No Scripture Identifies the Time for the Rapture

[Montana Marv]

This Rapture topic is based on Two major sets of Scriptures.

 

The first being:

 

Matt 24:36 - No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.  to add further; v 37, 38 -  as in the days of Noah, so will it be at the coming of the Son of Man.  For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered into the Ark.

 

The Second being:

 

John 1:1, 2, 14 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God,  He was in the beginning with God...  And the Word was made flesh and made his dwelling among us.  Being the Word is Jesus.

 

Here we see that all the Spoken Word and all the Written Word (Bible) is from Jesus the Son.  Everything contained in the Scriptures is of Jesus the Son.  He knows everything which is in the Word (Bible), because He is the Word.

 

Look at the words before Noah entered the Ark.  People eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage.  They were having a good ole happy time.  Just as people are acting today.  A time of merriment.

 

In Contrast; those during the  70th Week are going through terrible times.  Earthquakes, severe famines, all the grasses burning up, hiding in the rocks, all living creatures in the sea dying, the sun searing people.  Calamity, people being distraught.  People living in fear, was is going to come up next. 

 

This is a totally different environment than what was going on before the flood.  Having a big party.

 

Now back to the main point;  Scripture does not give a hint of when the Rapture will occur, for only God the Father knows, Not God the Son (Word).  If you say it is in Scripture, you make God a liar, for He is the only one who knows the time of the Rapture.  How many god the fathers do we have out here knowing the timing of the Rapture.

 

This is a difficult subject, everyone has their opinion, they try to base it on Scripture, which is of Jesus.  That is where most fail.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

 

[missmuffet]

I agree Marv.

[nikki1]

Matt 24:36 - No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father

 

 

John 1:1, 2, 14 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God, He was in the beginning with God... And the Word was made flesh and made his dwelling among us. Being the Word is Jesus.

 

Hi Montana Marv:

 

My thoughts .....

 

　

　

Before Jesus' crucifixion  He said the Father alone knew the day and hour of His return. In this respect, and others in Scripture, we understand that Jesus (the Son) was in full submission to His Father's will, and thus He told His disciples that only His Father knew the date of His return; even though Jesus was God in the flesh and dwelt among men. When Jesus the Son came to earth, He separeted Himself from God the Father, (Matthew 27:45-46)but Jesus was still was under the direction of God the Father  via the Holy Spirit,(Luke 3:22) and doing what His Father told Him to do.

 

I am of the opinion this is why Jesus told his disciples the verse described above. (Matt. 24:36) God the Father, at that time, did not want the disciples or anyone else to know the exact time of Jesus' return. However, Jesus gave us many clues such as is outlined in Matthew 24 vs. 29-31 aka "after the tribulation of those days........"

 

It wasn't until after the resurrection of Jesus that he became omnipotent, when Jesus became glorified in His resurrection, and one with the Father, that He knew all things (again) Jesus is God now, and there is no doubt in my mind that he knows exactly when He will return because He is omnipotent, and left us with many "signs" through out  the Scriptures to "watch" for. Otherwise, there would be no need to have gone to such great depth in telling His people what to watch for and have it placed into Holy Scripture.

[firestormx]

This Rapture topic is based on Two major sets of Scriptures.

 

The first being:

 

Matt 24:36 - No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.  to add further; v 37, 38 -  as in the days of Noah, so will it be at the coming of the Son of Man.  For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered into the Ark.

In Christ

Montana Marv

While I agree no one can know the day and the hour, I also believe that all the verses above this one in Matthew 24 are given that we may know the season that he might return. Besides, even if we could be told the day, what part of the world would it apply to. How could we possibly know the hour with all the different time zones? If he come back right now, this very second. What hour did he come? Not what hour did he come back for me, but what hour did he return? It's 7:30pm here, which means it's 4:30 on the west coast. It's tomorrow somewhere else in the world at this very second. Do you see my point. It's absolutely impossible with our understanding of time to know the day and hour of his return. ( not mention, the Father alone knows and is not telling anyone).

But I guess my question is, What's the question your asking? If the verses above the one you quoted, don't let us know the season, then what was the point of saying it all. I've always personally believed ( Don't know if I could 100% prove ) that Matthew is the end times from the churches point of view, while revelation is from the worlds point of view.

 

Firestormx

Joseph

[MorningGlory]

 

This Rapture topic is based on Two major sets of Scriptures.

 

The first being:

 

Matt 24:36 - No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.  to add further; v 37, 38 -  as in the days of Noah, so will it be at the coming of the Son of Man.  For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered into the Ark.

