serotta Posted December 2, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 496 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 7 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/18/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/20/1959 Share Posted December 2, 2004 SS, homosexuals do have the same civil rights as heterosexuals. They are free to enter into a true marriage any time they want. What you ask are special, new rights for a very small minority. Should pedophiles be allowed to marry their 10 year old "lover"? Should I be allowed to marry my sister? Should I be allowed to "marry" three men, two women nd a goat? Where is the place to draw the line? I think it is where the line has always been; marriage is between one man and one woman. You mention a homosexual being "pummelled" by a homophobe. Is that any worse than any other person being pummelled to the point of hospitaliztion by any other person? Why is that a special situation? There is a law that says you commit assault and/or battery you are subject to arrest and prosecution. What is different just because the victim is a practicing homosexual? If one homosexual beats up another is it still a hate crime? If a black woman and a homosexual man get in a fight and beat each other up, are they both guilty of hate crimes? If someone beats up someone that used to be a practicing homosexual but is now in a heterosexual relationship does the victim forfeit the extra protection that "hate crime" legislation affords them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apothanein kerdos Posted December 2, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 331 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 8,713 Content Per Day: 1.21 Reputation: 21 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted December 2, 2004 I must say SS, I am somewhat disappointed in your second reply. It was much more crass and sarcastic than your first. I was hoping for an intelligent converstation on this topic. OK, all you people with more than 1 child (3 people in the household) are ruining this country because you're probably on your way to poverty. STOP HAVING CHILDREN!!! Tell all the people building big beautiful churches and driving up in expensive cars and nice jewelry for their sermons to give that excess to the poor... like Jesus teaches. You are ignoring the premise of my arguement. There is nothing wrong with having big families. However, if I remember right the national average for children per family is about three. So imagine that a man marries three women. All three women have the average of three kids, all by the same man. That produces a family that almost no one person can support. Now imagine if just 10% of the population did that...povery levels would shoot up. So please, before being sarcastic, why not put some effort and thought into your next reply? That's quite some opinion you have there. Noticeably lacking in anything other than opinion. I especially liked that last part about insurance, do you know people who believe it when you tell them this stuff? *sigh* I told you I had facts to back it up. Studies indicate that the average male homosexual has hundreds of sex partners in his lifetime. The median number of partners for homosexuals is four times higher than for heterosexuals. (Whitehead, N.E.; Whitehead, B.K. (1999): My Genes Made Me Do It! Huntington House, Lafayette, Louisiana, calculated from Laumann et al., 1994.) A study on the sexual profiles of 2,583 older homosexuals, published in the Journal of Sex Research, found that only 2.7 percent claimed to have had sex with one partner only. (16Paul Van de Ven et al., Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slippery Slope Posted December 2, 2004 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 105 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/19/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/24/1965 Share Posted December 2, 2004 sounds like Dr. Luke has designs on closing this thread. He opens the bible, points to scripture and basically says 'here is the answer and if you don't agree I will stop the discussion'... It's unfortunate because some of you actually have intelligent and thought provoking things to say. I am not allowed to have a meaningfiul or robust debate because I am not "lifting up the lord". In my short time of discovery here I am reminded, by fundamentalist attitudes, why I am unable to believe in the Christian faith. -SS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apothanein kerdos Posted December 2, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 331 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 8,713 Content Per Day: 1.21 Reputation: 21 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted December 2, 2004 Is that an honest answer or a way to slip out of the responces I gave? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthitjah Posted December 3, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 1,285 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 17,917 Content Per Day: 2.28 Reputation: 355 Days Won: 19 Joined: 10/01/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted December 3, 2004 Slope, I just believe that your argument has run the gamut and now you desire to debate with yourself. Pointing fingers at God's Children never absolves sin. It just redirects the argument away from you. Now as for pointing to the Bible. I told you I'm pretty dumb. I defer to the Word of God. God is never wrong. I mentioned closing this thread because your exasperration was showing. You told a woman who sincerely answered you, "To lay off the meds." Your pat answer when you cannot come to terms with someone's opinion is to say," Still waiting!" I tell you the Truth, Pride was the first and greatest fall. Now your answers to Brother Joel are laced with sarcasm. So what are you really looking for? What answer will satisfy you my friend? I can agree to disagree. Will you? How long shall we disagree? 20 pages? Am I a, Fundamentalist, going to change your opinion? Or will I continue to see your heart hardened? Sarcasm flying? Labeling me a Fundamentalist is just another diversion. Can you live with me being a Fundamentalist? Sincerely I believe every Word of God is True. If you can't live with me? Your gonna have a hard time with God. He is the ultimate Fundamentalist. Come on friend? Our difference of opinion is in that I believe God has spoken. There are consequences to sin. They are death and seperation from God eternally. Now I, a self described Fundamentalist/Zealot, have not once pointed to Scripture in this post. Believe me it has been hard. I think I've worn off a cap grinding down on my teeth in self restraint. So what will you point fingers at now? What are you looking for Slope? Peace, Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slippery Slope Posted December 3, 2004 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 105 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/19/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/24/1965 Share Posted December 3, 2004 Slope, I just believe that your argument has run the gamut and now you desire to debate with yourself. I believe you are incorrect and we were just starting to make some headway in the discussion. Pointing fingers at God's Children never absolves sin. It just redirects the argument away from you. I don't understand what you are talking about? Now as for pointing to the Bible. I told you I'm pretty dumb.  