Mystery Babylon - could it be Mecca / Dubai?

[OakWood]

 

Before I start this thread, I have to say that I haven't given it too much thought as yet, so I'm not here to sell this idea to you, just to express it. If it is riddled with flaws, then so be it.

 

 

Here are a few posers for you:

 

Mecca is built on Seven Hills ( well, surrounded by seven hills, so nearly so...)

 

Although Dubai is part of the U.A.E. who is to say that it may not become part of a greater Saudi empire in the near future?

 

Mecca is under the control of the Saudi Royal family, a fact that may Muslims (especially Shias) are unhappy with. The Beast may wage war upon those who control Mecca in an attempt to gain control of it himself.

 

Dubai, is a city of greed, luxury and enormous wealth, which despite it's conservative Muslim facade, covers a number of vices.

 

Merchants from far at sea will see Babylon burn and smoke rising (oil wells set on fire).

 

Prophecies and interpretations left over from the mid-nineteenth century and the parallel heresies of the twentieth have clouded the interpretations of many.   Clarification and refocusing of Biblical priorities is essential before any substantive observations can be made.

 

First if all it should be remembered that Israel, not any western nation, is the primary focus of ALL prophetic activity.  Events which directly affect Israel and the people of the Levant will indeed affect all nations, but it can be more accurately interpreted like ripples in a pond that roll away from the center of a rock's plunge into the water.   The ripples of events in the near east will affect everyone one way or another, but supposition that the center of all activity is elsewhere is simply not indicated in Biblical text or in Islamic eschatology, which is chillingly similar.

 

While it may not yet be revealed who or what mystery Babylon is, it may be clearly seen who the parties are in play.  According to the texts of Ezekiel, Daniel and the writers of the New Testament, all those allied against Israel and Christ are people and nations who now occupy what we call the Levant of the modern age - Arabia and the middle east.   Proof lies in exact interpretation of the words of Jesus himself as well as the apostles.  The very term anti-Christ holds the key.  Moving the Hollywood interpretations to one side, the Bible indicates that the a/c is the embodiment of everything Jesus is not.   In point of fact, Islam is THE ONLY religious political system to arise in all the time since Christ walked the earth that fully and completely identifies at every point with the ideology and behavior of the anti-Christ.

 

The initial post of this thread ignores the fact that Muslims are notoriously DISunified.   There are two main groups; the shiite and the sunni.  Both have been locked in struggle with one another for centuries.  There is no known person or group at present which allows for any sort of unification of purpose.   He who is called al-Mahdi, the 12th imam of Shia Islam is said to be such a figure.   Islamic eschatology points to this one figure as a unifying personality for international Islam.   If such a person is revealed, he will be a terrible leader to be reckoned with.

 

As an aside, the central capitals for the principle Muslim groups are Riyadh, Doha & the GCC for the Sunnis.   Damascus, Tehran and Beirut are the leadership capitals for Shiite Muslims.   It should be noted also that the majority of Muslims do NOT live in the Levant.   Oddly the Biblical texts limit the antiChrist's influence to the nations which immediately surround Israel.   In Biblical text as well as our media outlets today, the principle political, economic and military threat to Israel comes from the same groups identified by Daniel, Ezekiel and the apostles of the New Testament.    Western nations only play a peripheral role.   Forget about Rome, Washington, London, etc.

 

and that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...

 

"The initial post of this thread ignores the fact that Muslims are notoriously DISunified.   There are two main groups; the shiite and the sunni.  Both have been locked in struggle with one another for centuries."

 

That is a major point. On rare occasions they can be united temporarily for a common cause. Destroying Israel would a common cause, for example.

It does mention in Ezekiel 38-39 that the armies who attack Israel will suffer the wrath of God and will end up attacking each other. I expect that Sunnis will blame their misfortune on the Shia and vice-versa.

As for the time of the Beast, Shia and Sunni could well end up being unified if they recognise who they both believe to be the Mahdi. Especially if the Mahdi performs miracles that they will believe is a sign from Allah.

[rjp34652]

 

 

Before I start this thread, I have to say that I haven't given it too much thought as yet, so I'm not here to sell this idea to you, just to express it. If it is riddled with flaws, then so be it.

 

 

Here are a few posers for you:

 

Mecca is built on Seven Hills ( well, surrounded by seven hills, so nearly so...)

 

Although Dubai is part of the U.A.E. who is to say that it may not become part of a greater Saudi empire in the near future?

 

Mecca is under the control of the Saudi Royal family, a fact that may Muslims (especially Shias) are unhappy with. The Beast may wage war upon those who control Mecca in an attempt to gain control of it himself.

 

Dubai, is a city of greed, luxury and enormous wealth, which despite it's conservative Muslim facade, covers a number of vices.

 

Merchants from far at sea will see Babylon burn and smoke rising (oil wells set on fire).

