, and if your motives for doing some of it were vain glory, selfish ambition, or "look at me" opportunities, then our NT tells us that in the sifting fire of Jesus's Righteous analysis, these works of yours, (your lifestyle included).. SOME OF THEM.... will be deemed "wood, hay and stubble".........But, the others.....the other works you did for your Lord, out of Love, and out of a pure motive that was not selfish or self centered, will be DEEMED BY JESUS as jewels, as precious stones, as gold., and you can study all this out, simply by doing a deep study of the "judgement seat of Christ", and just run the verses (study) and ask God to give you wisdom and enlightenment about all this that is coming your way.
So, having said that, let me now get to the purpose and point of this Thread...... which is.... There is this verse....>"absent from the Body, and present with the LORD".....given by Paul, which is of course a fact and confirmation regarding what i just told you, = where you are going as soon as you die or as soon as Jesus cracks the sky and takes us, his redeemed Bride, all up high.
And what exactly do i want to show you..... is this.
I want to show you an understanding about how you are to comprehend what is meant by 2 verses....
1.) "grown or matured into the fullness of the measure of Christ"... and.... 2.) "conformed into the image of Christ".
So what is all that?
Well its very simple and i'll tell you.
Im giving out Light, so be discerning.
As you know, from the moment of your new birth, (born again), All Believers began a physical and spiritual journey that is taking you (transforming you) from your old adamic nature and remaking you day by day, "from glory to glory" into the IMAGE of Christ.
And what is Christ's image?......... Well, in this instance this word means, "just like" or "same as"....or, "exact nature", "perfect/precise likeness". And all this means is that God, who began a good work in you, (salvation) will be faithful to complete it, totally, when you get you new body and enter the literal 3rd Heaven, where Jesus is along with all those of faith who have gone before, as well as the heavenly host of Angels and others.
Saint, imagine seeing winged Cherubs in the air..... Imagine a place where you never get tired, have no worries, and dont need sleep and have a body that is just like the Body of Jesus........Imagine a place where you can have a chat with The Apostle Paul, St. Francis, John The Baptist, both Mary's, John the Apostle..... Imagine Saint, that you can tell Jesus how much you love Him, and see Him SMILE and tell you that He loves you and is so glad you are THERE..
How about all that?....... Philippians 4:8
Now, quickly, as its nearly 12:00, and many of you are looking at your watches. ... :)........... How are we to understand what it means to be made into the image of Jesus, and what is that like, regarding a human being, when the process is finalized?.....> How will you know you are there?.......Have you ever wondered this?....Well great, as now you can know.
There are 2 understandings of how to understand what it means for YOU to have ARRIVED to a final evolution, INTO the fullness of Christ, while you are down here on the earth, in your earth suit.
1.) Paul explains here, the final level of Christian Maturity... = "it is no longer I who live, but CHRIST who lives in me and through me".
2.) "long- suffering , with JOYFULNESS"....
So, those 2, when you have come to the place in your Christian maturity when those 2 verses are YOU, then you are become, "the fullness of the image of Christ"
You have arrived.
You are THERE.
So, where are you? ????????????????
How far along are you, Saint?
You can check your progress into the fullness of the stature of Christ, by truthfully accessing yourself based on these two criteria.
And if you are not quite there yet, then God bless you as you press toward the mark for the high calling of God, which IS to become,= the fullness and the image of Jesus as much as possible, even tho its YOU, as a HUMAN.
Here is your spiritual level reality check... : Help yourself to a check up.
1.) Are you so dead to self and lust of the eye and the pride of life.... and so heavenly minded and completely non-conformed to this world and its FLOW, that your mind has become the mind of Christ to the degree that you seem to feel connected to the pain in others who are hurting around you ??? , And, furthermore, all you want is more of God and His presence, more Righteousness, more Enlightenment, and can't wait to get to heaven, and would go right now if God would let you do it?
2. ) Are you right now, able to endure any and all SUFFERING...... physical, mental, emotional, even torture, ... does not matter the type... and still have the JOY of the LORD springing up like a deep well inside you spirt and emotions, that overrules and overcomes all your negative feelings?