In Christ

Montana Marv

While I agree no one can know the day and the hour, I also believe that all the verses above this one in Matthew 24 are given that we may know the season that he might return. Besides, even if we could be told the day, what part of the world would it apply to. How could we possibly know the hour with all the different time zones? If he come back right now, this very second. What hour did he come? Not what hour did he come back for me, but what hour did he return? It's 7:30pm here, which means it's 4:30 on the west coast. It's tomorrow somewhere else in the world at this very second. Do you see my point. It's absolutely impossible with our understanding of time to know the day and hour of his return. ( not mention, the Father alone knows and is not telling anyone).

But I guess my question is, What's the question your asking? If the verses above the one you quoted, don't let us know the season, then what was the point of saying it all. I've always personally believed ( Don't know if I could 100% prove ) that Matthew is the end times from the churches point of view, while revelation is from the worlds point of view.

 

Firestormx

Joseph

 

 

 

Good point about the time zones, firestorm; I had not thought of that. 

[Guest]

It may not give a hint of when, but it certainly 'hints' at a sequence of events. Therefore, we cannot have much of a notion of when, unless and until we see all of the events in the sequence prior it. The best we could do then is say, not until an least "X" happens, and then after that.

 

However, it is not only an issue of identifying those events, but the rapture itself, People cannot even agree on which events foretold in scripture are the rapture, and which are not, and those that have an opinion, do not seem to have such a solid case that they are able to persuade others.

 

I think thought, that citing "no man knows the day nor the hour", is inappropriate to the question, when that passage is examined carefully.

[gnomonist]

This Rapture topic is based on Two major sets of Scriptures.

 

The first being:

 

Matt 24:36 - No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.  to add further; v 37, 38 -  as in the days of Noah, so will it be at the coming of the Son of Man.  For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered into the Ark.

 

The Second being:

 

John 1:1, 2, 14 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God,  He was in the beginning with God...  And the Word was made flesh and made his dwelling among us.  Being the Word is Jesus.

 

Here we see that all the Spoken Word and all the Written Word (Bible) is from Jesus the Son.  Everything contained in the Scriptures is of Jesus the Son.  He knows everything which is in the Word (Bible), because He is the Word.

 

Look at the words before Noah entered the Ark.  People eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage.  They were having a good ole happy time.  Just as people are acting today.  A time of merriment.

 

In Contrast; those during the  70th Week are going through terrible times.  Earthquakes, severe famines, all the grasses burning up, hiding in the rocks, all living creatures in the sea dying, the sun searing people.  Calamity, people being distraught.  People living in fear, was is going to come up next. 

 

This is a totally different environment than what was going on before the flood.  Having a big party.

 

Now back to the main point;  Scripture does not give a hint of when the Rapture will occur, for only God the Father knows, Not God the Son (Word).  If you say it is in Scripture, you make God a liar, for He is the only one who knows the time of the Rapture.  How many god the fathers do we have out here knowing the timing of the Rapture.

 

This is a difficult subject, everyone has their opinion, they try to base it on Scripture, which is of Jesus.  That is where most fail.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

___________________________________

 

Greetings.  I think God left enough maneuvring room to come, but His coming will definitely be at a certain season.  It won't be in the middle of February or some random time.  I don't know what year the end will be yet, but I do know that His coming is compared to Trumpets, i.e. the feast of Trumpets.  On your first point, this is really a statement about the calendar. Today we take it at face value and say that "nobody knows the day or hour" as meaning anytime.  That's our culture.  In theirs, this statement was immediately recognized as the feast of Trumpets because that is the only feast one was not sure the day or hour it would be proclaimed.  They knew when Passover and it's holidays, and Pentecost was to take place, and even Tabernacles before the day.  But the feast of Trumpets was the only feast they had to watch to begin because the month did not commence until the sighting of the new moon.  So that important feast was the only one they could not plan ahead, but they knew when it was at the doorstep. And this agrees with Christ's admonitions to watch.

 

On the second point, Christ came and emptied himself of his omniscience and power (although he was still the Word) and God the Father (not Christ) raised him from the dead.  I took that statement that even he did not know as meaning just what he said, being now a full man instead would not know the hour in the future, any more than we know it.  And angels are not omniscient either, and have limitations.  I think Christ knows now (i.e. "all power is given to me in heaven and in earth"), but even if he did not, it does not bother my faith considering there are two persons there in the Godhead.  The Father is greater than the Son and are separate entities. The Father still has things mapped out on schedule--- and the feast days are the shadows of things to come.

 

So this whole ordeal is really a calendar and timing issue, and one has to understand where the Jewish beliefs were about without attaching our interpretations on what Christ stated.

[Montana Marv]

It may not give a hint of when, but it certainly 'hints' at a sequence of events. Therefore, we cannot have much of a notion of when, unless and until we see all of the events in the sequence prior it. The best we could do then is say, not until an least "X" happens, and then after that.

 

However, it is not only an issue of identifying those events, but the rapture itself, People cannot even agree on which events foretold in scripture are the rapture, and which are not, and those that have an opinion, do not seem to have such a solid case that they are able to persuade others.

