Mystery Babylon - could it be Mecca / Dubai?

[BlindSeeker]

 

Plus, this battle has nothing to do with Israel, since Israel "was not" at the time

 

I have no idea why you stuck("Israel was not - therefore the beast was not") after Rome.

 

Israel "was" birth as a nation in Egypt and its deliverance from the captivity thereof. 

It continued as a nation through its captivities of Babylon, Mede/Persia/ Greece and Rome.

 

Rome being as Daniel said was, "diverse from all the others, exceeding dreadful, whose teeth were of iron, and his nails of brass; which devoured, brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with his feet," literally destroyed Israel religious and civil economy completely and resulting in the disbursement of any residual Jewish people throughout the  whole earth. At this point, Israel which "was" officially becomes categorically "is not."

That is why I stated Israel "was not" at the time.

 

In 1948, Israel was rebirth on land that was part of the British Empire and now emphatically “is” a nation once again.

 

The beast is correlated with Israel’s existence as a functioning nation, which “was, is not, yet is.” Therefore, the beast also, “was, is not, yet is.”

 

WWII and its conclusion brought about the decline of the British Empire, the rebirth of Israel and served to catapult America into global supremacy after President Truman called down fire from heaven (the dropping of bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki) causing the whole word to marvel/wonder and say “Who can make war against that.”

 

But, the righteous judgment of God requires “He who leads into captivity shall go into captivity; he who kills with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.”

 

Therefore, shall her judgment come in one hour.

 

Revelation 18:6 "Render to her just as she rendered to you, and repay her double according to her works; in the cup which she has mixed, mix double for her. 7 "In the measure that she glorified herself and lived luxuriously, in the same measure give her torment and sorrow; for she says in her heart, 'I sit as queen, and am no widow, and will not see sorrow.' 8 "Therefore her plagues will come in one day--death and mourning and famine. And she will be utterly burned with fire, for strong is the Lord God who judges her.

[nikki1]

Blind Seeker

 

The beast is correlated with Israel's existence as a functioning nation, which "was, is not, yet is." Therefore, the beast also, "was, is not, yet is."

 

The problem with your including Israel with the eight kingdom beasts is that Israel never was a kingdom beast in John's or Daniel's vision. So your analogy in your above quote is completely off base

 

 

 

Rome being as Daniel said was, "diverse from all the others, exceeding dreadful, whose teeth were of iron, and his nails of brass; which devoured, brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with his feet," literally destroyed Israel religious and civil economy completely and resulting in the disbursement of any residual Jewish people throughout the whole earth. At this point, Israel which "was" officially becomes categorically "is not."

 

When Rome dispersed the Jews, some Jewish communities remained and continued to exist in the land of Israel, under the leadership of the Roman Empire. Israel never ceased to exist, so for you to say "Israel was not" is in error.. It was during the seventh century that the Islamic beast from Arabia conquered most of the Middle East including "Palestine" (which is the land of Israel), and Jerusalem and the Islamic beast controlled the region until the early 1900's. By this time, there were more Jews and Christians living in the land of Israel.

　

[BlindSeeker]

Blind Seeker

 

The beast is correlated with Israel's existence as a functioning nation, which "was, is not, yet is." Therefore, the beast also, "was, is not, yet is."

 

The problem with your including Israel with the eight kingdom beasts is that Israel never was a kingdom beast in John's or Daniel's vision. So your analogy in your above quote is completely off base

 

Nikki, the purpose of the vision was to give prophecy to the Jews of the things that were going to come upon them. They did not have to be included with the eight kingdom beasts, as Israel has and will survive long past the ones that fall from their height of power. God's Kingdom, of which Israel is a type and shadow of, is the power and the glory that alone will survive forever and ever.

 

 

 

 

Rome being as Daniel said was, "diverse from all the others, exceeding dreadful, whose teeth were of iron, and his nails of brass; which devoured, brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with his feet," literally destroyed Israel religious and civil economy completely and resulting in the disbursement of any residual Jewish people throughout the whole earth. At this point, Israel which "was" officially becomes categorically "is not."