I'll see you on the way there....... as we keep on going.........:)
Hi I accepted the Lord Jesus Christ as my Lord and Personal Savior over a year now. But struggled with my faith, I don't want my faith to be based on feelings which only last for a moment. I am right now on the worship team in my church I attend.
I am longing to do the will of my Heavenly Father Jehovah and to follow Jesus Christ as my Lord. I want to have that intimate relationship with him and never leave his presence. But now I have a problem, people know of my past and right now I feel like I am fighting a battle all alone. Even members in my church are saying that it is too late for me that there is no hope for me. To my face they encourage me, but when I am away from them, they keep saying this things and saying that i can never change and that i went to far from God. Since more than one person keeps saying it is too late for me, is that a confirmation? Wat would one do in my place? Would God reject me?
Do you love yourself?
Before you can love your brother you must love yourself first.
Do you love your brother?
Before you can love God you must love yourself and your brother first.
Do you love God?
If you want to start thinking about loving God you must love yourself and your brother first.
"For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.
For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith." - 1 John 5:3-4
"In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest:
Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother." - 1 John 3:10
To say or to think you love yourself, brother, or God is one thing... You can say whatever you want.
"If I bear witness of Myself, My witness is not true." - John 5:31
Then we need a second witness, that will confirm if what you are saying is true.
"It is also written in your law that the testimony of two men is true." - John 8:17
"And we are His witnesses to these things, and so also is the Holy Spirit whom God has given to those who obey Him." - Acts 5:32
If anyone loves his wife, he will seek to please his wife. If anyone loves Christ, he will seek to please Christ.
And how do we please Christ?!
"He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked." - 1 John 2:6
"Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead." - James 2:17
Many people claim to love Christ, but few are looking forward to please Him.
Why?! Because many do not love Him.
Love -> "does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil;" - 1 Corinthians 13:5
When we start talking about to strive and desire wholeheartedly what is good and to purify our hearts many people feel offended and start making excuses to justify themselves.
"Many will say to Me in that day,
‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’
And then I will declare to them,
‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’" - Matthew 7:22-24
Why are they offended?! They heard and heard and just ignored all the warnings and refused to repent. And decided to resume their lives led by lawlessness (flesh, themselves).
"but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemnation" - Mark 3:29
"And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world,
and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil." - John 3:19
"He who is often rebuked, and hardens his neck,
Will suddenly be destroyed, and that without remedy." - Proverbs 29:1
Repent, and desire to love one another. To love in deed and in truth, as Christ loved us.
"By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another." - John 13:35
Desire to love Him, to love His words and commandments... To live for ourselves, our evil pleasures and desires of the flesh is just a waste of time.
I see people who received healing from the Lord, received many good things, experienced many wonders in their lives...
But now they have abandoned the Lord, the Lord is calling them to repentance and they are resisting... They say: I prefer to live here, "eating and drinking", living for myself; the Lord understands...
I say to you:
"for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking,
but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit." - Romans 14:17
"Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the mighty works which were done in
you had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago, sitting in sackcloth and ashes." - Luke 10:13
Do not be deceived, do not fight against the truth. Doing such will only lead you to destruction.
"For we can do nothing against the truth, but for the truth." - 2 Corinthians 13:8
Consider the amazing love God is having for us... He needs nothing from us, for all things are from Him and He loves us so much that He wants us to live with Him, to have life indeed.
He gave His only begotten Son to die in our place, to pay The Price, so we all could have life and live for Him.
"But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the
Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him." - John 4:23
We are trapped in the flesh, the flesh only lead us to death...
All its passions and evil desires will soon end, and you will die. Do not be deceived by it.
"What fruit did you have then in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death." - Romans 6:21
Just believe in the Lord, He will change your life for the better and you will start living for real.
Repent, repent of your sins and say: I want to live, I want to have life... Forgive me and give me life, Lord Jesus!
Surrender to the Lord Jesus Christ... Let Him reign over your life... No matter what you have done: Just repent. He loves you!
"I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me;
and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me." - Galatians 2:20
And you will tell me: When will be my time. When?
