VII. Legalism - Letter (Quote) from a Pastor

[GoldenEagle]

The author of the letter has some valid points but misses the mark via confusing how sin is actually defeated in the life of the believer. He correctly assess that the law cannot make anyone perfect as it merely identifies sin. He fails to lead the reader to a clear understanding that it is the Holy Spirit within a man that quickens his mortal flesh and empowers him to live a life free from sin. Yes, the Holy Spirit is God's grace and is the very substance of the gospel itself but needs to be given the proper credit for his work in the sanctification of the believer through empowerment.

So now then we can identify the proper use of the law today. The law identifies whether or not the believer is walking in the Spirit or the flesh, which is the entire argument/teaching given by Paul beginning at Romans 6 and proceeding through 8. Through the operation of the Spirit, we as believers have the ability to overcome sin and live victorious.

I'm going to consider your words Gary. I'll pray about it and get back to you.

[Guest]

Truth Speaker

But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. John 16:13 (NIV)

Jesus Talker

He will glorify me because it is from me that he will receive what he will make known to you. John 16:14 (NIV)

~

The author of the letter has some valid points....

Look To Jesus

And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. John 3:14-15

Again I Say

And the LORD sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people; and much people of Israel died. Therefore the people came to Moses, and said, We have sinned, for we have spoken against the LORD, and against thee; pray unto the LORD, that he take away the serpents from us. And Moses prayed for the people.

And the LORD said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live.

And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived. Numbers 21:6-9

Look To Jesus

But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world. Galatians 6:14

See

But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: John 15:26

[Fez]

I agree with him. When I hear the law preached here on Worthy, or anywhere else, I can feel, I mean literally feel, the constriction and darkness around me. I feel a heavy weight and a real pity for the person who has made their yoke so heavy and who has blinded themselves to the truth.

Such people need our prayer, prayer that one day they will see the light, for only Jesus can free them.

[gdemoss]

I agree with him. When I hear the law preached here on Worthy, or anywhere else, I can feel, I mean literally feel, the constriction and darkness around me. I feel a heavy weight and a real pity for the person who has made their yoke so heavy and who has blinded themselves to the truth.

Such people need our prayer, prayer that one day they will see the light, for only Jesus can free them.

So when someone preaches that we need to love God with all our heart, mind, soul and body, and our neighbor as ourselves you feel constricted by darkness around you? That some heavy weight is on you and therefore you pity such a one who preaches this? Just seeking to clarify what you mean when you speak this way. Or are you speaking to the effect of those who preach Sabbath keeping along with following dietary requirements and other burdensome restrictions within the law?

[GoldenEagle]

Perhaps for clarification I should say that this was a quote from

Tullian Tchividjian

new book coming out. In it my friend says he goes deeper into a lot of various subjects. Hope that helps.

[Qnts2]

As a general comment, legalism does not have to be preaching the Mosaic law.

I remember going to a church which had weekly alter calls for Christians to come up an repent and be prayed for, in areas they were struggling. Ok, nothing really wrong with that.

But, I visited a year later, and noticed the same Christians going up to repent and be prayed for, for the same things. And I went back a couple of years later, and saw the same thing. Some of these things might have been committing to pray for 2 hours a day, or read a full chapter of scripture daily, or not get angry, or jealous, or witness to at least one person a week, etc. I thought something was definitely wrong, and being a geek type, I of course tried to figure this out. Why were these people up for prayer and repenting for their failures for the same things a couple of years later?

Here is what I observed. A person would do something 'wrong', and go up being introspective of their failure, repent for their wrong doing. Become determined to do better next time. And go out making an ernest effort not to repeat the sin. A while later, they would again fail. Feel very bad, and like a failure, They would have a time of feeling hopeless. Then, because they really want to be obedient, go up and introspect at the next alter call, and repent, vowing to themselves to try even harder. A while later, they would fail again, and feel like a failure and hopeless. Pull themselves up by their boot straps, introspect, repents, and determine to try even harder then last time.

I think this might be what this pastor had observed. I have rarely seen someone just totally give up, but there is definitely a

merry go round people can and do get caught on.

Our lives in Messiah are to be more then this.