 

When Rome dispersed the Jews, some Jewish communities remained and continued to exist in the land of Israel, under the leadership of the Roman Empire. Israel never ceased to exist, so for you to say "Israel was not" is in error.. It was during the seventh century that the Islamic beast from Arabia conquered most of the Middle East including "Palestine" (which is the land of Israel), and Jerusalem and the Islamic beast controlled the region until the early 1900's. By this time, there were more Jews and Christians living in the land of Israel.

　

 

I did not say the all Jews went into what you seem to infer, extinction, rather that the nation of Israel with its civil structure, defined borders and religious system was destroyed and the Jews dispersed throughout the world. There is a difference between the Jewish people and the state/nation of Israel. Just as I am an American, but I certainly am not America. When America "is not," is I survive, I will still be an American but without a country.

 

Simply get an old map created any time after 70 A.D. and before 1948 and you will not see Israel on it. Simply put, it “was not.”

 

But like it or not, it is a historical fact that Israel at a point in time became a nation and was later destroyed and from that point in history it ceased to be recognized or even mentioned as such by the entire world political system because logic would contest such as Israel “was not” nowhere to be seen, touch, travel to or negotiated with by trade or treaty as there were not only no political heads of state, the was no state.

 

Nonetheless, Israel was rebirth in 1948 receiving some recognition and acceptance by other nations, but not by all. This is why the legitimacy of Israel continues to be contested by the Arabs. It is common knowledge. If this concept so eludes you, oh well. Feel free to believe what you like.

 

[nikki1]

Blind Seeker:

 

It depends upon what you mean as a nation. Simply read your Bible. God has a different perspective than you regarding Israel as a nation. You are looking at it from a secular view, but the biblical viewpoint of the Lord is completely the opposite of what you see:

 

"If those ordinances depart fron before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.

Thus saith theLORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD. Jeremiah 31:36-37

 

Even though you see it differently, The Lord Himself is affirming that the descendants of Israel will not cease to be a nation in His sight ... That could only happen if the fixed order of the heavens ceased to operate in an orderly manner.

 

Yes, Israel's national polity was broken up by the Romans; but their preservation as a distinct people amidst violent persecutions, though scattered among the nations for 1800+centuries is indeed a miracle that only proves God's faithfulness that His Word is true. The Jews ceased not from being a nation through their captivity in Babylon or through their destruction by the Romans; they continue a distinct nation and people to this day. Christ will have a seed to serve him, just as written, as long as the sun and the moon are.

 

He hath also established them for ever and ever; he hath made a decree which shall not pass. Psalm 148:6

 

 

You are misapplying Israel by sticking Israel among the beast kingdoms when you say (Israel was not - therefore the beast was not). In the complete context of John's vision of Rev. 17:11, John is referring to beast kingdoms. Israel has never been referred to as a beast kingdom.

 

John specifically writes in Rev. 17:10 There are seven kings and five have fallen. At the time John wrote this, Rome was number 6 in of the beast empires.

 

Now, look at what John says in the very next verse of Rev. 17:11 "And the beast that was, and is not,

 

Using  your analogy, you are saying that Israel is the beast that was, and is not. The Jewish people have never been a beast kingdom, never in the history of the Jewish people in the land of Israel.

 

To continue on, John writes in Rev. 17:11, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition. In the remainder of the verse, an eighth beast that was, ( meaning before John) BUT IS NOT. One can only conclude the 8th beast isn't about the Roman Empire either, but it is of the seven. This alone excludes Israel.

 

To find out who the seventh beast kingdom is you have to refer further to John's writings in Rev. 13:2, where he speaks of a beast like a leopard, bear, and lion and the dragon gave him his power....This is the beast kingdom "that was" "and is not" (at the time of John's writing).

 

To figure out who the leopard, bear, lion beast or the seventh beast is, you have to go to Daniel's vision in Daniel 7:3-7 where Daniel speaks of these  very same beast kingdoms of the lion, bear (Medo Persia) and a leopard (Greece) who we know now to be Babylon. (lion) Daniel was looking forward at these kingdoms where John, in Rev. 13:2 was looking back.

 

 

 

 

 

 

In this very area that we know as Babylon, who Daniel saw in his vision, sits Syria, Iran and Iraq and all Islamic today. This is who John is referring to as "the beast that was" and is not and fits into having been of the seven in Rev. 17:10

 

The seventh and eighth beasts are Islamic -the Lion, Bear, Leopard of Daniel's vision and satan's final kingdom. Satan's power is manifest in Islamic jihad that is moving around the entire globe today in one way or another.