 

I think thought, that citing "no man knows the day nor the hour", is inappropriate to the question, when that passage is examined carefully.

 

Omegaman

 

The Answer is that God the Father is the only one who knows the time of the Rapture.  Period    Not the Son, not the angels in heaven, it is not identified in Scripture.  It cannot be tied to another event (or else the Son would know).  The question is appropriate.  The season is now,  Eat, Drink and be marry, give in marriage.  For this was the environment before the door of the Ark was shut.  This same environment exists now.   Watch and be ready.  Now, not 7 years from now.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Montana Marv]

nikki1

 

You are confusing the Second Coming, which everyone will know that day. Which is after the tribulation of those days.   With the Rapture in which no one but the Father knows.

 

The Bride/Church is a gift from the Father to the Son/Bridegroom.  When the Bride is complete, the door is shut; just as in the days of Noah.  There is only one season mentioned, as in the days of Noah when people were eating and drinking and marrying and giving to marriage.  Find a like environment and you will find the season.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Guest]

 

It may not give a hint of when, but it certainly 'hints' at a sequence of events. Therefore, we cannot have much of a notion of when, unless and until we see all of the events in the sequence prior it. The best we could do then is say, not until an least "X" happens, and then after that.

 

However, it is not only an issue of identifying those events, but the rapture itself, People cannot even agree on which events foretold in scripture are the rapture, and which are not, and those that have an opinion, do not seem to have such a solid case that they are able to persuade others.

 

I think thought, that citing "no man knows the day nor the hour", is inappropriate to the question, when that passage is examined carefully.

 

Omegaman

 

The Answer is that God the Father is the only one who knows the time of the Rapture.  Period    Not the Son, not the angels in heaven, it is not identified in Scripture.  It cannot be tied to another event (or else the Son would know).  The question is appropriate.  The season is now,  Eat, Drink and be marry, give in marriage.  For this was the environment before the door of the Ark was shut.  This same environment exists now.   Watch and be ready.  Now, not 7 years from now.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

Hi Marv, I did not say that the question was innapproprriate, I said the "no man knows the day nor the hour" citation, is inappropriate to the question. Sorry if I was unclear. I guess I should explain some reasons.

 

First off, we should not take the license to change the wording in our mind such that Jesus said:

 

No man will ever know the day nor the hour. This was said about 2000 years ago in the present tense of that time.

Also, Jesus did not say He would never know, He may not be so limited now, that He has ascended back to the Father, perhaps, He is omniscient, I cannot say. 

 

We also also never said, no one knows the epoc, the sequence, the era etc, he used specfically small units of time, day and hour, was that an coincidence, or is it possible, that we cannot know with precision, but we can know approximately?

 

What else did He not say? He did not say this was about the Rapture. Pretribbers make a big deal about the idea, that the rapture is to take the church before the tribulation, but the context in which Jesus is speaking, is about His visible coming after the tribulation, that is what He just finished describing before the "no man knows comment", so for that reason also, it is not appropriate to the question of the timing of the rapture, UNLESSS the rapture is post trib.

 

Now, since at some point in time, when the rapture occurs, someone certainly will notice, and they will know, which just goes to the obvious point that we cannot assume He meant no one would ever know. When we stop reading into the text, things that it never says, pre-trib evidences seem to just dissappear it seems to me,

 

You mentioned the "as it was in the time of Noah" passage as well, Also not appropriate to the rapture, the bible refutes that notion itself.

 

38“For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be.

 

In that scenario, there are two groups of people. Those who were marrying and giving in marriage, and they did not understand until the flood took them away, and then there was Noah, and his family.

 

Noah and his family were not marrying and giving in marriage, they were all, already married. The also were not the ones who did not understand, they were making a boat becuase they understood prefectly. The were not taken by surprise, they were preparing. The ones taken are not a picture of those taken in the rapture, the taken are taken to destruction. Noah and his family were prepared and protected, that is the more accurate analogy. Left behind, is Noah and family, the taken, are the lost. No pretrib rapture picture here.

 

 35“There will be two women grinding at the same place; one will be taken and the other will be left. 36[“Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other will be left.”]37And answering they said to Him, “Where, Lord?”

 

(where what? where will they be taken?)

 

 

And He said to them, “Where the body is, there also the vultures will be gathered.”

 

I think Jesus is saying there, they will be taken to their deaths, where the cultures gather, not to a meeting with Jesus, what do you think?

 

You might benefit from the video series on imminence here in the video section, I doubt it will change your mind, but I do not think you can maintain confidence in an any moment coming as being taught by scripture, but of course we are free to speculate.

 

I often wonder, and perhaps you can answer:

 

for those who hold that Jesus can come at any time, how long has this been the case? In other word, when Jesus ascended, could he have come back in 20 seconds? or were there things that must happen first. If that is.was the case, what was the last one of those things that was fulfilled so that now, His return is imminent?