Micheal Westin Posted October 8, 2013 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 1 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 616 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 96 Days Won: 3 Joined: 03/07/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted October 8, 2013 I don't think there is a problem with criticizing Amish beliefs and practices that don't line up with the gospel. what doesn't line up with the gospel, they are following what Paul taught in 1 Timothy 2:2 ......"live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness.".......... the great commission was given to the disciples who were apostles, they were commissioned to make disciples of all men, are not the Amish training up their children in the way they should go, making them disciples of Christ. the bible doesn't teach that every person is an apostle, or a prophet or a teacher or an evangelist these are God given appointments, as common believers we are only taught to love the Lord our God and love others as ourselves, not everyone was called to go out into all the world and preach the gospel, this was given to the apostles and of course we all can minister in the corner of the world God has us, there are all sorts of ways people minister to others, you don't have to go door to door Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alphaparticle Posted October 8, 2013 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 48 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,363 Content Per Day: 0.35 Reputation: 403 Days Won: 5 Joined: 08/01/2013 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 8, 2013 I don't think there is a problem with criticizing Amish beliefs and practices that don't line up with the gospel. what doesn't line up with the gospel, they are following what Paul taught in 1 Timothy 2:2 ......"live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness.".......... the great commission was given to the disciples who were apostles, they were commissioned to make disciples of all men, are not the Amish training up their children in the way they should go, making them disciples of Christ. the bible doesn't teach that every person is an apostle, or a prophet or a teacher or an evangelist these are God given appointments, as common believers we are only taught to love the Lord our God and love others as ourselves, not everyone was called to go out into all the world and preach the gospel, this was given to the apostles and of course we all can minister in the corner of the world God has us, there are all sorts of ways people minister to others, you don't have to go door to door Did you read the OP? Not only do they fail to evangelize (which living a quiet and meek life and saying nothing about the gospel I do not think counts) they also think that following their churches rules helps them earn salvation. If they fail to live up to all of these rules they could go to hell. This is a fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micheal Westin Posted October 9, 2013 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 1 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 616 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 96 Days Won: 3 Joined: 03/07/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted October 9, 2013 I don't think there is a problem with criticizing Amish beliefs and practices that don't line up with the gospel. what doesn't line up with the gospel, they are following what Paul taught in 1 Timothy 2:2 ......"live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness.".......... the great commission was given to the disciples who were apostles, they were commissioned to make disciples of all men, are not the Amish training up their children in the way they should go, making them disciples of Christ. the bible doesn't teach that every person is an apostle, or a prophet or a teacher or an evangelist these are God given appointments, as common believers we are only taught to love the Lord our God and love others as ourselves, not everyone was called to go out into all the world and preach the gospel, this was given to the apostles and of course we all can minister in the corner of the world God has us, there are all sorts of ways people minister to others, you don't have to go door to door Did you read the OP? Not only do they fail to evangelize (which living a quiet and meek life and saying nothing about the gospel I do not think counts) they also think that following their churches rules helps them earn salvation. If they fail to live up to all of these rules they could go to hell. This is a fail. well you know that those rules will not forbid their entry into heaven, will they! the important thing is they will enter heaven having believed that Jesus is the Son of God and having repented of their sins and believing that His death on the cross is the atonement for their sins. all that will happen on judgment day is they will find out they could of wore regular clothes and drove a car biblically like the nazarites whatever you do in sacrifice to the worship of God, whether it is fasting or not drinking wine when you do it onto the Lord as a personal sacrifice God takes pleasure in it. we see from scripture the apostles were going to fast after the bridegroom left, what purpose of not eating helps someone gain salvation, it doesn't but its a personal act of sacrifice and it is done to honor God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alphaparticle Posted October 9, 2013 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 48 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,363 Content Per Day: 0.35 Reputation: 403 Days Won: 5 Joined: 08/01/2013 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 9, 2013 I don't think there is a problem with criticizing Amish beliefs and practices that don't line up with the gospel. what doesn't line up with the gospel, they are following what Paul taught in 1 Timothy 2:2 ......"live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness.".......... the great commission was given to the disciples who were apostles, they were commissioned to make disciples of all men, are not the Amish training up their children in the way they should go, making them disciples of Christ. the bible doesn't teach that every person is an apostle, or a prophet or a teacher or an evangelist these are God given appointments, as common believers we are only taught to love the Lord our God and love others as ourselves, not everyone was called to go out into all the world and preach the gospel, this was given to the apostles and of course we all can minister in the corner of the world God has us, there are all sorts of ways people minister to others, you don't have to go door to door Did you read the OP? Not only do they fail to evangelize (which living a quiet and meek life and saying nothing about the gospel I do not think counts) they also think that following their churches rules helps them earn salvation. If they fail to live up to all of these rules they could go to hell. This is a fail. well