 

The jihadists hold ultimate power over the world's oil, enslaving everyone.

 

The mortal wound of the first Islamic Jihad was at the Battle of Tours, France.

　

　

 

　

[BlindSeeker]

BlindSeeker

 

A lot of questions;

 

So you reject the notion that any of the heads of the Beast represent Babylon, Mede/Persia, Greece or Rome. Yet assert that because the body has aspects of Daniel's beast, this 8th beast merely has similar attributes of those beasts. Beyond that, you feel there is no real connection. A simple yes or no will suffice since I am looking for clarity of your position.

 

Yes, I reject that notion..  Only one statue, only four empires.  Only four empires of the statue are crushed by the rock.  The Beast of Rev 13:1 (ten toed) confederation of countries has attributes of Babylon, Medo/Persia, and Greece. This is the last Empire, which is an extension of the Roman empire.  This 8th beast is not the Beast of Rev 13:1 who comes up out of the sea,  The 7th beast is not the Beast who comes up out of the sea.  He is the leader of this Beast. (a beast is the leader of the Beast)

 

IN my great grandfathers "day", it would take a man 25 "days" to walk across Montana, walking only during the "day".  Here in one sentence "day" has three different meanings.

 

"Beast" has different applications.  Used as an empire, used as a specific person, even two diverse people.  One must know their beasts.

 

Thanks for the lesson about the various usage of words. Really kinda elementry though. It seems however that you can't get beyond on the statute and only four beasts, perhaps that is why you didn't answer "Who are the five kings which fell, surely history should have a record you can point to? You should at least be able to verify the past even if you cannot accurately predict who in the future." 

 

Why wasn't the woman riding the beast in chapter 13 when it came up out of the sea?

 

The Beast just emerged.  It had no true leader until until one of its leaders had a fatal wound by a sword.  Yet the religious portion of this new government could be the Papacy. Yet it could also be true Babylon where most false religions came from.  For true Babylon  is the crossroads bringing the North, South, East and West together.

 

Well, that all sounds nice, but the angel said in Re 17:9, " And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sits." The woman has been sitting on all seven, including the fall that were already history at the time of the vision . . . the ones I'd like your clarification of.

 

 

Who has made all the merchants of the earth by reason of her costliness? Who is she?

 

Again this is yet future.  America will be bankrupted when things begin to fall in place, no one will want to do business with us.  She is not the United States.

 

If you only new what countries are affected by the the 4th Seal and the 1st Trumpet.  And what areas are affected by the 2nd and 3rd Trumpets.  For these determine who the main players are before the Battle of Armageddon.

You forgot a few of my questions -

 

I strongly disagree with you, but I have already stated my case so I won't further engage in an effort of futility.

But I will say, if you are going to present things in such a teaser fashion as to say, "If you only knew what countries are . . ." It would be more appropriate to just state them and make your point instead of saying it as to insinuate ignorance on my part. Such is neither reasoning nor godly or respectful, for it leaves the one you're speaking to feeling why waste their time speaking to someone who can't even impliment an Christian attitude ot love. You simply come accross as clanging brass.

 

 

But if you wish to make your case, go ahead. But you still haven't addressed the other questions that must be answered if you are going to adaquately make a convincing presentation of your position. A dogmatic assertion isn't very persuasive.

So,

Why does the gender reference switch from masculine to feminine, from beast to city?

 

Why is it when the great city was divided into three parts, the cities of the nations fell? And if the cities of nations fall, is it then end game?

 

[BlindSeeker]

Blind Seeker:

 

It depends upon what you mean as a nation. Simply read your Bible. God has a different perspective than you regarding Israel as a nation. You are looking at it from a secular view, but the biblical viewpoint of the Lord is completely the opposite of what you see:

 

I see you too are given to ridicule in your remarks. I assure you I read my Bible. Please take a minute and think of how such a remark would set with you. I have my convictions which are the result of decades of prayerful study and earnest seeking God on this matter because I am married and have both children and grandchildren which I am greatly concerned about. I certainly do not take the words of the angel lightly -

 Re 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

I understand the surety of God's covenant to the fathers, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and that the posterity would always “beloved for the fathers' sakes.” God keeps His word. Never the less they were “cut off’ in the severity of God because they rejected Jesus. God call forth what is not, for He sees the end from the beginning, so surely He knows Israel would again be establish. But that is not the perspective of the world to which the prophecy s given that they may know the Lord is real, the God of heaven and earth.

