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Tax Collector or Pharisee?


Hippie333

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Are you the tax collector or the Pharisee?

Luk 18:9 He also told this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and treated others with contempt:
Luk 18:10 "Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector.
Luk 18:11 The Pharisee, standing by himself, prayed thus: 'God, I thank you that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector.
Luk 18:12 I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I get.'
Luk 18:13 But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, 'God, be merciful to me, a sinner!'
Luk 18:14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified, rather than the other. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but the one who humbles himself will be exalted."
....me lately I like to look at what Paul said about his sin -
1Ti 1:12 I thank him who has given me strength, Christ Jesus our Lord, because he judged me faithful, appointing me to his service,
1Ti 1:13 though formerly I was a blasphemer, persecutor, and insolent opponent. But I received mercy because I had acted ignorantly in unbelief,
1Ti 1:14 and the grace of our Lord overflowed for me with the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus.
1Ti 1:15 The saying is trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the foremost.
1Ti 1:16 But I received mercy for this reason, that in me, as the foremost, Jesus Christ might display his perfect patience as an example to those who were to believe in him for eternal life.....
--
See Paul, even though a man filled with the love of Christ ....knew that his sins were the same as any other mans....in verse 15 he says : I am the foremost - meaning I am the chief of sinners....

He hoped that others would see that regardless of his past as a great sinner and persecutor of Christians that others would see that if God could forgive him....that he could YOU too! - Paul had hoped that people could see that even though the best of us sin still - that it does not change what Christ did for us, that it does not change the message given by a man ( for even the best will still sin) - Christ died on the cross to free us of our sins...not give a license to sin continually, but to know we are still of the flesh, we still sin at times when we know better, or may not even want to do what we do. Paul says in Romans -
--
Rom 7:15 For I do not understand my own actions. For I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate.
Rom 7:16 Now if I do what I do not want, I agree with the law, that it is good.
Rom 7:17 So now it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me.
Rom 7:18 For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh. For I have the desire to do what is right, but not the ability to carry it out

Paul says I AM A SINNER! - I am only saved through the MERCY of Christ - I cannot do what I desire for I cannot do it alone - I can only do things with the Lord giving me the strength to do so - Paul says in 2 Corinthians -

 
2Co 12:7 So to keep me from becoming conceited because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations, a thorn was given me in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to harass me, to keep me from becoming conceited.
2Co 12:8 Three times I pleaded with the Lord about this, that it should leave me.
2Co 12:9 But he said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." Therefore I will boast all the more gladly of my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

 
 
Folks, it comes down to this - we can't cast out the message because of the messenger - we are ALL sinners - none better than the other - none worse -
We are only free from these sins through the Grace, Love and Mercy of Jesus Christ.

--

 
 
Joh 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
Joh 3:17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Joh 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
--
Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

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Folks, it comes down to this - we can't cast out the message because of the messenger - we are ALL sinners - none better than the other - none worse -
We are only free from these sins through the Grace, Love and Mercy of Jesus Christ.

--
Amen Brother  :mgcheerful:
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I can only do things with the Lord giving me the Strength to do so - Paul says in 2 Corinthian

 

Sounds something like Philippians 4:13 which states "I can do all things through Christ who Strengthens Me!!!" :)

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We are all sinners like the tax collectors and the pharisee's.But that does not give us a license to sin on purpose and keep committing the same sin over.We repent of a particular sin and move on.If we continue to committ a particular sin and think that just because we are a Christian we are covered that is not going to work.That is mocking God.

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If we follow that line - it might display pharisee attitude, no? @Bopeep 1909. There might at some points – our things - seen by others. Yes there will be be patterns. And yes, as Christians we are still covered for this single day. Optimal change is better to come soon – I agree. This Luke 18 – I read like Hippi shwoed - more as a request for good horizontal attitudes. The challange may come to learn a loving attitude facing obvious shortcommings in a brothers life.

@Dear Hippi! You have chosen a great text. Thanks. You may want that people read here - to admit something. Than we may dare to move on. There will be more to discover. Get people along side you. Work to gether with them. What can be theire spiritual giftings. And what is yours. I have hope – and this person is loving me. That continues to be verry best ground for the good fellowship.

Let me combind with your teaching of our chapter 18 taxcollectors parabol. two more texts from Luke chapter 15 and than chapter 7 also. Than I come to: Has Luke more to say? Yes. let me see for this Luke 15. Would the perspective of an elder son (parabol of the loving father) – speak simmilar to many here? Yes! Luke is a skillfull eye opener in this. And I like that quality of Luke 18 scripture.

This Man that is doing right. may come – similar to Simon (see Luke 7) into a comparrison to the real challenges of Love towards others. Dear Simons among us, are you not doing so many things right? Now, will you start to see this woman, that has shown love.

Best - Melony

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Thank you Hippie333, this is a great topic I see it was  a older one three years or so , but it has hold its standard to its teaching and you have displayed it really well, many are going to be blessed by this,

 thank you and blessings to you , I love to see that humbleness in people that fear the lord, and walk in the spirit  of love , and meekness

thank you great topic.        shalom

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Blessings Hippie,,,,,,

     What a fantastic OP,,,,,,,,,,,it is always a good thing to do a little "self" exam & take a good look in the mirror,,,,,,,,as Ambassadors for Jesus we are ALWAYS under the microscope of "the World" to see,,,,,,,,

   I can't tell you how many times I've asked myself,,,,,,"Am I the pharisee?"..........On my best days I am the Tax Collector ,on my worst days I am the Pharisee,that tells me "I am a sinner"      ,,,,,,,,a sinner Saved,Loved,Forgiven,,,,,,,,Oh but for the Grace of God,to Him be the Glory!                                                                          With love-in Christ,Kwik       (thanks Hip!) 

