Mystery Babylon - could it be Mecca / Dubai?

[nikki1]

Blind Seeker:

 

I am very much aware of the history of the land of Israel and its divisions, the reborn statehood of Israel in 1948, the partition plan, Israel's wars and peace accords with its hostile arab neighbors, and so forth. Thanks for putting the maps up, but this really doesn't change anything. It is what it is, and God's Word ref. the Jewish people has the final say. No matter how many times the Jews were exiled and or conquered and had the land taken from them, there was always a remnant of this distinct people in Israel who maintained their Jewelry, even if the world nations did not recognize Israel as such. We as Christians recognize God's Word to be the final authority in all things despite what governments and world nations do and say.

 

 

 

The real question should be "Who is the 8th" that goes into perdition.

 

 

 

Now, "the eighth" is either (1) a direct branch or decent from the seventh

 

Bingo, you got it! That would be the present day Islamic Kingdom, whose head leader Emir Abd er Rahman was literally killed at the Battle of Tours in the first Islamic conquest (Jihad) in 732. [And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death;and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast Rev. 13:3

and they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

 

　

Pre-trib people are stuck in the revived Roman Empire theory spearheaded by Hal Lindsey several years ago, when in fact, Rome fell at the hands of the Islamics, all the while right before their very eyes, the Islamic beast kingdom is growing larger and larger, murdering and beheading Christians (nothing's really changed since 732) and affecting the whole world with is second and final satanic jihad. This is the beast kingdom.

　

 

 

　

 

　

　

　

[Montana Marv]

BlindSeeker

 

I never said that the Beast with ten horns and 7 crowns and 10 heads were the same as these other 10  kings who receive there authority but for an hour, did I.  We have Two beast  (individuals) represented by 1. the A/C which leads the Beast which comes up out of the sea, these are the ten toes represented by the fourth empire of Rome in King Neby's dream, this occurs at the onset of the 70th week.  2. While Satan the second beast (individual, or maybe the third if one counts the false prophet as the second) has his own set of ten kings who give there allegiance to him, which occurs near the end of the 70 week, this group is the one who ravages the whore of Babylon (who was affiliated with the Beast who came up out of the sea).

 

So both Daniels account and John's accounts are both accurate.  One angel is not overriding another. 

 

One must know their beasts or Beasts, whether an individual or an empire or part of an empire.  Not all beasts are created equal.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Montana Marv]

Nikki

 

Rome lost power in the 350 AD era.  No one conquered it.  Went from a blend of Caesar/ruler era to that of the Papacy. 

 

King Nebys dream only lists four significant empires.  The fourth and final empire being Rome.

 

Islam will be destroyed in the war of Ezk 38 and 39.  Israel will flourish, building a new Temple, sacrificing until the A/D is set up at the mid point of the 70th week.

 

The Bible is about the God of Israel, not the god of Islam.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

[OakWood]

Nikki

 

Rome lost power in the 350 AD era.  No one conquered it.  Went from a blend of Caesar/ruler era to that of the Papacy. 

 

King Nebys dream only lists four significant empires.  The fourth and final empire being Rome.

 

Islam will be destroyed in the war of Ezk 38 and 39.  Israel will flourish, building a new Temple, sacrificing until the A/D is set up at the mid point of the 70th week.

 

The Bible is about the God of Israel, not the god of Islam.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

The Roman Empire fell when you said it did, but the Holy Roman Empire, well that's a different story. The Empire split in the Eleventh Century, but the Eastern half fell to the Muslims in 1453. Almost one half of Christendom collapsed. If the Western half had collapsed too, then it's likely that there would be no Cistine Chapel, no St. Paul's Cathedral, no modern science or medicine, and everyone in Britain, France, Germany, Italy and so on would be reading the Koran today and regularly praying in Mosques.

It is extremely unlikely that America would ever had been discovered, but if it had, it would have been an Islamic state from day one, and every single Native American from Cherokee to Apache would now be bowing down to Allah five times a day, that is if they weren't living as slaves.

[nikki1]

Montana Marv:

 

 

Rome lost power in the 350 AD era. No one conquered it. Went from a blend of Caesar/ruler era to that of the Papacy.

History shows otherwise.

 

 

King Nebys dream only lists four significant empires.

The Assyrian Empire was irrelavent by the time Daniel wrote the Book of Daniel.

