firestormx Posted July 27, 2013 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,113 Content Per Day: 0.26 Reputation: 442 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/06/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/17/1975 Share Posted July 27, 2013 (edited) I need some help with this please. I only have a little understanding of the Greek and Hebrew. I've been studying the subject of Divorce and remarriage. I have always assumed that Divorce and Put away meant exactly the same thing. I have started to wonder because of the usage of the term put away , if separation or to separate would be a better understanding of what is being said. Separating is a part of the divorce process, but not the same thing as divorce. To give an example, When I was a kid my Dad sent my mom and us kids to another state to live for awhile. When we come back 6 months later he had moved out to be with another woman. ( My mom knew the reason he was sending us away). 10 years later he divorced my mom. When they separated ( he sent us to live out of state with family ) , my dad put her away, when he divorced her ( 10 years later ) then biblically he gave her a writing of divorcement. Do I understand this correct. If I understand this right then this really changes some of what I thought Jesus taught on this subject. Please use scripture and Greek/Hebrew so I can do more research and study this out more. In advance I want to thank everyone for there help with this. God Bless Firestormx Joseph Edited July 27, 2013 by firestormx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdemoss Posted July 27, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 59 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,402 Content Per Day: 0.99 Reputation: 2,154 Days Won: 28 Joined: 02/10/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/26/1971 Share Posted July 27, 2013 Hi Joseph, I took some time to look over word usage in the OT and NT concerning that which you have inquired about. In the NT in Matthew I found that the same word was translated both put away and divorcement in a single verse. As I read through the various uses of terms that cover the idea of the two words I came to the conclusion that the putting away or sending away of the wife is the same as divorcing her but the term divorce pertained more to the written record of the loosing/releasing/sending/putting action preformed. I find it to have a lot to due with how languages have an array of words used to be able to describe various aspects of the same basic thing. I decided not to include a diatribe of Hebrew and Greek words or scripture references as I do not believe they would actually be very helpful at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firestormx Posted July 27, 2013 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,113 Content Per Day: 0.26 Reputation: 442 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/06/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/17/1975 Author Share Posted July 27, 2013 (edited) Hi Joseph, I took some time to look over word usage in the OT and NT concerning that which you have inquired about. In the NT in Matthew I found that the same word was translated both put away and divorcement in a single verse. As I read through the various uses of terms that cover the idea of the two words I came to the conclusion that the putting away or sending away of the wife is the same as divorcing her but the term divorce pertained more to the written record of the loosing/releasing/sending/putting action preformed. I find it to have a lot to due with how languages have an array of words used to be able to describe various aspects of the same basic thing. I decided not to include a diatribe of Hebrew and Greek words or scripture references as I do not believe they would actually be very helpful at this point. Thanks for the response. I know the verse you speak of. It's one of the verses in Matt. My problem with that one verse is that is the only time in all of scripture, that Greek word is translated as divorce. It's translated a lot of other things but divorce just once. I know better than to think the KJV is perfect. The word of God is perfect, but the KJV does have some translation problems at points. Maybe this will help..... The KJV New Testament Greek Lexicon Strong's Number: 630 Original Word Word Origin ajpoluvw from (575) and (3089) Transliterated Word TDNT Entry Apoluo None Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech ap-ol-oo'-o Verb Definition to set free to let go, dismiss, (to detain no longer) a petitioner to whom liberty to depart is given by a decisive answer to bid depart, send away to let go free, release a captive i.e. to loose his bonds and bid him depart, to give him liberty to depart to acquit one accused of a crime and set him at liberty indulgently to grant a prisoner leave to depart to release a debtor, i.e. not to press one's claim against him, to remit his debt used of divorce, to dismiss from the house, to repudiate. The wife of a Greek or Roman may divorce her husband. to send one's self away, to depart King James Word Usage - Total: 69 release 17, put away 14, send away 13, let go 13, set at liberty 2, let depart 2, dismiss 2, miscellaneous 6 KJV Verse Count Matthew 18 Mark 12 Luke 14 John 3 Acts 15 Hebrews 1 Total 69 times this word is in the new testament and is translated divorce just 1 time. This is the Greek word for divorce. The KJV New Testament Greek Lexicon Strong's Number: 647 Original Word Word Origin ajpostavsion neuter of a (presumed) adj. from a derivative of (868) Transliterated Word TDNT Entry Apostasion None Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech ap-os-tas'-ee-on Noun Neuter Definition divorce, repudiation a bill of divorce King James Word Usage - Total: 3 divorcement 2, writing of divorcement 1 KJV Verse Count Matthew 2 Mark 1 Total Every