Are they all going to Hell?

[SandyU]

Jesus was harder on people who studied Gods word. The should have been the first to know who he was (the messiah). Jesus new the people who knew they were sinners loved and new him.

 

When Paul was in Athens he was dealing with people who were not raised on Gods word. He didn't tell them they were going to hell because they were not doing what Gods word said, Why would they? Instead he talked about creation (the unknown God) 

 

We live in a world were people do not know the Bible. We are unable to judge  who is going to hell, We need to give people a reason to read the Bible and know the  Creator so they will accept his son,

[AlanLamb0986]

We know that Jesus is the Way, and many of us know because of personal revelation from Him, or answer to prayer etc. But when you strip it all back to basics, everyone here gave themselves to Jesus because they believed He is who He claimed to be- God. We believed Him when He called Himself the Good Shepherd, the Light, the True Vine and so on. So why don't you take Him at His word when He said He was the only Way? It's like calling Jesus a bit of a liar- you believe all the good stuff about eternal life and so on, but when Jesus said that anybody that tries to get to the Father any other way is a thief, we conveniently forget that part. Is there anywhere in the Bible that suggests Universalism is any way theological? We may think's it's more loving for God to make a way for everyone, but is it? Imagine your Stephen, or one of the millions of Christians who have died, clinging to your faith. You've take God at His word, believing that only the faithful are saved. Then, when you get to Heaven, you find there's Buddhists, Muslims, Atheists etc. People who flat out denied Jesus. Why did Jesus say He was the only way? Why did He lie? What did you die for? Can you ssee how the idea of God sending the unsaved to Heaven is a lot less loving than sending the unbelievers to Hell?

Can we get to God by our own good deeds? No, because God finds our good deeds repulsive if done without His righteousness (Isa 64:6).

Does God love? Yes, but if He is a God that allows all men into Heaven without His righteousness, then He isn't Holy. When we say that God is love, I believe that is a verse that has been ripped apart. When I say God is love, I mean yes He does love man. But His foundation is righteousness. Some people think that God will make a way for non-believers. He made a way- the Cross. If we start saying there's another way, we're saying that there's a Holier way to overcome sin than by the blood of Jesus. Is there anything holier than God?

Man is sinful, and cannot enter Heaven without the righteousness of Christ.

God cannot abide sin. If God could look over sin, Jesus wouldn't have taken on flesh to suffer horrendously. I don't think Jesus suffered excruciating pain, just to take in the scenery. 

God doesn't like pride, so He asks us to rely only on Him. If we could get to God without Jesus, we could boast of our own righteousness, Now, the question is what about those who haven't heard the Gospel? I think that was your point gray wolf

 

From carm.org:

The Bible does not tell us specifically about what happens to those who have never heard. But it does say that Jesus is the only way to salvation (Acts 4:12). If it is possible that someone who has not heard the gospel can be saved, it must be through Jesus Christ and him alone (John 14:6). But, it could not be that a person who is not heard of Jesus can make it to heaven based upon being good since that would violate the scriptural teaching that no one is good (Rom. 3:10-12). If all people who have never heard of the gospel of Jesus Christ end up in hell, then that would be right because God would never do anything that is improper, so we trust His judgement. On the other hand, if any of them end up in heaven, then it would be the right thing to do for the same reason.

But, if righteousness before God can be achieved through being good, or sincere, or by following various laws, then Jesus died needlessly: "I do not nullify the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly," (Gal. 2:21).

Because the Scripture does not specifically address this issue, we cannot make an absolute statement concerning it. However, since the Bible does state that salvation is only through Jesus and that a person must receive Christ, then logically we conclude that those who have not heard the gospel are lost. This is all the more reason to preach the gospel to everyone.

[SandyU]

Jesus is the way the life and the truth. He is God with us. We are saved by accepting him. But there are people who have never grown up hearing Gods words, They may be protected in there ignorance for a time. As the people of Athens Paul visited in Acts.

 

It is important to bring Jesus to those who don't know him. But it is hard to understand why they should accept Gods word or Jesus if they don't understand God created everything. God through statues and poetry contacted the people of Athens long before Paul brought Gods word to them. He prepared them. Paul was respectful and explained the unknown God, the Father of everyone.

 

What I am saying is; it is not good to say to everyone you are going to hell if you don't believe this. A more loving, respectful, and intelligent response fits in a culture of people who have never heard Gods word.

[Hawkins]

I was watching a video of Sam Harris criticizing Christians for believing that all believers in other faiths wind up in Hell, since Christianity is the only Way.  I got to thinking about it and the verse John 14:6 "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth and the life:  no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."  I have long thought that this meant all (even decent) people of other faiths wind up in Hell for not believing on Him, even though they never heard the Gospel.  But this is one interpretation of the verse.  I have come around to considering what sends someone to Hell.  It is rejection of Christ.  These hundreds of millions of people did not have the chance, so why should we interpret the verse to mean that God will not provide a chance for them in a mysterious way?  This is known as Inclusivism; many Christians, including CS Lewis thought this way, as do I.  Exclusivism is the former idea.