 

Prophecies and interpretations left over from the mid-nineteenth century and the parallel heresies of the twentieth have clouded the interpretations of many.   Clarification and refocusing of Biblical priorities is essential before any substantive observations can be made.

 

First if all it should be remembered that Israel, not any western nation, is the primary focus of ALL prophetic activity.  Events which directly affect Israel and the people of the Levant will indeed affect all nations, but it can be more accurately interpreted like ripples in a pond that roll away from the center of a rock's plunge into the water.   The ripples of events in the near east will affect everyone one way or another, but supposition that the center of all activity is elsewhere is simply not indicated in Biblical text or in Islamic eschatology, which is chillingly similar.

 

While it may not yet be revealed who or what mystery Babylon is, it may be clearly seen who the parties are in play.  According to the texts of Ezekiel, Daniel and the writers of the New Testament, all those allied against Israel and Christ are people and nations who now occupy what we call the Levant of the modern age - Arabia and the middle east.   Proof lies in exact interpretation of the words of Jesus himself as well as the apostles.  The very term anti-Christ holds the key.  Moving the Hollywood interpretations to one side, the Bible indicates that the a/c is the embodiment of everything Jesus is not.   In point of fact, Islam is THE ONLY religious political system to arise in all the time since Christ walked the earth that fully and completely identifies at every point with the ideology and behavior of the anti-Christ.

 

The initial post of this thread ignores the fact that Muslims are notoriously DISunified.   There are two main groups; the shiite and the sunni.  Both have been locked in struggle with one another for centuries.  There is no known person or group at present which allows for any sort of unification of purpose.   He who is called al-Mahdi, the 12th imam of Shia Islam is said to be such a figure.   Islamic eschatology points to this one figure as a unifying personality for international Islam.   If such a person is revealed, he will be a terrible leader to be reckoned with.

 

As an aside, the central capitals for the principle Muslim groups are Riyadh, Doha & the GCC for the Sunnis.   Damascus, Tehran and Beirut are the leadership capitals for Shiite Muslims.   It should be noted also that the majority of Muslims do NOT live in the Levant.   Oddly the Biblical texts limit the antiChrist's influence to the nations which immediately surround Israel.   In Biblical text as well as our media outlets today, the principle political, economic and military threat to Israel comes from the same groups identified by Daniel, Ezekiel and the apostles of the New Testament.    Western nations only play a peripheral role.   Forget about Rome, Washington, London, etc.

 

and that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...

 

"The initial post of this thread ignores the fact that Muslims are notoriously DISunified.   There are two main groups; the shiite and the sunni.  Both have been locked in struggle with one another for centuries."

 

That is a major point. On rare occasions they can be united temporarily for a common cause. Destroying Israel would a common cause, for example.

It does mention in Ezekiel 38-39 that the armies who attack Israel will suffer the wrath of God and will end up attacking each other. I expect that Sunnis will blame their misfortune on the Shia and vice-versa.

As for the time of the Beast, Shia and Sunni could well end up being unified if they recognise who they both believe to be the Mahdi. Especially if the Mahdi performs miracles that they will believe is a sign from Allah.

 

 

Agreed.  Totally.  

 

History records, for example, that Muslims seemed not to care very much about the issue of the Crusades as far as Christian involvement is concerned.  Why should they?  They won did they not?  Since when does a winner harbor long standing grudges in such a matter?  The Seljuk Turks and the Mongols posed a greater threat at the time.  The great Muslim armies that eventually swept Christians out of the Levant were primarily organized to combat the Mongol threat, which had reached as far into Muslim territory as Damascus.  

 

It is Israel that is the keystone in the arch of prophecy.  Muslims didn't hold grudges against the Christian west until the west supported Israel.  From1948 onward the grudge has become increasingly inflamed.   Even OBL said so, though none in the media remember his words.  One's enemy can sometimes teach you more than a friend.

 

Your quote of Ezekiel and interpretation of it fits the historic pattern of Muslim/Arab tribal organization.  It fits very well and I can think of none other that does so.

 

but that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...

[Montana Marv]

Israel will not follow a Muslim leader.  A Muslim leader will not have compassion on Israel.  Jews are considered pigs and dogs, only to be killed.  Therefore no Temple to be built.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

[OakWood]

Israel will not follow a Muslim leader.  A Muslim leader will not have compassion on Israel.  Jews are considered pigs and dogs, only to be killed.  Therefore no Temple to be built.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

One of the reasons why I'm not entirely convinced that the End Times religion will be Islam. Islam could well be defeated before then in the Ezekiel war.

 

However, it is still possible for Islam to be the Beast's religion. Although you say that Israel won't follow it, there are many fallen Jews in Israel who have a dhimmi attitude towards Islam, and believe that Muslims worship the same god as they do. Remember, those that follow the Beast are deluded anyway. Islam is very good at deceiving. It often pretends to be extremely peaceful. Muslims will say anything that they wish the enemy to hear. There are a number of Jewish rabbis today, fools that they are, that have a tremendous amount of respect for Islam. They are in denial that Muslims wish them harm and believe that Muslim hatred stems from the politics of Jerusalem ownership.

