Ninevite Posted August 21, 2013 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 127 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 14 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/14/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/02/1980 Share Posted August 21, 2013 I have seen this come up in a lot of other discussions, appearing usually a bit off topic so I will post this here in it's own thread. What is the geocentric model? How does it work? What evidence is there to support this model? What are the alternatives? I am genuinly curious, please feel free to share your thoughts on this topic. Thanks, Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninevite Posted August 22, 2013 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 127 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 14 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/14/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/02/1980 Author Share Posted August 22, 2013 (edited) Okay, So I went and studied this for myself...I googled it. At best, it can be worked out either way. The Bible really doesn't take a position on this topic as far as I can tell. Having said that, geocentrists seem to advocate questioning one's faith should they except any other alternative. They make the claim that the heliocentrist is accussing God of being a poor communicator, though the passages they quote tend to be "open to interpretation" given that many of them are found in the poetic books. Though I think the same arguement can be made, and reasonably so, that this is the case for passages quoted from outside the poetic books. Even more, they blame Godlessness for one's exceptance of heliocentricty and blame the dark art for all kinds of degeneration, including, but not limited to, astrology. In short, they tend to work themselves up over nothing and much ado about Bible passages that aren't even talking about cosmology. The Bible seems to plead the fifth on this one, so have it your way...it makes little difference in the grand scheme of things. This is clearly not a salvation issue as God seems to have not touched on the subject at all, though the geo seems convinced that it is the Bible vs. Science. It is clearly science vs. science and heliocentricty wins. Keep in mind, Galileo himself thought it made no difference...I guess he figured, God can do things however he chooses. Edited August 22, 2013 by Ninevite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sculelos Posted August 23, 2013 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 49 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/13/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted August 23, 2013 Geocentric can mean either Geostatic or Geocentric. Geostatic means the Earth is not moving nor rotating. Geocentric means the Earth is not moving but is rotating. I honestly don't believe that the Earth could not be moving and be both rotating at the same time as that would violate normal physics laws so that could be ruled out so we only have geostatic model left. In short this is what the Geostatic model is. 1. Stationary Earth not moving nor rotating. 2. 1274 Million Mile Universe Width with a Star Dome Rotating around the Earth Daily. 3. 7 Layers of Heaven, Each layer has 1 or more planets present. Earth is a combination of all the layers together. Down is Down and Up is Down but less down then down. Each Point represents the Charge Strength 0-4 is Electrodes while 5-9 is Conductors. 1. Moon: 0 points 2. Neptune: 1 Point 3. Earth: 3 points 4.Jupiter: 3 points 5.Mercury: 4 points 6.Sun: 6 points 5.Venus: 7 points 3.Mars: 8 points 2.Uranus: 8 points 4.Saturn: 9 points Each Planet is repeated several times as follows as is the layering of the Earth. Sun + Earth + Moon - Mercury + Venus - Sun + Mars - Jupiter + Saturn - Uranus + Neptune - Earth + Moon - Sun + Mars - Jupiter + Saturn - Uranus + Neptune - Sun + The Star Dome is where light from the planets is captured are reflects back to the Earth each star is a transformer. Light Is Ions with a Charge of 256 (Very Strong) Well to convert Ion's to distance and the maximum Ion potential you first have to multiply the base distance of the ions which 1,000 ions x 1,000 ions equal one second. Ions are electricity flow within the Worlds (Universe) Magnetic field. 1,000 Ions x 1,000 ions = 1 Million Ions to covert to inches 1 Million x .8 = 800 Thousand Inches, That equals 66,666.6666 feet in total. That equals 12.6262 Miles Per second. It can travel 2 directions at the same time plus it can expand 25% North and South each per second. So 2.5 is the total multiplier of the complete area effected. That equals 31.565656 Miles per second total area covered. For one minute that is 31.5656 x 2 Per extra second. For the way Ions work they will increase at a multiplication rate of 1.25% per second or 15 times per minute. 