Speaking in tongues 2

[Knowingtruth]

 

Show me where I made such a statement for you to even ask such a question. Please, do not try and add to or twist my words.

 

 

 

I hope you have heard of 'insight' into the Scripure. A single verse may give you a limited hindsight, not foresight! Prophecy deals with the latter. That is more important. That is what Paul advocates. I cannot share my insight with people who look back all the time. Unknown tongue neither helps in hindsight nor in foresight. Paul says when he prays with his spirit, his mind is fruitless. You want me to quote this verse no.  again? You see, known devil is better tackled than an unknown devil. If someone is accursing Jesus with a known language we know what to do with that person. What if a person accursed in an unknown language. himself not being aware of that but prompted by Satan who employs sneaky tactics, are you going to say amen to that? Such incidents have been reported in the Forums!

Please explain what you mean by "double step procedure". Also, please provide scripture to show me where the Holy Spirit is not involved in any of the gifts He gives?

 

The Holy Spirit never uses agent's agent to utter for Him! Spiritual gifts are from the Holy Spirit. No more involvement afterwards. It is for the person to use them for common good freely. It is like a gift of a knife. It can used to cut vegetables or kill somebody. That culprit cannot say that I should be held responsible for giving the knife as a gift! Remember Satan will be waiting for opportunity to sneak in to influence people who do not know what they are saying! Lots of money are being gathered with demonstration of circus shows! Sorry, I cannot quote a verse for this because this is the development post-Bible scenario with people who are tend to be emotional and want a place once in a week to let off, so to say, steam and branded spiritual! I will not surprised drug addicts getting relief from this since they will have found substitution for their abnormal behavior from drugs.

 

 In that case, quote a verse that says 'tongue is not wrong'.

 

 

Paul is describing why prophesy is better than tongues due to not having an interpretation, not that tongues is wrong.

 

Where does he say that tongue is right?

 

Absolutely Not! Cherry picking scripture is where false teaching derives from

 

 

Don't you think that cherry picking is a required art to identify a good fruit from the a bad fruit? Do you want to identify yourself with chaff instead of wheat? Going by your logic, one can say that quotes from the OT by Jesus and His disciples were 'cherry picking'.

 

 

 

The reason is for understanding what the message was, and the truth at that. If there is no interpretation, those who have a message in tongues should cease after 2 or 3 messages

 

So according to you the Holy Spirit takes a chance to give out a message? If not interpreted, it goes as a waste, right? What kind of insight is this? The spoken word of God will not go as a waste. It will accomplish what was spoken. So you are limiting chances to the Holy Spirit also to speak! All this connection to the Holy Spirit after having received them are baseless.

Paul instructs further down in verses 27 and 28 how tongues should be done in church, which does not say they should not exist.

The letter is addressed to immature, spiritually shallow Corinthians. Show me the Scripture where Paul says it should exist in all churches? 
 

 

I believe false teaching comes from 'pecking worms in isolation'!

 

 

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The whole of scripture needs to agree, not just one or two verses that favor a theory.

 

That is exactly  my stand too!

 

 

What proof does one have when prophesy is spoken, or a word of knowledge given, that they are of God? There is the inner Spirit of God that communicates with our spirit when the truth or a lie is spoken.

 

Are you sure of the integrity of the interpretaion? What proof you have for that since we are expected to verify when in doubt?
 

 

Then why did God say the prophecies should be verified? False prophets have existed and continue to exist even now! People verifed the preaching of Paul with Scripture to get convinced. Unfortunately, people accept convenient concepts that tickle their ears as truth.
 
 
 

I removed what was an attack and will not mention it again. You know what you wrote.

I agree we need the truth and not run from it. Many have tried to show you the error of your theory with truth from scripture. Noe you have to decide if you will accept this truth or run from it.

 
I have just made a beginning. Please have patience. I am not condemning, but questioning their belief which is not based on Scripture, that is, 1 Corinthians 12:3. We need to face the truth, not run away from it!

 

 

I am contending what they claim to be truth. I am standing on the rock of Peter. I am not trying to delete anything I say, but willing to change my opinion if Scriptural. Did Paul and his associates run away when they were attacked all the time? I am learning and it continues all the time. 

 

 

[Faithful]

I am new and saw this topic.....I haven't the time right this minute to read all of the entries as it is past my bedtime tonight....but speaking personally, my life changed dramatically when I was baptized into the Holy Spirit....It took me many years to receive though....

[Montana Marv]

KT

 

You are dead wrong in what you have as opinion.

 

1 Cor 12:4-11 -  The same Spirit gives the following;  wisdom, knowledge, faith, healing, miraculous powers, prophecy, distinguishing between spirits, speaking in different tongues, interpreting those tongues.