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I believe that as of a few days ago, that this thread is come at a good time, and for it is a great post, and it tells a lot,

 we can learn a lot from this if we open our minds to our actions, and how we ar3e treating one another on this site

 I see that as the Pharisees were against Jesus for they taught he was a threat and a abomination by saying He was God,

 and to correct them as they used the law, and position, to be and to attract people to them, in fact I read where the Pharisees would make noise and they ring bells to let people know they were there among the people , and they came to them as leaders and men of God, and jesus placed them as vipers and hypocrites so I think we need to examine our selves before we respond to anyone  for we need to make sure it comes from a spirit , and compassion for others ,

 blessings and peace

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Blessings Melony

Quote

You may want that people read here - to admit something

Quote

speak simmilar to many here

Thought provoking & insightful Topics are great,Hippie is wonderful for sharing many "Words of Wisdom" posts with us such as this one.........& a real Blessing of this Worthy Forum is that it is not just for the people here but for the "world" as well.....     Worthy has many many readers,Christians ,Seekers & non-believers too,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Gods Truth is a Blessing for anyone that receives it!!!               To God be the Glory!

                                                                                             With love-in Christ,Kwik

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On 4/7/2016 at 6:46 AM, kwikphilly said:

Blessings Hippie,,,,,,

     What a fantastic OP,,,,,,,,,,,it is always a good thing to do a little "self" exam & take a good look in the mirror,,,,,,,,as Ambassadors for Jesus we are ALWAYS under the microscope of "the World" to see,,,,,,,,

   I can't tell you how many times I've asked myself,,,,,,"Am I the pharisee?"..........On my best days I am the Tax Collector ,on my worst days I am the Pharisee,that tells me "I am a sinner"      ,,,,,,,,a sinner Saved,Loved,Forgiven,,,,,,,,Oh but for the Grace of God,to Him be the Glory!                                                                          With love-in Christ,Kwik       (thanks Hip!) 

I have always been  wondering why did Jesus say this story, and at the end he said that this tax collector  went home justified to him self. More than the Pharisee .

Let's make the comparison , according to that time, when both of these men were examine under the Law.

The Gospel was not yet been preached , none of them was under the blood of Jesus Christ . 

Both of them were born and lived under the Law.

The Pharisee had the righteousness of the Law, even Jesus recognize the high threshold and use the righteousness of the Pharisees, in an example when he said to his disciples , unless your righteousness surpasses the righteousness of the Pharisees you will not enter the Kingdom of God. 

I know that I am going against the grain with this.

The Lord God was the one who demanded from his people to have the righteousness of the Law, and he made them like that, the result would be for them to be proud and boastull , because the righteousness of the Law, was depended upon ones individual discipline and continuous  effort to be obedience to the Law. 

The sinner to the Law was the tax collector . 

The tax collector was not s believer in the Gospel , Jesus had not died yet, and nothing in the Law said that if someone did what the tax collector did, he will be made righteous in the eyes of the Law and God.

Under the Law and God this tax collector went to the Temple condemn and he left condemn, this is not the way to cleance one own self from sins according to the Law. 

Jesus never said that he went home justified in the eyes of the Law and God. 

He said that he went to his house justified , in himself , having peace in him self, 

That what we call replacement theology.

What he did it was not within the guidelines of the Law. 

If Jesus was looking ahead, when God's righteousness will be preach in his name, by faith in him alone, and he was commenting upon the way the Tax collector cleance his guildy consience , and how the Tax collector got peace in his heart, and went on in his life, without having a sensitive guilty conscience like the Pharisse , looking all the time in the mirror to see that he has clean clothes and living in a constant state how to keep them clean, Amen. 

And unlike the Pharisee he did not have to spent his time judging other people by his knowledge of what is sin or not, and saying even if you have Jesus righteousness unless you are as I am. 

Clean, or having stopped of polluting my garments,  your faith in Jesus Christ will not be accepted by Jesus Christ him self, and he will take his imputed righteousness from you and sent you to Hell.

Jesus is telling us, that if we have come to the discipline level not to give to the temptation of sins, this is very good for us, but not to thing that Jesus wants only us and not his other children who have their own struggles to cope with and they can not help it but to sin, 

Jesus was perfect but he fellowship with the sinners, not to Judge them, no one time he went to them to say Repent or else , not ones, 

Instant he said , be of good comfort , a new righteousness is on the way, have no fear of your sins, and your weakness , soon you will not need your own obedience to have peace with God, it will be in my name. 

In. My Name your Sins can not sent you to Hell. 

In this matter have your peace as you are , as you are in your sins, Jesus is asking you to believe in him. 

While you are having peace with God and you are saved from Hell only by faith in Jesus Christ, 

And having peace in the above matters you are seeking to have peace with your guilty consience, perhaps do what the tax collector did, or follow the so many paths in this matter, according to what you have done. .

There is not a genera rule, don't disturb others in your quest for peace, do it in your heart, and to others by your change in your attitude. The more peaceful way.  

 

 

 

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