31.565656 Miles per minute x 15 = 473.4848 Miles Per minute covered. X15 Again and you get 7,102 Miles per hour It multiplies again by 6 in one day = 42,613 Miles covered. This all equals a multiplication of the Ion by 1,350 per day. Day 2 through day 6 would all multiply by 1,350 each Day 1 = 42,613 Miles Day 2 = 57,527,550 Miles Day 3 = 77,662,192,500 Miles Day 4 = 104,843,959,875,000 Miles Day 5 = 1,415,39,345,831,250,000 Miles Day 6 = 191,078,116,872,187,500,000 Miles Day 7 the speed of the Ion loops back to the center of the universe and repeats itself once again. For real universe speeds we must account for compression ratios from electrical matter moving in neutral matter, the less the neutral matter is compressed the longer it will take the electrical matter to travel through it. Format: Layer Number = Compression ratio number = Ions total mileage crossed in miles. Layer 1 = 1 = 10,861,533 Layer 2 = 4 = 43,446,133 Layer 3 = 16 = 173,784,534 Layer 4 = 64 = 2,780,552,558 Layer 5 = 256 = 177,955,363,758 Layer 6 = 1024 = 45,556,573,122,069 Layer 7 = 4096 = 46,649,930,876,998,901 = 7,542 Miles per minute = 125 Miles per second. Taking the total compression of all numbers and it is 5,461 = 41,186,862 Miles per minute at the top end. = 660,000 Miles per second at the top end. To round this to linear measurements we take it divide by 4 then multiply by 1.1237375 to account for the difference of square geometry to circular geometry. = 11,570,805 Miles per minute = 185,416 Miles per second Planet Worksheet for the Dwarf Planets is how we figure out the Age of the Universe at 5801 Years. Day = Light Day which = 1 Minute Realtime Ceres 1 Day Makemake 7 Days Haumea 7 Days Pluto 7 days Charon 7 days Eris 14 days Styx 21 Days Nix 28 Day's Kerberos 35 Day's Hydra 42 Day's Sedna 5916 Day's. Combined Radius 14,527,298,520 Minutes. Adjusted for Errors in Euclidean Geometry. 15,213,450,067 Divided by the Time Divide 3,042,690,013 Divided into realtime 2112979 Day's. 5785 Years. Corrected for lost calander time 5801 Years A test of square geometry as true. Moons of Saturn Orbital Radius Thousand KM Mimas 186 Enceladus 238 Tethys 295 Dione 377 Rhea 527 Titan 1222 Hyperion 1481 Iapetus 3561 Phoebe 12952 Orbit Mimas-----= 93% Enceladus-= 119% Tethys----= 147.5% Dione-----= 188.5% Rhea------= 263.5% Titan-----= 611% Hyperion--= 740.5% Iapetus---= 1780.5% Phoebe----= 6476% Total-----= 10419% Average---= 1157% Average Rounded = 320% Average Squared = 360% Average Cubed = 100% Planet Sized and Corrected for Compression Mercury size-264 (44%) Venus size---299 (50%) Earth size---598 (100%) Sun size-----598 (100%) Mars size----480 (80%) Jupiter size-1001(167%) Saturn size--482 (80%) Uranus size--827 (138%) Neptune size-499 (83%) Pluto size---370 (62%) Total Size---5418 (906%) Round Size---3960 (662%) Avg Size------541 (90%) Avg Size Cir--396 (66%) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sculelos Posted August 23, 2013 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 49 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/13/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted August 23, 2013 If you could not understand my post try reading some of this. http://fixedearth.com/subject_areas/subject_area_1.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobbyPants Posted August 27, 2013 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 1 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 166 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 15 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/27/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted August 27, 2013 I thought Copernicus started the proof that the earth is moving simply by looking at the orbits of other moon. It did not move in a smooth ellipse, but rather had other ellipses in the movement, showing that they were not rotating around the Earth, but something else. The odd orbit was the view he got from his position on earth: After this, Galileo built on this and studied the shadows on Venus and saw that they behaved oddly that wouldn't explain rotating around the earth: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil_ Posted August 31, 2013 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 87 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 7 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/17/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted August 31, 2013 What is the geocentric model? There are quite a few geocentric models. Some sticking to the older view (planets orbit Earth), some newer, like the tychonic models (planets orbit Sun, Sun orbits Earth). In the former the universe rotates directly around the Earth, in the second the Universe’s axis of rotation is actually aligned on the Sun, thus explaining the stellar parallaxes. In the former, stellar parallaxes are explained by complicated ether calculus. I am personally a supporter of the second: it explains things more easily and elegant. How does it work? If you meant for example what keep planets in orbit: ether (or aether). The very same thing that explains the GPS