I tell you: Your time is when you believe.
"Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens." - Romans 9:18
The Lord Jesus calls you today... What do you want from Him?
"...According to your faith let it be to you." - Matthew 9:29
"for the Son of Man has come to seek and to save that which was lost." - Luke 19:10
Only He has The Power to raise you from the dead; eternal life is guaranteed in Him. And only in Him.
"There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,
who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit." - Romans 8:1
"But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you,
He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you." - Romans 8:11
Carved images and idols can do nothing for you.
"They have mouths, but they do not speak; Eyes they have, but they do not see;
They have ears, but they do not hear; Noses they have, but they do not smell;
They have hands, but they do not handle; Feet they have, but they do not walk;
Nor do they mutter through their throat. Those who make them are like them;
So is everyone who trusts in them." - Psalm 115:5-8
The Lord Jesus is the one who has power to heal, save, and make everything new.
"And this is eternal life, that they may know You,
the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent." - John 17:3
"And he who sees Me sees Him who sent Me." - John 12:45
You have something that make you suffer, you are thinking about it right now...
The Lord Jesus is touching and healing you right now, at this very same moment.
Are you feeling this?! Feel and receive, in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ!
Repent, believe in the Gospel. And have life.
"And heal the sick there, and say to them, ‘The kingdom of God has come near to you.’" - Luke 10:9
"Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins;
and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." - Acts 2:38
"So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us" - Acts 15:8
God bless you in Jesus' name!
Hello everyone! Since I was last here, I fled my abusive ex and moved to another state. I am now living and working in a Christian homeless ministry and life is amazing! Best of all, the Lord healed my body and this has been medically verified! I am off oxygen and living a normal life! Praise the Lord!!
I primarily use the NASB, but occasionally I find it deficient; I will insert other translations if they can clarify the context. Those translations will be duly noted.
Chapter one was an appropriate greeting, but chapter two stands alone and begins to immediately address fears that have come as the result of some false teaching.
This theme was not a new to Paul as he had written to the Christ-followers in Thessalonica on a previous occasion.
1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 NASB 13) But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. 14) For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. 15) For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16) For the Lord, Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17) Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.
Considering the years between these two letters, the new members that had been added to the church body, and the addition of some false teachings, the fear has had a chance to creep in. I see the effects of false teachings frequently in the church bodies I have had dealings with, as people espouse things they know so little about; all the while continuing to cloud the issue.
So let's dissect the passages and see if we can understand all that Paul is trying to say.
2 Thessalonians 2:1-2 NASB 1) Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, 2) that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.
“with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him,”
Coming – is the Greek word parousia; a being near, that is, advent (often, return; specifically of Christ to punish Jerusalem, or finally the wicked.) Strong's concordance.
In the explanation above I see two distinctly different things.
One being Jehovah's return in the clouds to catch His church away. This catching away is called the harpazo, but it is also known as the advent or return.
The second possible understanding is this idea of the punishment of Jerusalem or the wicked. This concept pertains to the wrath of God being poured out. One of the keys to understanding the difference between Jesus return for His church and His coming as the conquering Messiah hangs on this phrase - " the day of the Lord.” Using the NASB concordance, the expression shows up in 22 verses. 18 of those references are found in the Old Testament. Since the Tenach is designed for a Jewish audience then the language and references are expressly Jewish; that means that the phrase – the day of the Lord, is almost exclusively about the return of the Messiah.
Of the four verses left and found in the New Testament, three of them are exclusively about the catching away of the church. This catching away is that time when Jesus comes back in the clouds for His church, and they will be caught up to meet Him in the air. 2Peter 3:10 leans more toward the time of the end, as it tells us that, “the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up.” While all of these things are a part of the seven-year period the implications are that this will happen almost all at once when Jesus returns to the earth for the final time. You see, this is one of those areas that are not that black and white.
So, let's see if the context of the passage answers the question about when this event will happen.
While I understand that Paul was addressing the body of believers in Thessalonica (a primarily Jewish audience,) these words also apply to us. I do not hear this complaint or question anymore, but I am aware that many do believe that Christ has already returned. If that is the case, what are we doing and why are we wasting our time?