I defer to the Word of God. God is never wrong. That's fine and is expected on a Xian forum but does that mean that people can't have a meaningful discourse too without quoting scripture as well? I mentioned closing this thread because your exasperration was showing. You told a woman who sincerely answered you, "To lay off the meds." This is a complete distortion of that exchange. She was completely misreading the thread and in a near panic. My comment was light hearted. Go back and look again. Your pat answer when you cannot come to terms with someone's opinion is to say," Still waiting!" This is simply not true and at every turn you attempt to paint me in a light that is contrary to my intent. I tell you the Truth, Pride was the first and greatest fall. Now your answers to Brother Joel are laced with sarcasm. That's because I could not take that portion of his response seriously So what are you really looking for? Answers, insight, a sign... what are you looking for? What answer will satisfy you my friend? How about some truth. I can agree to disagree. Will you? How long shall we disagree? 20 pages? Am I a, Fundamentalist, going to change your opinion? Or will I continue to see your heart hardened? Sarcasm flying? That depends on if we can come to a point where we agree to disagree or find a truth we both agree on. Would you change your opinion if you heard the truth or will you attempt to hide what doesn't appeal to you? Labeling me a Fundamentalist is just another diversion. Can you live with me being a Fundamentalist? Sincerely I believe every Word of God is True. If you can't live with me? Your gonna have a hard time with God. He is the ultimate Fundamentalist. I didn't label you a fundamentalist, you did. Come on friend? Our difference of opinion is in that I believe God has spoken. There are consequences to sin. They are death and seperation from God eternally. Well that's great but there are other people besides you interested in the discussion. Now I, a self described Fundamentalist/Zealot, have not once pointed to Scripture in this post. Believe me it has been hard. I think I've worn off a cap grinding down on my teeth in self restraint.  So what will you point fingers at now? Well, really we are beyond the bible at this point. We have agreed that Xians believe homosexuality is a sin and I'm not disputing that belief. What are you looking for Slope? In this discussion I was looking for insight into the Xian position on the topic. In general... I'm not sure, maybe enough discussion on various topics will lead me to an epiphany or something but the more I'm censored, deleted. banned from Xian discussions the farther from Christianity I move. Peace, Dave <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I would like to continue on this topic but I will not waste my time by having you or some other moderator delete my thoughts. Still waiting -SS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apothanein kerdos Posted December 3, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 331 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 8,713 Content Per Day: 1.21 Reputation: 21 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted December 3, 2004 Oh slope...I'm waiting for a responce to my post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UndecidedFrog Posted December 3, 2004 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 2 Topic Count: 16 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,063 Content Per Day: 0.29 Reputation: 15 Days Won: 1 Joined: 08/02/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted December 3, 2004 Dear serotta, This is just my opinion. You do not have to accept it if you dislike it. DISCLAIMER: I am not a christian UF, are you suggesting that all homosexual behavior is caused by genetics? Are you sugeesting that humans never choose behavior that is self destructive? Homosexuality is a sin, just like adultery, just like drug addiction. Are there people born with a predisposition toward homosexual behavior? Certainly, just like there are people born with a predisposition for alcoholism. But the wonderful thing about Christ is that he offers us something much better. He loves us enough to show us our wrongs and offer a way out of them. There are now many more teenagers than ever before experimenting with homosexuality only because they are more aware of it and it is more socially acceptable. We need to stand up and show love for our teens and make it clear that this is not socially acceptable behavior. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Thank you for your response. Yes, there is evidence that suggest that homosexuality has a genetic cause. I am not and have never suggested that humans never choose behaviour that is self destructive. It is irrational for you to overextend the point I made unto the point of ridiculousness. You are free to consider whatever you wish as sin. Remember, that I am not a christian, and I do not believe in sin. Regards, UndecidedFrog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
followerofjesus Posted December 3, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 31 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,013 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/08/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted December 3, 2004 What would happen if the gay man marries a horse stud & gives the horse aids? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I give up, give me the punchline... Still Laughing -SS <{POST_SNAPBACK}> We might have a case of mad horse disease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UndecidedFrog Posted December 3, 2004 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 2 Topic Count: 16 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,063 Content Per Day: 0.29 Reputation: 15 Days Won: 1 Joined: 08/02/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted December 3, 2004 Dear SuperJew, This is just my opinion. You don't need to accept it if you dislike it. DISCLAIMER: I am not a christian. First, people do drugs, become alchoholics, become pedophiles, etc even though it is looked down upon in our society. So this isn't really a strong arguement. As for the articles...which ones? Can you put some forth? Of course not. The reason being is because most of it is hypothesis. There has been no absolute discovery that prove any of these theories...in fact, there's not enough evidence to consider it a theory. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Thanks for your response. Here is a link for the evidence in studies of monozygotic twins: http://www.worldpolicy.org/globalrights/sexorient/twins.html Granted, the studies do not show causality, only suggests it by correlation. But the data is there. Regards, UndecidedFrog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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