time this word is used it is divorce. The difference between the 2 as it appears to me is you can put away your spouse and not divorce her, but you can't divorce a spouse without also putting them away. I am not sure I got this right, which is why I am asking for help. Edited July 27, 2013 by firestormx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdemoss Posted July 27, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 59 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,402 Content Per Day: 0.99 Reputation: 2,154 Days Won: 28 Joined: 02/10/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/26/1971 Share Posted July 27, 2013 Hi Joseph, I took some time to look over word usage in the OT and NT concerning that which you have inquired about. In the NT in Matthew I found that the same word was translated both put away and divorcement in a single verse. As I read through the various uses of terms that cover the idea of the two words I came to the conclusion that the putting away or sending away of the wife is the same as divorcing her but the term divorce pertained more to the written record of the loosing/releasing/sending/putting action preformed. I find it to have a lot to due with how languages have an array of words used to be able to describe various aspects of the same basic thing. I decided not to include a diatribe of Hebrew and Greek words or scripture references as I do not believe they would actually be very helpful at this point. Thanks for the response. I know the verse you speak of. It's one of the verses in Matt. My problem with that one verse is that is the only time in all of scripture, that Greek word is translated as divorce. It's translated a lot of other things but divorce just once. I know better than to think the KJV is perfect. The word of God is perfect, but the KJV does have some translation problems at points. Maybe this will help..... The KJV New Testament Greek Lexicon Strong's Number: 630 Original Word Word Origin ajpoluvw from (575) and (3089) Transliterated Word TDNT Entry Apoluo None Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech ap-ol-oo'-o Verb Definition to set free to let go, dismiss, (to detain no longer) a petitioner to whom liberty to depart is given by a decisive answer to bid depart, send away to let go free, release a captive i.e. to loose his bonds and bid him depart, to give him liberty to depart to acquit one accused of a crime and set him at liberty indulgently to grant a prisoner leave to depart to release a debtor, i.e. not to press one's claim against him, to remit his debt used of divorce, to dismiss from the house, to repudiate. The wife of a Greek or Roman may divorce her husband. to send one's self away, to depart King James Word Usage - Total: 69 release 17, put away 14, send away 13, let go 13, set at liberty 2, let depart 2, dismiss 2, miscellaneous 6 KJV Verse Count Matthew 18 Mark 12 Luke 14 John 3 Acts 15 Hebrews 1 Total 69 times this word is in the new testament and is translated divorce just 1 time. This is the Greek word for divorce. The KJV New Testament Greek Lexicon Strong's Number: 647 Original Word Word Origin ajpostavsion neuter of a (presumed) adj. from a derivative of (868) Transliterated Word TDNT Entry Apostasion None Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech ap-os-tas'-ee-on Noun Neuter Definition divorce, repudiation a bill of divorce King James Word Usage - Total: 3 divorcement 2, writing of divorcement 1 KJV Verse Count Matthew 2 Mark 1 Total Every time this word is used it is divorce. The difference between the 2 as it appears to me is you can put away your spouse and not divorce her, but you can't divorce a spouse without also putting them away. I am not sure I got this right, which is why I am asking for help. Joseph, there is a lot of technical word usage stuff in your post which gives absolutely no weight to the context of what is being said. Your rejection of the KJV aside, read the context to see if divorce is appropriate or not. In Matthew, Jesus is commenting on Deuteronomy 24 where the word divorce is also used in the Hebrew. In fact verse 31 uses a related word g647 which is only ever translated by a form of divorce. The Greek Septuagint uses the word translated only as divorce in Jer 2:9 for the word forsaken when saying the Israelites have forsaken their God. They had 'put away' their God when they should have 'put away' all other gods from them. This idea of putting away is all through out the scriptures as a permanent divide (divorce) between two things that are joined (married). If you seek to understand the basic words used and how they describe something and reject the hard line definitions placed upon the words within our minds due to the usage of the word we are used too, then you will be able to see a fuller picture of what a group of words used to describe something mean as per what they are describing. Have you ever heard of the usage of the term marry or married outside of two people who are joined together via becoming wed? Have you heard of marrying steel to concrete that speaks of the union of the two? What we are talking about with marriage and divorce are the bonds that tie two people, a husband and wife, together. The destruction of those bonds can be described in a variety of ways due to the nature of human language. I have mistakenly sought to base my own theology on these types of word battles before and have been led astray through the confusion of a matter based upon this type of division. We must understand these concepts as a whole regardless of the wording used. 1 Cor 7 uses the term unmarried rather than divorced though they both mean exactly the same thing. The chapter uses the term depart when speaking of how the former wife became unmarried. Unmarried. Divorced. Same thing. When speaking about the believers with unbelieving spouses the terms put away and leave are