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1 Peter Ch 4

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In the past few days these verses of scripture keep coming at me. What I mean is I have many of my favorite Internet pages set up to give me a "verse of the day". And many have been giving me this. It's in 1 Peter Ch 4:

. 8 Above all, love each other deeply, because love covers over a multitude of sins. 9 Offer hospitality to one another without grumbling. 10 Each of you should use whatever gift you have received to serve others, as faithful stewards of God’s grace in its various forms. 11 If anyone speaks, they should do so as one who speaks the very words of God. If anyone serves, they should do so with the strength God provides, so that in all things God may be praised through Jesus Christ. To him be the glory and the power for ever and ever. Amen.

I'm not claiming to understand all the nuances of the meaning here. But it seems obvious Peter is saying what we do matters. If our practicing the act of Godly love towards others covers over a multitude of sins, then even though we may be saved our sins are still effecting us somehow. That's the part I don't know yet. In what way our sins effect us after we accepted Jesus. And I'm bring this up because we're living in a time where even saved people think they can do as they please, without consequences. This is not true, and these verses are but a few that prove this.

We all have sins and some are very hard to give up even when we want to. But we also have other sins that are not so hard to give up once we want to. But the churches have been teaching that all sins are automatically forgiven, to the saved, for so long now, that most Christians see no reason to give any of them up. This is wrong. And these are a few of the scriptures that prove it.

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Guest man

In the past few days these verses of scripture keep coming at me. What I mean is I have many of my favorite Internet pages set up to give me a "verse of the day". And many have been giving me this. It's in 1 Peter Ch 4:

. 8 Above all, love each other deeply, because love covers over a multitude of sins. 9 Offer hospitality to one another without grumbling. 10 Each of you should use whatever gift you have received to serve others, as faithful stewards of God’s grace in its various forms. 11 If anyone speaks, they should do so as one who speaks the very words of God. If anyone serves, they should do so with the strength God provides, so that in all things God may be praised through Jesus Christ. To him be the glory and the power for ever and ever. Amen.

I'm not claiming to understand all the nuances of the meaning here. But it seems obvious Peter is saying what we do matters. If our practicing the act of Godly love towards others covers over a multitude of sins, then even though we may be saved our sins are still effecting us somehow. That's the part I don't know yet. In what way our sins effect us after we accepted Jesus. And I'm bring this up because we're living in a time where even saved people think they can do as they please, without consequences. This is not true, and these verses are but a few that prove this.

We all have sins and some are very hard to give up even when we want to. But we also have other sins that are not so hard to give up once we want to. But the churches have been teaching that all sins are automatically forgiven, to the saved, for so long now, that most Christians see no reason to give any of them up. This is wrong. And these are a few of the scriptures that prove it.

This is the "feel good gospel". It's a watered down version of the truth. People are so used to being spoon fed and so anxious for knowledge, they'll accept anything that's put in front of them. Instead of seeking out the answers for themselves, they rely on books, websites, radio and tv to tell them what they want to hear. And if it contradicts scripture, who cares, our sins are forgiven.

Yeah it's wrong, but the exciting part is, I believe we're witnessing the falling away. The world is being prepped for the entrance of the lawless one.

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11 If anyone speaks, they should do so as one who speaks the very words of God...

hi JTC,

verse 11 hits home for me, because i lead bible study and the gravity of what my task is has weighed heavy upon my heart...it is very serious.

early on it has been a heavy weight to bear, until further maturing into that ever-growing faith where i am learning that the Lord Jesus Christ carries all my burdens.

i believe we should be willing to live and die for what we state concerning God's Holy Word as His representatives in this life.

with this i do not mean to promote inerrancy in what we speak, for we are not one of us perfect...but to simply be aware of that which we know to only be speculation, and then still seek to support and defend that as Truth.

that qualifies as a liar in God's opinion, and His opinion is the only one that truly counts. all those who seek to deceive others, distort or ignore God's truth fall in the same category, and their final destination shall be the lake of fire.

for me this admonition is paramount because, although we may not realize it, openly asserting an opinion and stating it as Truth concerning God's Word is essentially claiming to speak for God Himself.

i did not decide to be a teacher, it is apparently a call to service by the Lord. and so those who decide for themselves to be teachers should very carefully examine if the source of their motives are rooted, in love.

and this is just one of the many pitfalls among the sins that can manifest through our words. i hate to do this, but the first verse just doesn't cut it...this chapter says so much.. love to you all.