[back2thebible]

Letter (quote) from a pastor:

Over the last couple of years, we have really been struggling with the preaching in our church as it has been very law laden and moralistic. After listening, I feel condemned with no power to overcome my lack of ability to obey. Over the last several months, I have found myself very spiritually depressed, to the point where I had no desire to even attend church. Pastors are so concerned about somehow preaching “too much grace” (as if that is possible) because they wrongly believe that type of preaching leads to antinomianism or licentiousness. But, I can testify that the opposite is actually true. I believe preaching only the law, and giving little to no gospel, actually leads to lawless living. When mainly law is preached, it leads to the realization that I can’t follow it, so I might as well quit trying. At least, that’s what has happened to me.

So sad. And frustrating. The ironic thing about legalism is that it not only doesn’t make people work harder, it makes them give up. Moralism doesn’t produce morality; rather, it produces immorality. The Onion brilliantly parodied this dynamic with its article, “Where Are All These ‘Loose Women’ My Pastor Keeps Warning Me About?” in which a fictional 17 year-old kid laments that he never seems to run into any of the promiscuous ladies that he hears about at church so often. The humor is based in reality. It is no coincidence, for example, that the straight-laced Leave It to Beaver generation preceded the ‘free love’ movement of the 1960s. We live in a country where the state most known for its wholesomeness and frugality, Utah, also leads the country in rates of pornography consumption and antidepressant prescriptions.

We make a big mistake when we conclude that the law is the answer to bad behavior. In fact, the law alone stirs up more of such behavior. People get worse, not better, when you lay down the law. To be sure, the Spirit does use both God’s law and God’s gospel in our sanctification. But the law and the gospel do very different things. The law reveals sin but is powerless to remove it. It points to righteousness but can’t produce it. It shows us what godliness is, but it cannot make us godly. As Martin Luther said, “Sin is not canceled by lawful living, for no person is able to live up to the Law. Nothing can take away sin except the grace of God.” The law apart from the gospel can only crush; it cannot cure." -Tullian Tchividjian

Is this off? Or is this right on target? What do you think?

God bless,

GE

It seems there is a sin you are unable to overcome, maybe you should try to find other men who have overcome the thing your ready to give up trying to overcome

I can tell you giving up trying to overcome it is not the answer

[GoldenEagle]

It seems there is a sin you are unable to overcome, maybe you should try to find other men who have overcome the thing your ready to give up trying to overcome

I can tell you giving up trying to overcome it is not the answer

Sorry I don't understand. What is your question?

God bless,

GE

[nebula]

There are a couple of things that come to mind when I read this. First, the guy said he was discouraged because he couldn't live up to the standards being preached. Why? What were they preaching that he couldn't do? It would help if he would actually tell us what sins he was committing and why he couldn't stop? Was he addicted to drugs? Was he addicted to tobacco products? Was he an alcoholic? Was there a chemical dependency of some kind, or was he sin sick? Does he believe God's hand is short that he cannot deliver from sin? What exactly happened when he got away from this kind of preaching? Did he suddenly overcome the things he couldn't overcome before, or did he remain in them, but now he feels better about himself?

Actually, people with this struggle usually aren't in bondage to these kinds of things. Rather, they are beating themselves over not being patient enough, not witnessing enough, getting angry too easily, not being joyful enough, and so forth.

[enoob57]

I think sometimes we get a little lost by twisting of realities here! The Word of God is a path for our feet.

A path described all the way back in Genesis in the time by Job 28 and reiterated by Isaiah 35:8-10 ...

this path requires wisdom and understanding and the 'fear of the Lord' is the gate of the paths opening :

Job 28:28, Ps 111:10, Ps 111:10, Pov 1:7, Prov 9:10, Prov 15:33, Isa 11:2, Isa 33:6

Once understood that the path leads us to Him but we must die to all that we are and receive the alien

life 'IN' Him by New Birth Jn 3... we can no longer return to self-justification for we are born not by our

wills Jn 1:13 but by Him Who 'IS' love 1Jn 4:8... We know that within us lies two desires one to God and

the other to this place (it is all that we have known, it is difficult to escape!) Rom 7... Those having this

second desire knows it's finish only lies in God Who has began it Heb 12:2! This path is seen here in

Hebrews as the primer to faith and works... the perfect combining of the two in Christ yet outside of Christ

or turning back to law from grace remains no sacrifice for sins Heb 6 ... why? because Christ is excluded

in self-justification-> and who could be in The Garden with Him and think there is another way but His alone?

Love, Steven