 

Why are you not fighting those with miraculous powers, those who heal, those with great faith.  Why picking on those with tongues.  You attack them, you are attacking the same Spirit who gave them this power.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

[OneLight]

[Knowingtruth]

 

 

 

Of course, one cannot deny that there was lot of confusion and disorderly conduct in Corinth befoe Paul came up with this solution of interpretation. You think if everything is done in order, it  is due to the motivation of the Holy Spirit. Gambling in casinos are very well done in order! Right here in this thread that there are admissions  that all interpretatios are not right! And there is no proof of the veracity of the interpretation. Sometimes more than one interpretation is available. All spoken words should be verified for conformity with what Jesus preached. Claim of Interpretation may be simply some ear tickling statements other than what was spoken!

 

 

 

I simply go by Paul's advice and do not prefer lower-end gifts. When God has given one of the greatest gifts of all in proper speech, why should I employ something that I do not know? However, I am interested in knowning how you have operated that in your life. You see, private prayer done in whatever language cannot be faked. It is the public display in words whether tongues or interpretation that is questioned. Again I am not saying all the gifts have ceased.

 

 

 

Revelation speaks of spiritual temple. That is your interpretation that I do not accept. Prophecies cannot be called facts. If fact, it cannot be a prophecy. The fact is that there is no temple now. The place was snatched away from stubborn and stiff-necked people and handed over to Muslims who recognize Jesus as an apostle of God whereas Jews totally reject Him!

 

 

 

Please spell out clearly in that case. How many twelve or more? Who are they? This is important.

 

 

 

You appear to forget the time frame here. When Paul wrote 1 Cornithians, I believe, all the Gospels in the form we have now were not available. John's epistles also came up later. The period of penning of John's Revelation is disputed.  Would you please list the 27 books that you appear to indicate that they were available to the first Jerusalem Church? It cannot be so!

 

You think  Martin Luther existed before Peter, Clement of Rome, et al before Scripture only concept came into being? Is not the Catholics headed by a Pope came into being first? What was Luther before his reformation steps?

 

Scriptural proof.  Show it to me.  You keep saying this and that.  Give me the proof.  Something that is beyond your own personal opinion.  Because you don't know the Bible, and you don't know Church History.

 

Let us go by what you say. Please give Scripture proof to disprove what I am saying.

 

There have been many people who have asked you to provide scripture for what you have said and you have refused for the vast majority of these requests.  You are the one who has come here to try to convince us that tongues are not for today, that they should be ignored and more, all without any scriptural backing.  You are once again avoiding a request to back your statements up with scripture, side stepping your responsibility.

 

Don't try to twist this around because people have been showing you through scripture that your theology is incorrect already. 

 

 

Okay, let us not lose reality and facts here. Please show me in the scripture where one can roll over the floor, make strange sounds, behave erratically, wait for the gifts with drum beatings, etc., by quoting Scripture. Let them show again by the Scripture that what was the advice for Corinthian people is applicable to mature believing Christians all over the world.

[Knowingtruth]

I am new and saw this topic.....I haven't the time right this minute to read all of the entries as it is past my bedtime tonight....but speaking personally, my life changed dramatically when I was baptized into the Holy Spirit....It took me many years to receive though....

It is not supported by the Scripture if someone claims that he is going to baptize you with the Holy Spirit. Only Jesus can baptize like that!(Matthew 3:11) It is your psychology that makes you feel better that is all!

[Knowingtruth]

KT

 

You are dead wrong in what you have as opinion.

 

1 Cor 12:4-11 -  The same Spirit gives the following;  wisdom, knowledge, faith, healing, miraculous powers, prophecy, distinguishing between spirits, speaking in different tongues, interpreting those tongues.

 

Why are you not fighting those with miraculous powers, those who heal, those with great faith.  Why picking on those with tongues.  You attack them, you are attacking the same Spirit who gave them this power.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

I am alive in the living word! I am tired of repeating the same answers over and over again! Please go through my replies to others wherein I have noted that the speaking and interpretation combination that was suggested by Paul to bring order in Corinth ceased in a course of time. I am not denying other spiritual gifts.

[Knowingtruth]

But what about when you said people who believe in tongues do not have the Spirit and cannot say "Jesus is Lord", don't you see how that is absurd? It was clearly emotional and blurted out. Their belief is certainly also based on scripture and most certainly can say Jesus is Lord and they really mean it and live it...

 

How can you say a person speaking an unknown tongue that is both unknown to him and to others can claim to have said Jesus is Lord? Satan may be prompting him to curse Jesus! Can we determine on spiritual position of this person through an unreliable interpreter? This is a question of personal salvation, no interpreter has anything to say on this! It appears people in Corinth were doing that with known language, and Paul had to warn their sayings by this clarifying verse.

 

Nowhere does it say tongues or interpretation of tongues has ceased, so do not pin this on the Holy words of God...it is an historical opinion and you are entitled to hold it, but I see nowhere in history either where the Lord says these have ceased...

 

No where in the Bible it is said that combination of unknown tongue and interpretation will continue in all churches in future.

 

the only denominations I know of that hold this opinion (very emotionally) are the Brethren and some of the Reformed...are you a member of the Brethren church or perhaps Reformed?