James 3:1 My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation. 2 For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body. 3 Behold, we put bits in the horses' mouths, that they may obey us; and we turn about their whole body. 4 Behold also the ships, which though they be so great, and are driven of fierce winds, yet are they turned about with a very small helm, whithersoever the governor listeth. 5 Even so the tongue is a little member, and boasteth great things. Behold, how great a matter a little fire kindleth! 6 And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell. 7 For every kind of beasts, and of birds, and of serpents, and of things in the sea, is tamed, and hath been tamed of mankind: 8 But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison. 9 Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God. 10 Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be. 11 Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter? 12 Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? either a vine, figs? so can no fountain both yield salt water and fresh. 13 Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom. 14 But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth. 15 This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish. 16 For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work. 17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy. 18 And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.

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Guest ninhao

Yeah it's wrong, but the exciting part is, I believe we're witnessing the falling away. The world is being prepped for the entrance of the lawless one.

Exciting and sad I think.

Mal 4:5-6 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD: (6) And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

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Hi John.

Yes our sin affects us even after it is forgiven.

1Cr 11:28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of [that] bread, and drink of [that] cup.

1Cr 11:29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

1Cr 11:30 For this cause many [are] weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

1Cr 11:31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.

1Cr 11:32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

There is a nice contrast seen in these verses that helped me to better understand the difference between how God works with us versus unbelievers. We actually get it harder for our sin in this life than they do. As Asaph wrote in pslam 73, his foot almost slipped because he saw Gods people suffering chastisement while the heathen were seemingly getting away with everything.

Sin for us is very costly.

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Guest shiloh357

In the past few days these verses of scripture keep coming at me. What I mean is I have many of my favorite Internet pages set up to give me a "verse of the day". And many have been giving me this. It's in 1 Peter Ch 4:

. 8 Above all, love each other deeply, because love covers over a multitude of sins. 9 Offer hospitality to one another without grumbling. 10 Each of you should use whatever gift you have received to serve others, as faithful stewards of God’s grace in its various forms. 11 If anyone speaks, they should do so as one who speaks the very words of God. If anyone serves, they should do so with the strength God provides, so that in all things God may be praised through Jesus Christ. To him be the glory and the power for ever and ever. Amen.

I'm not claiming to understand all the nuances of the meaning here. But it seems obvious Peter is saying what we do matters. If our practicing the act of Godly love towards others covers over a multitude of sins, then even though we may be saved our sins are still effecting us somehow. That's the part I don't know yet. In what way our sins effect us after we accepted Jesus. And I'm bring this up because we're living in a time where even saved people think they can do as they please, without consequences. This is not true, and these verses are but a few that prove this.

We all have sins and some are very hard to give up even when we want to. But we also have other sins that are not so hard to give up once we want to. But the churches have been teaching that all sins are automatically forgiven, to the saved, for so long now, that most Christians see no reason to give any of them up. This is wrong. And these are a few of the scriptures that prove it.

I think you may be overstating a bit what "the churches" (overly broad generalization) have been teaching about forgiveness. The blood of Jesus covers all sins, past present and future. The Bible never teaches that some sins are covered and others are not. Where I think the problem lies is with understanding the God-ward and Man-ward side of forgiveness. From God's standpoint, man is forgiven because His justice was completely satisfied at the cross. However from the man-ward side of things, forgiveness must be appropriated. The tragedy is that while salvation is provided for everyone as a free gift, many fail to accept it, to make it their own.

Think of it like this: You buy someone a birthday present and you wrap it up and place it on a table in your home. Someone else sees it and asks about it and you would say, "that's so-and-so" birthday present. From your perspective, the present already belongs to them, but they will not enjoy the present until they receive it for themselves.

What we do matters, that is true. What we do or don't do doesn't determine whether we are saved, though. If our actions directly impacted our salvation, no human being on the earth would be saved for more than a few hours. God's standard is 100%, absolute, unwavering perfection, so if salvation depends on living right, one nano-second of a lustful thought will doom you to hell. Salvation is fool-proofed. God designed the New Covenant to be unbreakable by us.

Sins affect us in two basic ways according to Scripture. They keep us out of fellowship with God and to a degree, out of fellowship with other believers. In addition, our sins bring about shame and condemnation. God doesn't guilt us. He convicts us. God will not shame, condemn or embarrass us. He convicts us and forgives us. The whole point about confessing our sins and asking for forgiveness is not about securing our salvation. When we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness (I Jn 1:9-10). The part that is getting cleansed is our conscience. Our conscience is cleansed by His blood so that we are not held prisoner under the weight of guilt and shame.