I have taken much chastisement for holding this view, but I think it is the only rational way in accordance with the Love of God to answer this perplexing issue.   I am a very enthusiastic supporter of missionary efforts and this view does not diminish the urgency of the Gospel at all.   Let me know what you think.

 

People go to hell because they failed to abide by the Law 'bundled' with a covenant. The Jews may get rejected by God if they failed to abide by the Mosaic came with a covenant. The Gentile may get rejected by God when they failed to abide by the Law in Heart came with another covenant.

 

God gave people who failed the Law another option such that they don't need to face the judgment and punishment of the Law are are bound to. This option is to accept Christ as their savior. It replies on humans to spread the message (the Gospel). If people reject the gospel or before the gospel can reach them, they are subject to the law given to them by a previous covenant. Fairness is built upon law, while the option of saving through Christ is a Grace, a Grace that God made a sacrifice for humans to get for free.

 

To put it another, all humans are born to be bound by a covenant which contains the law they have to abide by. As history goes by, more and more people will fail the Law as more and more people are going away from God. For an example, those who failed to hear the gospel mainly because their ancestors after Noah decided to turn their back to God. When went out and their descendants formed other religions for them to believe to get their hearts more hardened. No mather how they change, they still need to abide by the Law God gave to them through an earlier covenant. The earliest covenant could be the one between God and Noah. They will be judged the Law if they failed to hear the gospel or decided not to accept it. It is humans' duty (God will help though) to spread the gospel to other fellows for them to make a choice (under the permission and guidance of God for one to become a believer though).

 

That's my 2 cents.

[SandyU]

Acts 17:16-34Where the gospel hasn't gone yet God the creator(24) has reached out to people. As with the people of Athens before Paul brought the gospel to them.  Not just any God (24-25)can save but the God of creation. Father of all. long before Paul brought Gods word they had the unknown God(23)&(28). Paul made it clear their idols couldn't save them. He also said they must accept Jesus now that they were no longer ignorent of him.(30-31)

[a-seeker]

I was watching a video of Sam Harris criticizing Christians for believing that all believers in other faiths wind up in Hell, since Christianity is the only Way.  I got to thinking about it and the verse John 14:6 "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth and the life:  no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."  I have long thought that this meant all (even decent) people of other faiths wind up in Hell for not believing on Him, even though they never heard the Gospel.  But this is one interpretation of the verse.  I have come around to considering what sends someone to Hell.  It is rejection of Christ.  These hundreds of millions of people did not have the chance, so why should we interpret the verse to mean that God will not provide a chance for them in a mysterious way?  This is known as Inclusivism; many Christians, including CS Lewis thought this way, as do I.  Exclusivism is the former idea.

I have taken much chastisement for holding this view, but I think it is the only rational way in accordance with the Love of God to answer this perplexing issue.   I am a very enthusiastic supporter of missionary efforts and this view does not diminish the urgency of the Gospel at all.   Let me know what you think.

A timeless question.

 

I only browsed some of the more conservative responses which seem to assign anyone (regardless of the absence of opportunities to convert to Christ due to geography or time) who dies an unbeliever to hell.

 

I have one correction, or rather clarification, to make, and then another thought that further complicates the issue.

 

The clarification pertains to the idea of inclusivism.  I find it impossible to conceive of heaven as populated by persons of various religions. Heaven is not a place, in the sense that it can be defined by its physicality (though it is physical).  It is communion with God that is heaven's sine qua non.  And that means communion with the one true God (God of ABraham, Jacob, Isaac; the God who raised Jesus Christ from the grave; and ultimately with the God who is triune).  Only by participation in Christ's death and Resurrection can we attain that perfect union intended at creation.  Thus it follows that, strictly speaking, no one but Christians will "make it to heaven"; but only because everyone in heaven will have accepted Christ as his or her Lord and participated in His death and resurrection.  This would require that persons who die unbelievers are granted an occasion to convert post mortem.

 

My second point complicates the issue for those who take the most conservative position: that everyone who died without confessing Christ as Lord perishes eternally.  It matters not that they lived so many years before Christ or so many miles from the only possible evangelists.

 

I would remind them that a good many men commended by the Bible died without knowing Christ.  Everyone in the Old Testament.  Moses did not preach a triune God (in fact, in the interest of monotheism, the doctrine would have done more harm than not); no king of Israel "who walked in the way of their father David" knew of Christ.  John the Baptist died while still confused about the purpose of Jesus (Jesus did not meet the common expectations held of the Messiah).

 

It follows that these men either perish in hell, or we will see them in the Resurrected life.  Even the most conservative Christian will probably reject the first alternative.  But if the second remains, then these men must undergo the same encounter, and therefore the same repentance, that every Christian in this life had to undergo.  They too must participate by belief (and therefore personal knowledge) in Christ's death and resurrection......

 

and surely this must occur this side of heaven, but the other side of death....