 

Esther 3:6 And he thought scorn to lay hands on Mordecai alone; for they had shewed him the people of Mordecai: wherefore Haman sought to destroy all the Jews that were throughout the whole kingdom of Ahasuerus, even the people of Mordecai.

 

Psalm 83:4 They have said, Come, and let us cut them off from being a nation; that the name of Israel may be no more in remembrance.

 

Just because God can call together the dry bones and reassemble them doesn’t mean the nation wasn’t destroyed.

 

Deut. 28:45 And all these curses shall come on you, and shall pursue you and overtake you, until you are destroyed, because you did not listen to the voice of the LORD your God, to keep His commandments and His statutes which He commanded you.  46 And they shall be on you for a sign and for a wonder, and on your seed forever.  47 Because you did not serve the LORD your God with joyfulness and with gladness of heart for the abundance of all things;  48 therefore you shall serve your enemies which the LORD shall send against you, in hunger, and in thirst, and in nakedness, and in the lack of all things. And he shall put a yoke of iron on your neck until he has destroyed you.  49 The LORD shall bring a nation against you from far, from the end of the earth, as the eagle flies; a nation whose tongue you shall not understand,  50 a nation fierce of face who shall not regard the person of the old, nor show favor to the young.  51 And he shall eat the fruit of your cattle and the fruit of your land, until you are destroyed. He shall not leave you grain, wine, or oil, the increase of your livestock, or flocks of your sheep, until he has destroyed you.

 

 

You are misapplying Israel by sticking Israel among the beast kingdoms when you say (Israel was not - therefore the beast was not). In the complete context of John's vision of Rev. 17:11, John is referring to beast kingdoms. Israel has never been referred to as a beast kingdom.

　

 

That is not what I've said or am saying. These nations/empires/beast/heads of the beast are historically linked to Israel as I presented in my original post.

 

Israel was birth as it came out of oppression and captivity of Egypt.

 

Israel was under captivity and/or dominion by Babylon, Mede/Persia, Greece and Rome. Rome being “was different from all the others, very frightening, whose teeth were of iron and his nails of bronze and devoured, broke in pieces, and stamped the rest with his feet.”

 

Israel was rebirth as a functioning nation entity in 1948 on what was previously part of the British Empire.

 

In all that I have never stated Israel was "among the beast kingdoms." I stated that all the beast have a correlation, a historically linking to Israel which "was, is not, yet is."

 

Please quick asserting I am saying something else.

 

John specifically writes in Rev. 17:10 There are seven kings and five have fallen. At the time John wrote this, Rome was number 6 in of the beast empires.　

 

Please identify the first five which were fallen at the time of John.

 

 

Now, look at what John says in the very next verse of Rev. 17:11 "And the beast that was, and is not,

 

Using  your analogy, you are saying that Israel is the beast that was, and is not. The Jewish people have never been a beast kingdom, never in the history of the Jewish people in the land of Israel.

 

 

That is not at all what I stated. I cannot be any clearer than I have been. What I am sharing it nothing more than history.

 

The mortal wound of the first Islamic Jihad was at the Battle of Tours, France.

　　

 

 

I see no credible reason to accept this since the battle wasn't againt Jews and Israel wasn't a nation at the time.

[Montana Marv]

BlindSeeker

 

Who said that "city is feminine.  Does this really matter.  I guess only in your view.

 

This is a world wide earthquake; for all the mountains disappear and there are no more islands.  This greatest of all earthquakes changes the topography of the world.  Kind of like bring it back to the "Garden of Eden".  Everything flowed out from the Garden.  Jerusalem becomes the focal spot of the earth. 
But one must remember that it is the Beast and his ten horns who destroy Babylon (Rev 17:16)

 

Now back to my question.  The 4th Seal, which 1/4 of the world dies by this one event.  It has to be someplace.  North, Central and South America along with Australia.  For those counties hold approx 1/4 of the worlds population.  What about the 1st Trumpet - 1/3 of the world burns up.  Exactly 1/3 of the worlds land masses are occupied by these same countries.  They are not includes in any end time events and have no function just before Armageddon.  There is an army from the North, East, South and A/C's army (revived Rome).  That is it.