But Christ has not already returned. How do I know that? Well there are markers, or some might think of them as guideposts along the way, and Paul spells them out.
2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 NASB 3) Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, 4) who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.
“The apostasy comes first.”
Since apostasy means a falling away, I ask you, has that happened? Absolutely, and at an exponential rate.
“and the man of lawlessness is revealed,”
I want to show you some alternate readings.
This second selection is from the Complete Jewish Bible, and it translates this passage entirely different from anyone else. Why is this significant? Because even the Muslims have prophecies, and one of them describes such a man;
2 Thessalonians 2:3 Darby Let not any one deceive you in any manner, because it will not be unless the apostasy have first come, and the man of sin have been revealed, the son of perdition;
2 Thessalonians 2:3 CJB Don't let anyone deceive you in any way. For the Day will not come until after the Apostasy has come and the man who separates himself from Torah has been revealed, the one destined for doom.
A man who is a descendant of Aaron –
The priests were to come from the lineage of Aaron. Since we know that the temple will be rebuilt, then practically every preparation would have to be made at this point, for a high priest to be installed. He then would be the one to enter the Holy of Holies and sprinkle the blood of the lamb.
The Muslim prophecies tell us that this Jew will reject the Torah, pay homage to the Mahdi, and follow him.
Do you grasp the depth of this action? Many who have esteemed this Jew enough to appoint him as the high priest over the new temple will be deceived, turn from the true God, and follow his actions as they too will bow to the Mahdi in worship. This Mahdi appears to be the Islamic religious leader that will soon be saying peace peace. Most of this takes place 1260 days into the time of wrath upon the earth.
I am always concerned that people will see my words as unbelievable.
If, you are a follower of Jesus Christ, then, you are under a mandate to study to show not only, yourself, to be approved by God, but to judge the words being said to you, as to whether they are true or not. You are not doing this type of study to bash people, although I sometimes think that many should shut their mouths, but you are studying these things so that you can know what is right.
Let me show you an example: I believe in the pre-tribulation rapture, regardless of the poor choice of words we traditionally use. Although there is a voluminous amount of those in opposition to this understanding, I did my homework and became even more thoroughly convinced that Jesus is coming back for His church that is waiting for Him, and, He is going to do so before God's wrath is poured out upon the earth.
Specific reasons why I believe in a pre-wrath rapture.
Matthew 3:7 NASB But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming for baptism, he said to them, "You brood of vipers, who warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
The obvious thing I see here is that Jesus just acknowledged that it is purposeful to flee from the wrath, and, that there is wrath coming.
Luke 21:23 NASB ... for there will be great distress upon the land and wrath to this people;
Here we can see that the intended target is the land and these people. Now the statement, "o this people" is relatively generic and needs some clarity. Luke 21:24 NASB tells us that “they will fall by the edge of the sword, and will be led captive into all the nations;”
It is easy enough to see that a part of this fulfillment comes upon Israel and it's people, the Jews. However, pay attention, and you can see one other group, the Gentiles. The Gentiles and the nations are the same. If you are not a Jew, and you are a follower of Christ, then you have been engrafted into the vine and no longer fall under the category of being a Gentile in God's eyes.
Those with a veil over their eyes will not get this concept. Since we are “in Christ” then we are part of the church and not subject to this wrath.
Romans 1:18 NASB For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,
What is evident to me is the terminology, the wrath of God. Pay attention to the words being used and upon whom they are directed. Romans 1:18 can be taken as a somewhat broad spectrum statement.
An example of this broad spectrum idea – I know a man who came to church for a time and did all the appropriate things. He came down front, cried his eyes out, made sorrowful and repentant statements. Why he even got baptized in a swimming pool as a symbol of this new and changed life he wanted to live. That didn't last long. Does he belong to God and is therefore not going to be subject to this wrath because he is part of the church. I do not know, because any fruit he produces is rotten and stinks before it falls off the tree. This pattern has been going on for years.
Ephesians 2:3 NASB Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.