used. They are all words describing various aspects of the same thing which is the disunion or breaking up of that which is joined together. I can't afford to get hung up on words here. I need to understand whole concepts that are not divided up by various degrees as is what is happening in your mind as you are being led to splinter the concept into strange pieces based upon a certain perception of something that happened in your life. My wife divorced me a long time ago. She began to defraud me according to scripture in February of 2012. Ultimately her casting me out of her heart and breaking our union happened in October of the same year. She has further separated herself from me by not allowing me visitation with our children. But in all of this she never filed for a legal civil divorce. Why? The reason is most likely that she would have to give me access to our children in the event of a legal divorce in the eyes of the state. Jesus said that adulteries, fornication and things such as murder proceed out of the heart of a person and manifest in their physical forms. Divorce is no different. It is something that happens in the heart of the individual who is married that decides they want to be loosed, freed, removed, separated, unmarried, torn asunder, put away, sent away, divided, clean escaped or whatever word you want to use to describe the action of making one into two again. I don't know why this topic is of such great interest to you but I do hope that what I have shared here helps to take away some of the confusion. I know that as a recovering alcoholic part of my mindset has always been the need for black and white where no grey area can exist and I have to fight against this tendency and work toward acceptance that all things are not simply black and white. Peace, my brother! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firestormx Posted July 27, 2013 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,113 Content Per Day: 0.26 Reputation: 442 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/06/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/17/1975 Author Share Posted July 27, 2013 My wife divorced me a long time ago. She began to defraud me according to scripture in February of 2012. Ultimately her casting me out of her heart and breaking our union happened in October of the same year. She has further separated herself from me by not allowing me visitation with our children. But in all of this she never filed for a legal civil divorce. Why? The reason is most likely that she would have to give me access to our children in the event of a legal divorce in the eyes of the state. Peace, my brother!I'm sorry to hear about your marriage. This is just something I'm studying. I have peace on this issue. However, I think making sure you understand the word in context is important. You can separate from somebody without divorcing them and be with another ( although it would be sin). In this situation you put away/ put aside your spouse but no divorce. To me it is no different than the people that I went to church with as a kid. They taught that fornication, as used in Matthew 5:32 means only pre-martial sex. But 1 Corinthians 5:1 makes clear that the biblical use of the word fornication means more than just pre-marital sex. The tradition says one thing, but the Word of God says another. I am just investigating whether this is a case where tradition has changed what the word is saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdemoss Posted July 27, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 59 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,402 Content Per Day: 0.99 Reputation: 2,154 Days Won: 28 Joined: 02/10/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/26/1971 Share Posted July 27, 2013 My wife divorced me a long time ago. She began to defraud me according to scripture in February of 2012. Ultimately her casting me out of her heart and breaking our union happened in October of the same year. She has further separated herself from me by not allowing me visitation with our children. But in all of this she never filed for a legal civil divorce. Why? The reason is most likely that she would have to give me access to our children in the event of a legal divorce in the eyes of the state. Peace, my brother! I'm sorry to hear about your marriage. This is just something I'm studying. I have peace on this issue. However, I think making sure you understand the word in context is important. You can separate from somebody without divorcing them and be with another ( although it would be sin). In this situation you put away/ put aside your spouse but no divorce. To me it is no different than the people that I went to church with as a kid. They taught that fornication, as used in Matthew 5:32 means only pre-martial sex. But 1 Corinthians 5:1 makes clear that the biblical use of the word fornication means more than just pre-marital sex. The tradition says one thing, but the Word of God says another. I am just investigating whether this is a case where tradition has changed what the word is saying. Good to hear Joseph. I can understand by what you have shared here that you were already settled on the issue and not seeking help in understanding though it is what you seemed to be saying that you needed. You seem to have been seeking confirmation for that which you already believed to be true. That is OK. I believe as you do that separation without divorce can and does happen. The purpose of the separation in that case must always be an attempt to salvage the marriage or the person choosing to separate is being dishonest and is simply choosing to divorce in their heart yet call it separation. Anyway have fun studying out the various facets of our faith as you are led by Christ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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