operation. What evidence is there to support this model? All the astronomic observations. What are the alternatives? The big bang universe, the steady state universe, and really many other cosmologies (for example Arp’s electric universe). The Bible really doesn't take a position on this topic as far as I can tell. I’m not sure what Bible are you reading exactly, but my Bible says this, for example: “And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: and let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, and to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.” So, the only reason for the stars is “to give light upon the earth” and to be “for signs, and for seasons”. If that’s not a geocentric universe I don’t know what is. See also Joshua’s day, when the Sun (not the Earth) stopped. There are also many other indications in the Bible, but they don’t come to me right now. Surely you’d find them all if you visit geocentric sites. They make the claim that the heliocentrist is accussing God of being a poor communicator No. Heliocentrist Christians must accuse God of being a liar - there’s no other way. though the passages they quote tend to be "open to interpretation" given that many of them are found in the poetic books. Are you saying that Psalms, for example, are telling lies instead of truth? And what other parts in the Bible do you think are telling lies? Let me guess: Genesis… Even more, they blame Godlessness for one's exceptance of heliocentricty Who’s “they”? And you probably meant “acceptance”. In short, they tend to work themselves up over nothing and much ado about Bible passages that aren't even talking about cosmology. Of course they talk about cosmology. Already given a few examples. Why don’t you google for many more. This is clearly not a salvation issue as God seems to have not touched on the subject at all, Not touched the subject at all? Really? So when the Bible says the Sun stopped that has nothing to do with the subject? Really? Yet again: REALLY? though the geo seems convinced that it is the Bible vs. Science No. It is the PSEUDOscience against the Bible. It is clearly science vs. science and heliocentricty wins. No to both accounts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil_ Posted August 31, 2013 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 87 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 7 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/17/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted August 31, 2013 Sculelos, I find your geocentric universe very strange. Never heard of it before. RobbyPants, you should really look into Tycho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Posted August 31, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 115 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 8,281 Content Per Day: 1.13 Reputation: 249 Days Won: 3 Joined: 03/03/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/30/1955 Share Posted August 31, 2013 While it is fascinating to study and work the math of the Ptolemian model, the cycles and epicycles become so convoluted and complex that on the Occam's Razor principle, heliocentric wins out. I do LOVE this kind of stuff however, just for the mental exercise, same as I love noneuclidean geometry, and the totally bogus study of macro evolution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobbyPants Posted September 1, 2013 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 1 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 166 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 15 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/27/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted September 1, 2013 RobbyPants, you should really look into Tycho. Galileo's studies on the phases of Venus (which I posted a pretty picture of earlier in this very thread!) refuted his work on geocentrism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil_ Posted September 1, 2013 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 87 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 7 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/17/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted September 1, 2013 While it is fascinating to study and work the math of the Ptolemian model, the cycles and epicycles become so convoluted and complex that on the Occam's Razor principle, heliocentric wins out. That’s the whole point: we’re NOT talking about “the Ptolemian model”… And speaking of Occam's Razor, would you dare to apply it to the big bang universe? Because there’ll be almost nothing left standing… I do LOVE this kind of stuff however, just for the mental exercise, same as I love noneuclidean geometry You LOVE that? Really? Well, how do you feel in the balloon? Comfy? When you want to wake up to the real world just tell me. It will be my pleasure to deflate it… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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