 

Now back to dream King Nebuchadnezzar  had. Dan 2:40 - Finally, there will be a fourth kingdom, strong as iron, for iron breaks and smashes everything... v.41 - this will be a divided kingdom.  v. the rock that broke the iron, bronze, silver and gold to pieces.  The Great God has shown the king what will take place in the future.  The dream is true, and the interpretation is trustworthy.

 

Rome has never been conquered.  It just fell apart.  But it will return once again to power.  There are no other great kingdoms, only four.  The Beast which comes up out of the sea with ten horns and seven heads and ten crowns is the extension of the final fourth kingdom.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

[nikki1]

Blind Seeker:

 

The seven beast empires are from Egypt through the Islamic Empire. The Roman Empire fell to the Islamic Empire First Jihad.

 

At the time John wrote his vision, the five kingdoms who had fallen were Egypt, Assyria, Babylonian, Medo-Persia, and Greece. Rome was number 6 and is the one who "is" (Rev. 17:10) when John wrote this.

　

 

 

nikki1, on 30 Jul 2013 - 9:17 PM, said:

The mortal wound of the first Islamic Jihad was at the Battle of Tours, France.

 

 

I see no credible reason to accept this since the battle wasn't against Jews and Israel wasn't a nation at the time.

 

1.The Islamic Caliph had already conquered Jerusalem during this time period, which was part of the first Islamic Jihad. I think this would be a credible reason. It's history you can look up. I provided in my earlier post (2) Israel Biblical timelines for resources and links on the Battle of Tours with a wealth of information online ref. ----> The Islamic caliph or first Islamic Jihad occurred from somewhere in the 600's until 1918.

2.Concerning your idea that Israel wasn't a nation, the Lord says differently.

 

 

 

I see you too are given to ridicule in your remarks

Sorry, ridicule wasn't my intent... I was making a generalized statement concerning this one point when I wrote"Simply read your Bible."

　

[BlindSeeker]

Who said that "city is feminine.  

 

The angel said it by directive of God.

 

Revelation 17:18 And  the WOMAN WHICH THOU SAWEST IS THAT GREAT CITY, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

 

 

Does this really matter.  I guess only in your view.

 

You guess it only matters in my view? Really? So much for having a reverence for Holy Scripture as being given under the unction of the Holy Spirit of God.

 

With such a display of casual dismissal of scriptural detail I am no longer surprised by your position and unwillingness to answer the questions.

 

 

This is a world wide earthquake; for all the mountains disappear and there are no more islands.  This greatest of all earthquakes changes the topography of the world.  Kind of like bring it back to the "Garden of Eden".  Everything flowed out from the Garden.  Jerusalem becomes the focal spot of the earth. 

 

 

That's adding a bit to the text, destroying "the topography of the world.  Kind of like bring it back to the Garden of Eden" Let's see the passage again-

 

Revelation 16:17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done. 18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great. 19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath. 20 And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found. 21 And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.

 

No mention of The Garden of Eden or anything even remotely insinuating any such restoration at this time.

 

 

However, Jerusalem being the place where God has chosen to place His name has always been the focal spot of the earth.

 

Jeremiah 3:17 At that time they shall call Jerusalem the throne of the LORD; and all the nations shall be gathered unto it, to the name of the LORD, to Jerusalem: neither shall they walk any more after the imagination of their evil heart.

 

Jeremiah 33:16 In those days shall Judah be saved, and Jerusalem shall dwell safely: and this is the name wherewith she shall be called, The LORD our righteousness.

 

Ezekiel 48:35 . . . and the name of the city from that day shall be, The LORD is there.

 

Even before the Jews conquered Canaan and it was changed to Israel, it was still the footstool of the Lord and under the rule of Melchizedek, the only person to typify Jesus in both His kingship and priesthood.