A charismatic figure that promises peace, may do a deal with the Jews and claim that the Mahdi is the messiah that they have been waiting for all this time. He could point out the similarities between Islam and Judaism (no pork, for example) and he may claim that the Jews were wrong to deny their Islamic messiah, that Jesus was a fraud, Christians have been deceived and that Mohammed was the final messenger who's mission was to inform the Jews of their coming messiah. Many fallen or lapsed Jews may fall for this.

The 144,000 will know better of course, and so will many other Jews, but a corrupt and confused Israeli government may well fall for the lie.

 

A second option is that the Beast does not 'reveal' his true religion until he is firmly in power in Jerusalem. He will promise World peace, justice and equality for all and then when nobody can resist him, start to show his true colours and enforce Sharia law. The difference here may well be the difference between the relatively peaceful first three and a half years, and the violent final three and a half years where beheadings and persecutions become the norm.

[bfloydo]

Hello- Everyone!

      Wouldn't we just love to know all the who,what,when,wheres and whys......but we can only imagine...

It has been long supposed by many that Rome is the city of 7hills(Aventine,Palatina,Servian,Caelian,Capitolina,Esquilina,Viminal,Quirinal)and that is pretty impressive but what about the other 2 hills to the north,Tiber and Pincian

    I don't  think there is a country that  that does not have a city that claims to be the imfamous Mystery Babylon(and so it is referred to appropriately).I can remember years ago when every little triviality sparked the need to research in my mind and this was one of them......I recall making a list of all(rather many)of the cities  and alphabetizing them(lol)....I started with America(Albany,San Diego,Providence ,Richmond,Cinncinnati,Seattle-to name a few)and on to Asia all the way to Yugoslavia,with cities like Nigeria,Athens,Jerusalem,Brussels,Prague ...etc...

    After months of research(lol),I asked myself...."What does it really Matter?" I mean not to offend anyone qwith a curious mind but this search,I tell you,is futile.......Azuthy,Can it be Mecca,why not?If it can be Albany ,New York then it could be anyplace.....I hope you see the humor in what I am saying....Just know Jesus is the Son of God,raised on the 3rd day,our Lord & savior....love Him with every ounce of yourself and don't sweat the rest!

 

                                                                       May God bless us all and He is more than worthy of our praise!

                                                                                                            Halleluliah!!!!!     Kwik

 LOL... I agree whole heartedly ... and for the sake of playing around..... I say you cant find a greater Babylon than the babble-on in US Politics, No nation is decaying morally and financially

faster than the USA, No nation has more Lawyers at the helm than the USA( Executive, Judicial, aprox. 70% congress ).. who in their right mind would have Lawyers in charge(Jesus said" Woe to the Lawyers--Lawgivers), No nation is more geared to a me, me, me attitude and not wanting to take responsibility for their own actions, USA is the most powerful militarily, No nation in recent times has been more blessed than the USA,  The USA seems to be aggressively removing God from it policies and foundations......... and at the present time it would be hard to argue that the USA is not an Obama Nation(lol)..........the USA seems like a good place to start    Grr... I live in the USA  

[Littlelambseativy]

Interestingly, Jerusalem is built on 7 hills! I guess that is why  it is called Mystery Babylon!

[OakWood]

Interestingly, Jerusalem is built on 7 hills! I guess that is why  it is called Mystery Babylon!

 

Jerusalem though, is not by the coast.

[Littlelambseativy]

My point was that there are many cities on 7 hills including New York and others - check them out - I do not think the Christian needs to worry though most curious we. The reason we all guess is because it is a mystery not for us to know. 

[kwikphilly]

Blessings & Greetings bfloydo!

      So very true....sad,but true....no denying what you say......oh,God bless America......we are not headed in a good direction at all.

Littlelambseativy....I see your point ...that is exactly what I I said also,may ,many ,many cities.......& one of the many mysteries we will have to wait to unfold.......praise & glory to God

                                                                                                                      With love,in Christ-Kwik

[rjp34652]

Israel will not follow a Muslim leader.  A Muslim leader will not have compassion on Israel.  Jews are considered pigs and dogs, only to be killed.  Therefore no Temple to be built.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

I beg to differ.  Israel is already headed in that direction.  

 

Constant wars and threats have worn down the citizenry.  They are tired of decades of war and will welcome anything that comes close to an offer of peace in the region.   Don't forget Christ's warning, 'when they cry peace and safety, sudden destruction will come upon them'.  And again there is the warning of the abomination of desolation which suggests acceptance of a former enemy.

 

The lesson of history is that people do not remember history.   In America the people have forsaken their inheritance for a bowl of porridge on sale at your local soup-r-market.   Jews are subject to human nature too and may be equally willing to sell their integrity for peace and security.   All that's required is an attitude of appeasement.  The world is nearly there right now.

 

and that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...