The curse of sin is what keeps people out of heaven, though. There is nothing you can do that will send you to hell or to heaven. We don't go to heaven by our good deeds and we don't go to hell by our sins. The only reason people go to hell is that they stepped out into eternity without Jesus.

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In the past few days these verses of scripture keep coming at me. What I mean is I have many of my favorite Internet pages set up to give me a "verse of the day". And many have been giving me this. It's in 1 Peter Ch 4:

. 8 Above all, love each other deeply, because love covers over a multitude of sins. 9 Offer hospitality to one another without grumbling. 10 Each of you should use whatever gift you have received to serve others, as faithful stewards of God’s grace in its various forms. 11 If anyone speaks, they should do so as one who speaks the very words of God. If anyone serves, they should do so with the strength God provides, so that in all things God may be praised through Jesus Christ. To him be the glory and the power for ever and ever. Amen.

I'm not claiming to understand all the nuances of the meaning here. But it seems obvious Peter is saying what we do matters. If our practicing the act of Godly love towards others covers over a multitude of sins, then even though we may be saved our sins are still effecting us somehow. That's the part I don't know yet. In what way our sins effect us after we accepted Jesus. And I'm bring this up because we're living in a time where even saved people think they can do as they please, without consequences. This is not true, and these verses are but a few that prove this.

We all have sins and some are very hard to give up even when we want to. But we also have other sins that are not so hard to give up once we want to. But the churches have been teaching that all sins are automatically forgiven, to the saved, for so long now, that most Christians see no reason to give any of them up. This is wrong. And these are a few of the scriptures that prove it.

I think you may be overstating a bit what "the churches" (overly broad generalization) have been teaching about forgiveness. The blood of Jesus covers all sins, past present and future. The Bible never teaches that some sins are covered and others are not. Where I think the problem lies is with understanding the God-ward and Man-ward side of forgiveness. From God's standpoint, man is forgiven because His justice was completely satisfied at the cross. However from the man-ward side of things, forgiveness must be appropriated. The tragedy is that while salvation is provided for everyone as a free gift, many fail to accept it, to make it their own. Think of it like this: You buy someone a birthday present and you wrap it up and place it on a table in your home. Someone else sees it and asks about it and you would say, "that's so-and-so" birthday present. From your perspective, the present already belongs to them, but they will not enjoy the present until they receive it for themselves

If you are claiming that all future sins are automatically forgiven, can you provide scriptural references?

What we do matters, that is true. What we do or don't do doesn't determine whether we are saved, though. If our actions directly impacted our salvation, no human being on the earth would be saved for more than a few hours. God's standard is 100%, absolute, unwavering perfection, so if salvation depends on living right, one nano-second of a lustful thought will doom you to hell. Salvation is fool-proofed. God designed the New Covenant to be unbreakable by us.

Salvation is not unconditional. Your assertion that no human would remain saved for more than a few hours based upon our [sinful] actions is a red herring argument. Single sins that are repented of, in and of themselves do not result in loss of salvation as God is gracious to forgive (1 Jn 1:9). However the Bible does warn that the practice of habitual sin results in separation from God and distinguishes those who belong to God and those who belong to the devil (1 John 3). The New Covenant contains promises and stipulations mandated upon both parties to the covenant. God of course is always faithful to keep his obligation to the covenant but the same cannot said of humans who can choose to pursue obedience or disobedience. While no man is saved by good works, it is also true that no one will be saved without good works; or to put it another way, salvation is not by obedience but to obedience. He who does not obey God demonstrates that he is not saved by grace through faith.

Sins affect us in two basic ways according to Scripture. They keep us out of fellowship with God and to a degree, out of fellowship with other believers. In addition, our sins bring about shame and condemnation. God doesn't guilt us. He convicts us. God will not shame, condemn or embarrass us. He convicts us and forgives us. The whole point about confessing our sins and asking for forgiveness is not about securing our salvation. When we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness (I Jn 1:9-10). The part that is getting cleansed is our conscience. Our conscience is cleansed by His blood so that we are not held prisoner under the weight of guilt and shame.

I'm unclear as to what you mean by "out of fellowship" as one is either abiding in Christ or not abiding. 1 John 1:7 states: "But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin." The cleansing blood of Jesus is efficacious based upon the requisite condition that we are walking in the light. No such assurance is given to those who persist in walking in darkness.