 

clb 

[AlanLamb0986]

 

 

 

I was watching a video of Sam Harris criticizing Christians for believing that all believers in other faiths wind up in Hell, since Christianity is the only Way.  I got to thinking about it and the verse John 14:6 "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth and the life:  no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."  I have long thought that this meant all (even decent) people of other faiths wind up in Hell for not believing on Him, even though they never heard the Gospel.  But this is one interpretation of the verse.  I have come around to considering what sends someone to Hell.  It is rejection of Christ.  These hundreds of millions of people did not have the chance, so why should we interpret the verse to mean that God will not provide a chance for them in a mysterious way?  This is known as Inclusivism; many Christians, including CS Lewis thought this way, as do I.  Exclusivism is the former idea.

I have taken much chastisement for holding this view, but I think it is the only rational way in accordance with the Love of God to answer this perplexing issue.   I am a very enthusiastic supporter of missionary efforts and this view does not diminish the urgency of the Gospel at all.   Let me know what you think.

 

People go to hell because they failed to abide by the Law 'bundled' with a covenant. The Jews may get rejected by God if they failed to abide by the Mosaic came with a covenant. The Gentile may get rejected by God when they failed to abide by the Law in Heart came with another covenant.

 

God gave people who failed the Law another option such that they don't need to face the judgment and punishment of the Law are are bound to. This option is to accept Christ as their savior. It replies on humans to spread the message (the Gospel). If people reject the gospel or before the gospel can reach them, they are subject to the law given to them by a previous covenant. Fairness is built upon law, while the option of saving through Christ is a Grace, a Grace that God made a sacrifice for humans to get for free.

 

To put it another, all humans are born to be bound by a covenant which contains the law they have to abide by. As history goes by, more and more people will fail the Law as more and more people are going away from God. For an example, those who failed to hear the gospel mainly because their ancestors after Noah decided to turn their back to God. When went out and their descendants formed other religions for them to believe to get their hearts more hardened. No mather how they change, they still need to abide by the Law God gave to them through an earlier covenant. The earliest covenant could be the one between God and Noah. They will be judged the Law if they failed to hear the gospel or decided not to accept it. It is humans' duty (God will help though) to spread the gospel to other fellows for them to make a choice (under the permission and guidance of God for one to become a believer though).

 

That's my 2 cents.

 

There was no fall back plan after Jesus, there was no 'following the Law.' Jesus said 'NOBODY comes to the Father but by me.' If we could deny Jesus, and follow the Law to reach Heaven, then Jesus wouldn't have been so specific. He would've said 'nobody comes to the Father but by me, or those who follow the Law.' If we could follow the law, OR follow Jesus, that'd be called God's 'plans' to salvation, not His 'plan.'

There's also the other problem- the Law was fulfilled in Jesus, that was God's plan for Salvation. In Matthew 5:17, Jesus said the Law would not pass away, UNTIL everything is finished. When was it finished? Well, at Jesus' moment of death on the Cross, He said 'it is finished' (John 19:30). The Law passed away the moment Jesus died, so we can't follow something that very literally doesn't exist anymore. In Matthew 5:17, Jesus said He hadn't come to abolish the Law. Of special significance in this study is the word rendered “abolish.” It translates the Greek term kataluo, literally meaning “to loosen down.” The word is found seventeen times in the New Testament. It is used, for example, of the destruction of the Jewish temple by the Romans (Matthew 26:61, Acts 6:14), and of the dissolving of the human body at death (2 Corinthians 5:1.) The term can carry the extended meaning of “to overthrow,” i.e., “to render vain, deprive of success.” In classical Greek, it was used in connection with institutions, laws, etc., to convey the idea of “to invalidate.”

 

So Jesus didn't come to say 'oh just ignore the Law, you have Grace now.' He came knowing that man couldn't abide by it, so He came to bring the Law to it's completion so man could live by Grace. The Law doesn't exist for anyone anymore. It is like that Law was a tree that Jesus burnt- you can't go and sit under the tree because it doesn't exist anymore. 

If man's obedience to the Law was key to Salvation, then Jesus' death was needless.

Edited January 21, 2014 by AlanLamb0986

[other one]

 

 

Jesus said 'NOBODY comes to the Father but by me.'

 

In saying that is He actually saying that you must go through the Romans salvation process come to the Father......  or is he simply saying that he and he alone makes that decision?

[AlanLamb0986]

 

 

 

Jesus said 'NOBODY comes to the Father but by me.'

 

In saying that is He actually saying that you must go through the Romans salvation process come to the Father......  or is he simply saying that he and he alone makes that decision?

 

Hmm, good question. We know that Jesus is the Judge, the Holy Spirit is the Seal. (Ephesians 1:13) So on the Last Day, Jesus will judge mankind by whether they trusted Him by faith alone, without trying to earn Salvation. He will know whether we've called on Him. The Salvation process is almost like a broken loop, forgive the oxymoron. We can't get to the Father unless we go through the Son, but we can't get to the Son unless the Father calls us.

[other one]

Lets let him tell us himself::::

 

Matt 25:31-46

31 "When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

34 "Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'

37 "Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'

40 "The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'

41 "Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'

44 "They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'  

45 "He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'

46 "Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

NIV