 

Baptists hold that as demoniac. But I say it is personal spirit that is active in unknown tongue, not the Holy Spirit, nor demon. I have had fellowship with Brethren, Baptists, Jehovah's witnesses, Christadelphians, Non-denominational, Church of Christ etc. I have attended four Pentecostal churches. It is horrible to see their misbehavior in the guise of spiritual activity!

 

All others I know of accept the perpetuity of spiritual gifts (as rarely as they are manifest) until He returns (and this is indeed scriptural).  Even if I had never experienced one of them I would still believe it because it is the word of God. Otherwise, when did they cease? And on what unscriptural criteria did they cease (for 1 Corinthians 13 is quite clear...unless Paul was wrong!)?

 

I have clarified this. Paul was speaking of known tongue and others that would cease after Lord's return naturally. Why do we require these gifts when Jesus is with us? I have found only those who have studied in depth understand the difference between known and unknown tongues of the NT. I  continue to discuss this in Forums exclusively meant for Pentecostal people. They are aware of that.

 

So either you are correct or Paul's writings are correct? Let's see??? The opinion of a person (albeit a brother in the Lord) or the very Theopneustos graphae (God breathed writings)...Which one should I accept and trust? Hmmm? Let me think on that a while...

 

Peter was right in warning about Paul's writings. It is easy to distort his letters.

 

 

 

 

 

[OneLight]

Of course, one cannot deny that there was lot of confusion and disorderly conduct in Corinth befoe Paul came up with this solution of interpretation. You think if everything is done in order, it  is due to the motivation of the Holy Spirit. Gambling in casinos are very well done in order! Right here in this thread that there are admissions  that all interpretatios are not right! And there is no proof of the veracity of the interpretation. Sometimes more than one interpretation is available. All spoken words should be verified for conformity with what Jesus preached. Claim of Interpretation may be simply some ear tickling statements other than what was spoken!

 

 

 

I simply go by Paul's advice and do not prefer lower-end gifts. When God has given one of the greatest gifts of all in proper speech, why should I employ something that I do not know? However, I am interested in knowning how you have operated that in your life. You see, private prayer done in whatever language cannot be faked. It is the public display in words whether tongues or interpretation that is questioned. Again I am not saying all the gifts have ceased.

 

 

 

Revelation speaks of spiritual temple. That is your interpretation that I do not accept. Prophecies cannot be called facts. If fact, it cannot be a prophecy. The fact is that there is no temple now. The place was snatched away from stubborn and stiff-necked people and handed over to Muslims who recognize Jesus as an apostle of God whereas Jews totally reject Him!

 

 

 

Please spell out clearly in that case. How many twelve or more? Who are they? This is important.

 

 

 

You appear to forget the time frame here. When Paul wrote 1 Cornithians, I believe, all the Gospels in the form we have now were not available. John's epistles also came up later. The period of penning of John's Revelation is disputed.  Would you please list the 27 books that you appear to indicate that they were available to the first Jerusalem Church? It cannot be so!

 

You think  Martin Luther existed before Peter, Clement of Rome, et al before Scripture only concept came into being? Is not the Catholics headed by a Pope came into being first? What was Luther before his reformation steps?

 

Scriptural proof.  Show it to me.  You keep saying this and that.  Give me the proof.  Something that is beyond your own personal opinion.  Because you don't know the Bible, and you don't know Church History.

Let us go by what you say. Please give Scripture proof to disprove what I am saying.

There have been many people who have asked you to provide scripture for what you have said and you have refused for the vast majority of these requests.  You are the one who has come here to try to convince us that tongues are not for today, that they should be ignored and more, all without any scriptural backing.  You are once again avoiding a request to back your statements up with scripture, side stepping your responsibility.

 

Don't try to twist this around because people have been showing you through scripture that your theology is incorrect already. 

Okay, let us not lose reality and facts here. Please show me in the scripture where one can roll over the floor, make strange sounds, behave erratically, wait for the gifts with drum beatings, etc., by quoting Scripture. Let them show again by the Scripture that what was the advice for Corinthian people is applicable to mature believing Christians all over the world.

Wow ... where did this come from??? I agree, let's not loose reality. The reality of this conversation is that you don't supply scripture when asked. The proof is your reply.

[OneLight]

I am new and saw this topic.....I haven't the time right this minute to read all of the entries as it is past my bedtime tonight....but speaking personally, my life changed dramatically when I was baptized into the Holy Spirit....It took me many years to receive though....

It is not supported by the Scripture if someone claims that he is going to baptize you with the Holy Spirit. Only Jesus can baptize like that!(Matthew 3:11) It is your psychology that makes you feel better that is all!

Acts 8:18-19

And when Simon saw that through the laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Spirit was given, he offered them money, saying, “Give me this power also, that anyone on whom I lay hands may receive the Holy Spirit.”

Once again, wrong. Everything comes from God, this I agree with. There are also places where the Holy Spirit just fell on them. It is not anyone's "psychology", but God.