 

There is no shortage of agreement of the first six kingdoms.

http://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=A0geu4wFZQ9ID_QArjJXNyoA?p=egypt+assyria+babylon+medo+persia+greece+rome&y=Search&fr=yfp-t-501-s&ei=UTF-8

 

The Book of Kings  states several times that the entire people of the Kingdom of Israel had been taken into exile by the Assyrians. Ancient Assyria was located in the vicinity of Babylon and is predominently muslim today, and the territory includes the north part of Iraq, southeast Turkey, and northeast Syria, and was a beast kingdom then, and is part of the Islamic Beast Kingdom today and all enemies of Israel.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assyrian_captivity_of_Israel

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assyrian_People

 

 

 

 

Ancient Assyria

 

 

The fourth and final empire being Rome.

Rome is #6 and was conquered by what is today known as the Ottoman Turks and predominately muslim.

 

 

 

Israel will flourish, building a new Temple, sacrificing until the A/D is set up at the mid point of the 70th week.

So say those of the pre-trib mindset, which is just an assumption without biblical evidence.

　

 

 

 

The Bible is about the God of Israel, not the god of Islam.

huh? I really don't know what your above statement has to do with what is being discussed. Anyway, I think the Bible is a history book of the Jewish people and God's plan of salvation for the human race, which is Jesus Christ

 

 

WillowWood:

 

The only reason America did not become an Islamic State is because during the first Islamic Conquest (Jihad), the muslim army was defeated at the Battle of Tours, France with Charles Martel leading the army who defeated the Islamics.  All of Europe would have been Islamic had the Islamics won this decisive battle.  I posted some links to the Battle of Tours, France and most all historians agree that Islam would have taken over Europe had this battle been won.

[Montana Marv]

The thing is which were the four empires of the statue which king Neby saw.  This statue crumbles when the rock not cut by human hands smashes it.  But the rock that struck the statue became a huge mountain and filled the whole earth.  Why then did this rock not strike all these other empires and then fill the whole earth.  This rock smashing the statue of king Nebys dream  is yet future.  King Neby you are that head of Gold.  Finally the fourth empire is of iron, its toes of mixed clay and iron.

 

Dan 2:44 - In the time of those kings (the ten toes), the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed, nor will it be left to another people.  It will crush all those kingdoms and bring them to an end. 

 

Yet Babylon exists during these kings (ten toes).  Babylon may be the religious arm of this empire, or it may be the economic arm of this empire, since many have become rich by her.  So to control trade traffic, it would need to be at the crossroads.  Iraq is at the crossroad of Europe, Asia and Africa.

 

I have seen a lot of empires not mentioned by some of you.  Ottoman, Spanish, Portuguese, German, yet you leave these out.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

[other one]

the Vatican, the small one square mile of the "City of London", and washington dc are three city states that are tied together in a trinity state that makes up Rome today.   their legal system is the old Roman Lex Fori law.  The three together pretty much control the world today. You can trace those responsible for their establishment all the way back to Babel and the days of Nimrod..

[John S]

Nikki - Just one small correction. The Bible is the history of the Israelite people - and NOT just the Jewish people. That is until 10 of the Tribes were lost to history - but NOT to God.

Their descendants live today all across the planet - from Europe to the Western Hemisphere and to a few places in Asia.

[BlindSeeker]

I have seen a lot of empires not mentioned by some of you.  Ottoman, Spanish, Portuguese, German, yet you leave these out.

 

These are were not directly affiliated with Israel birth, captivities or her rebirth.

[JustinM]

 

WW - What do you want me to expand on? The AC isn't going to be Islamic.

Give reasons why, using scripture. That's like me saying that the AC is not going to be Lithuanian and leaving it at that! There are a lot of parallels with Islam and the nature of the Beast.

 

The parallels only exist because when the muhammeden (I think followers of muhammed were called muhammeden before they were called islamists/muslims, etc.) wrote the koran they interlaced verses from the Bible/Torah within their own writings.  I am sure, some muhammeden read the Revelation of John and decided to give their "10th immam" the traits of the person least like Jesus Christ as possible.  Which so happens to be the AC.  They did this to sell islam as a legitimate religion.  It's the classic mix a little truth in with fiction and you can convince people it is true.

 

Islam came about over 400 years after Christ died.  So, people in that part of the world knew of Jesus, they were also mostly illiterate, but they had just enough knowledge of Christianity that they could be easily manipulated into believing a lie.  Muhammed came along, and for whatever reason, like many people and false prophets do still today, used religion to gain power and wealth.  Once he got enough followers they began being deifying him as the prophet of prophets. 

 

In my mind, he is no more a prophet than david koresh, or Joseph Smith, Jim Jones, etc. were.  He was just in a time where people were superstitious and ignorant enough to believe he was anything special.  Also, convert or die was a very convicing proposition for most people.

 

To see the koran as a prophetic book, means to make it equivalent to the bible and no Christian should ever make that mistake.  We can expect the world to be gullible enough to believe in the prophecies of the koran.  But Christians should know better.