The Apostle Paul taught that we were formerly children of wrath, and no longer subject to the “wrath of God.”
1 Thessalonians 1:10 NASB 10) and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, that is Jesus, who rescues us from the wrath to come.
1 Thessalonians 1:10 is one of the most specific examples that Paul gave us. Since we are in Christ, Jesus has rescued us from the wrath that is to come.
1 Thessalonians 5:9 NASB 9) For God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,
Many think that we deserve punishment. Well, that might have been true, but as followers of Christ, we are of those who have agreed to and accepted His salvation. You see, you need to have a firm grasp on what Jesus did. I am continually trying to remind people that all sins were forgiven – past, present, and future. Then what are people being punished for? Look at what Colossians 3:5-6 tells us,
Therefore consider the members of your earthly body as dead to immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and greed, which amounts to idolatry. 6) For it is because of these things that the wrath of God will come upon the sons of disobedience, NASB
Simply put, you either follow Jesus, or you follow the god of this world, Satan. He will go to an eternal punishment, as will all those who choose to follow him. This punishment, as many want to believe, is not the end-all statement, as God is a merciful God beyond everything else; ask Jonah. And that is why we have the sheep and goats of Matthew 25. Take the time to study that.
Revelation 6:14-17 NASB 14) The sky was split apart like a scroll when it is rolled up, and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. 15) Then the kings of the earth and the great men and the commanders and the rich and the strong and every slave and free man hid themselves in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains; 16) and they *said to the mountains and to the rocks, "Fall on us and hide us from the presence of Him who sits on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb; 17) for the great day of their wrath has come, and who is able to stand?"
There are three things I want you to see here. Verse 15 gives us a description of some of the people affected by what is happening: kings of the earth; great men; commanders; the rich and strong, and every slave and free man. No one upon the earth is left unscathed by what is coming.
In verse 16 we see them crying out to be hid from the presence of “Him who sits on the throne, AND from the wrath of the Lamb. This lamb is Jesus Christ. Since I used an example from the Revelation, let me point something out to you. This entire book is a Revelation of Jesus Christ. Even the rich, in this scenario, understood that God played a hand in this, and at the same time, they are acknowledging Jesus. It's all about Jesus.
And the last thing, although I have already intimated it, is that this wrath is coming from God/Jesus.
Since we are going to be like Bereans, a people who had enough sense to verify that what Paul was teaching was right, what then do we use as a basis for what is true? Keep in mind, that the Bereans did not have Bibles, they had some scrolls. Those scrolls were so valued that only a limited number of priests could handle them, and so the Torah and Tanakh were read aloud. This idea of scrolls changes the whole idea of Bible study. The Bereans had no New Testament, it was being spoken in their ears by Paul and lived out right in front of them. I, on the other hand, have over thirty translations of the Bible on my computer, and over forty commentaries that I can glean from. I have no excuses.
The answer to the question is The Word of God. Now, since we know that there are errors across translations, is it wise to merely open the NIV for example, read it, and then say, “this is how that is supposed to be understood!” NO, because, as I said, there are errors. (Do not for a moment think that these errors are on God's part, as God's wisdom has been substantiated by His ability to get His message across plainly to those who choose to pursue this wisdom.)
So, what am I saying to you? Be open but alert; trust the Holy Spirit to guide you; judge everything against the word of God, and, remove yourself, if you can, from false teachers. They will corrupt you with the simplest of things, such as David conquering Goliath when David was only four foot tall. That is not even close to the terminology used in the descriptions of David. King Saul, who knew David well for David was his ARMOR bearer, called him a youth. But what does that mean? Are these things critical to the story? NO, but if you are willing to build false images about the nature and character of David, what else will a false teacher do with God and His word.
I can tell you what some will do, for I have experienced this first hand. These false teachers send everyone that comes to the Great White throne judgment to hell. There is nothing about that scenario that definitively points to that happening; these same teachers refuse to see that Matthew 25 and the story of the sheep and the goats, is just another picture of the Great White Throne. In other words, they will twist the gospel so tightly that in time, you will not be able to understand what is true.