The curse of sin is what keeps people out of heaven, though. There is nothing you can do that will send you to hell or to heaven. We don't go to heaven by our good deeds and we don't go to hell by our sins. The only reason people go to hell is that they stepped out into eternity without Jesus.

I will disagree as unconfessed and unrepentant sin will indeed write one's ticket to hell.

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Elhanan, I think you're seeing what I'm seeing. The verse in my OP I was hoping for discussion on is to love each other deeply, because love covers a multitude of sins. If all sins after salvation were automatically forgiven, then why is Peter telling us to treat reach other with Godly love, because doing so will cover our sins? I think he's saying that because all future sins are not automatically forgiven. But when we follow the 2nd greatest commandment that Jesus gave us, that somehow makes up for many sins we have committed, and probably sins we don't know we committed, and sins of omission. That is sins that we commit by not doing something. I guess a good example would be not helping someone in need, when you easily can.

Food for thought.

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For the most part, I agree with you JTC however, I would say that ultimately it is the blood of Christ which covers our sins. Having said that as you point out, what we do or don't do - and how we treat each other - does indeed count for much as Eph 2:10 proclaims that we were created to "do good works." The term "works" often gets a bad rap among believers as it is often associated with earning one's way to heaven but as James points out, true saving faith is manifested by our works. Works done out of obedience to the leading of the Spirit are never condemned and obedience is not an option in the believer's life but mandatory. Note that Heb 5:9 states: "and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who OBEY him." Eternal salvation is not promised to the disobedient. Perhaps our love for God and our love for our neighbors is of such importance that Matt 25 underscores its importance by noting the contrast between having love and not having love for others along with its ultimate consequences:

31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

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Guest shiloh357
]If you are claiming that all future sins are automatically forgiven, can you provide scriptural references?

IIam not saying that all future sins are automatically forgiven. I am saying that all future sins are paid for by Jesus on the cross. They have been dealt with and the blood of Jesus covers them all. Forgiveness must still be appropriated. But to say that there are sins that the blood of Jesus hasn't covered is not supported by any Scripture.

Salvation is not unconditional. Your assertion that no human would remain saved for more than a few hours based upon our [sinful] actions is a red herring argument.
No, it is not red herring. It fits with the context of the conversation. As I stated, God's standard for perfection is 100%. There is no margin for error. If what you do affects your salvation, then one sin is all it takes. It only took one sin for Adam to be separated from God.

The New Covenant contains promises and stipulations mandated upon both parties to the covenant. God of course is always faithful to keep his obligation to the covenant but the same cannot said of humans who can choose to pursue obedience or disobedience.

The New Covenant is not between God and man. The New Covenant is between the Father and Jesus. They are the only guarantors of the Covenant. This is typified in the Abrahamic covenant when God did not allow Abraham to walk between the animals halves with Him. God alone walked between the halves and thus the full responsibility for the stipulations of the Covenant was God's alone. In the same way, God did not allow man to make covenant with Him. The Father and Jesus made the New Covenant nothing we can do can break their covenant. We are nothing beneficiaries of the New Covenant. Our good deeds are the fruit of salvation, not the means of obtaining salvation.

I'm unclear as to what you mean by "out of fellowship" as one is either abiding in Christ or not abiding.

I mean that you can be a Christian and live out of fellowship with Jesus. Being out of fellowship means that one is not walking as close to the Lord, not studying the Scriptures, not spending time in prayer. It doesn't mean that they are necessarily out living in sin. I agree that those living in habitual sin show themselves not to be genuine believers, but simply living out of fellowship with God doesn't mean that one is living a wicked lifestyle.

I will disagree as unconfessed and unrepentant sin will indeed write one's ticket to hell.

The Bible does not teach that. In fact, the only place the Bible mentins the confession of sin to God is 1 John and it is only referring to cleansing of the conscience, not the cleansing of the heart. If unconfessed sin keeps you out of heaven, then no one is saved becaue I doubt anyone of us can claim that we have absolutely NO unconfessed sin. I can imagine that there are sins you may have forgotten about that never got confessed. You cannot guarantee otherwise.

If we cannot have any unconfessed sins, and that sends us to hell, then having an unconfessed sin is a sin in and of itself and if it sends us to hell, then we are saved by works and not by grace. Your position on salvation is internally inconsistent. You are claiming that we are not saved by works but are claiming that we must confess our sins to God in order to remain saved. You cannot have it both ways.

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