 

Genesis 14:18 And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God.

 

Now back to my question.  The 4th Seal, which 1/4 of the world dies by this one event.  It has to be someplace.  North, Central and South America along with Australia.  For those counties hold approx 1/4 of the worlds population.  What about the 1st Trumpet - 1/3 of the world burns up.  Exactly 1/3 of the worlds land masses are occupied by these same countries.  They are not includes in any end time events and have no function just before Armageddon.  There is an army from the North, East, South and A/C's army (revived Rome).  That is it.

 

If there is a question in that statement somewhere, it eludes me. Nevertheless, I don't have any real issues with what you've stated.

 

Now back to dream King Nebuchadnezzar  had. Dan 2:40 - Finally, there will be a fourth kingdom, strong as iron, for iron breaks and smashes everything... v.41 - this will be a divided kingdom.  v. the rock that broke the iron, bronze, silver and gold to pieces.  The Great God has shown the king what will take place in the future.  The dream is true, and the interpretation is trustworthy

 

Yes, through the dream God revealed to Nebuchadnezzar what was going to transpire from the time of his kingdom foreword. The dream did not need to include the prior history of Israel coming out of Egypt or the judgment of Israel (the ten northern tribe) under  Assyria. But just because Nebuchadnezzar's vision did not include it doesn't mean it is excluded from reference in John's vision of the seven headed beast. 

That is why I keep pressing you to please identify the first five which were fallen at the time of John. I have requested this of you at least 3 times now. 

 

 

 

Rome has never been conquered.  It just fell apart.  But it will return once again to power.  There are no other great kingdoms, only four.  The Beast which comes up out of the sea with ten horns and seven heads and ten crowns is the extension of the final fourth kingdom.

 

 

 

Wrong. 

History proves you wrong. 

Why you continue to assert there are only four great kingdoms and yet straightway turn-around and acknowledge the "seven" heads and "ten" horns and "ten" crowns is an ostentatious display of nearsighted exegesis and ignorance of the very intent of the angel's words of wisdom to John and the church.

 

  Re 17:9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

 10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

 11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

 12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

 

 13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.

 

There is a progressions of kings, five historical fallen to the past, one presently ruling over Israel, the seventh yet to come for a short space, then comes the eight (which the entire beast's image represents).

There are also ten kings with separate kingdoms who consent for a brief duration to yield their power and strength unto the beast, an alliance. However, these ten kings while represented as ten horns with ten crowns on the seven heads of the beast, they are nonetheless separate geographically in reality from the empire of eighth beast. All that is said is for one hour they consent to give their power and strength unto the beast. 

Though many read the passage "the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast" as if they receive their kingdom from the beast,  but that is not what the scriptures say. Both the beast and the ten kings had no kingdoms "as yet" (the time of John's vision), but they all "receive power as kings one hour with the beast" in the last days.

To state "The Beast which comes up out of the sea with ten horns and seven heads and ten crowns is the extension of the final fourth kingdom" is to alter the meaning of words of the angel speaking to John by attributing greater authority the word of the angel speaking to Daniel. By doing so you corrupt the text. They are two separate prophetical accountings that have historical overlaps.

[BlindSeeker]

 

I see you too are given to ridicule in your remarks

Sorry, ridicule wasn't my intent... I was making a generalized statement concerning this one point when I wrote"Simply read your Bible."

　

 

Thanks for the apology. 

 

 

Regarding Israel as a nation - 

   

 

 

 

 

 

See also - 

https://www.google.com/search?q=maps+of+palestine+over+time&rlz=1C1SAVM_enUS526US526&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=fln5Uf5lhtL1BLvagOAN&ved=0CC8QsAQ&biw=1745&bih=983#rlz=1C1SAVM_enUS526US526&tbm=isch&oq=maps+of+british+palestine+&gs_l=img.12...642984.642984.2.646571.1.1.0.0.0.0.209.209.2-1.1.0....0.0..1c.1.20.img.dVYwukT__Bw&bav=on.2,or.r_cp.r_qf.&bvm=bv.49967636,d.eWU,pv.xjs.s.en_US.jOYpRJj4zMA.O&fp=f91bc33184e40206&biw=1745&bih=983&q=maps%20of%20british%20palestine