you know that those rules will not forbid their entry into heaven, will they! the important thing is they will enter heaven having believed that Jesus is the Son of God and having repented of their sins and believing that His death on the cross is the atonement for their sins. all that will happen on judgment day is they will find out they could of wore regular clothes and drove a car biblically like the nazarites whatever you do in sacrifice to the worship of God, whether it is fasting or not drinking wine when you do it onto the Lord as a personal sacrifice God takes pleasure in it. we see from scripture the apostles were going to fast after the bridegroom left, what purpose of not eating helps someone gain salvation, it doesn't but its a personal act of sacrifice and it is done to honor God They are doing it because they think if they don't they will go to hell, which is factually incorrect and further disobey God by not obeying Jesus' instructions to share the gospel. i am not saying that they will in fact go to hell, but these are not people to be emulating. eph 1:13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, People living without technology does not share the 'word of truth' or communicate the 'gospel of your salvation'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micheal Westin Posted October 10, 2013 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 1 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 616 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 96 Days Won: 3 Joined: 03/07/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted October 10, 2013 I don't think there is a problem with criticizing Amish beliefs and practices that don't line up with the gospel. what doesn't line up with the gospel, they are following what Paul taught in 1 Timothy 2:2 ......"live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness.".......... the great commission was given to the disciples who were apostles, they were commissioned to make disciples of all men, are not the Amish training up their children in the way they should go, making them disciples of Christ. the bible doesn't teach that every person is an apostle, or a prophet or a teacher or an evangelist these are God given appointments, as common believers we are only taught to love the Lord our God and love others as ourselves, not everyone was called to go out into all the world and preach the gospel, this was given to the apostles and of course we all can minister in the corner of the world God has us, there are all sorts of ways people minister to others, you don't have to go door to door Did you read the OP? Not only do they fail to evangelize (which living a quiet and meek life and saying nothing about the gospel I do not think counts) they also think that following their churches rules helps them earn salvation. If they fail to live up to all of these rules they could go to hell. This is a fail. well you know that those rules will not forbid their entry into heaven, will they! the important thing is they will enter heaven having believed that Jesus is the Son of God and having repented of their sins and believing that His death on the cross is the atonement for their sins. all that will happen on judgment day is they will find out they could of wore regular clothes and drove a car biblically like the nazarites whatever you do in sacrifice to the worship of God, whether it is fasting or not drinking wine when you do it onto the Lord as a personal sacrifice God takes pleasure in it. we see from scripture the apostles were going to fast after the bridegroom left, what purpose of not eating helps someone gain salvation, it doesn't but its a personal act of sacrifice and it is done to honor God They are doing it because they think if they don't they will go to hell, which is factually incorrect and further disobey God by not obeying Jesus' instructions to share the gospel. i am not saying that they will in fact go to hell, but these are not people to be emulating. eph 1:13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, People living without technology does not share the 'word of truth' or communicate the 'gospel of your salvation'. so now without technology they are inefficient to share the gospel? how far should each person travel to be a witness to others and share the gospel, or how many facebook fans does a Christian need to "Like Jesus" to constitute being a faithful follower. and on average in a church in todays world where believers are living amongst the lost do individual believers lead someone to the Lord. I think you would be very surprised how very few that spent their life filling a pew in one of America's churches that are sprinkled amongst the unsaved have ever witnessed or led anyone to a saving faith in Jesus Christ and here a relatively small group of believers that have high hopes of trying to stay pure from the corruption of this world, that may have some false notions of what is considered sin yet hold to the faith and belief in Jesus are being criticized for their lack of evangelism, because why an Amish person has never knocked on your door? have you ever knocked on theirs? bottom line how many people should each Christian witness to on a yearly basis........you want to talk about legalism Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alphaparticle Posted October 10, 2013 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 48 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,363 Content Per Day: 0.35 Reputation: 403 Days Won: 5 Joined: 08/01/2013 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 10, 2013 I don't think there is a problem with criticizing Amish beliefs and practices that don't line up with the gospel. what doesn't line up with the gospel, they are following what Paul taught in 1 Timothy 2:2 ......"live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness.".......... the great commission was given to the disciples who were apostles, they were commissioned to make disciples of all men, are not the Amish training up their children in the way they should go, making them disciples of Christ. the bible doesn't teach that every person is an apostle, or a prophet or a teacher or an evangelist these are God given appointments, as common believers we are only taught to love the Lord our God and love others as ourselves, not everyone was called to go out into all the world and preach the gospel, this was given to the apostles and of course we all can minister in the corner of the world God has us, there are all sorts of ways people minister to others, you don't have to go door to door Did you read the OP? Not only do they fail to evangelize (which living a quiet and meek life and saying nothing about the gospel I do not think counts) they also think that following their churches rules helps them earn salvation. If they fail to live up to all of these rules they could go to hell. This is a fail. well you know that those rules will not forbid their entry into heaven, will they! the important thing is they will enter heaven having believed that Jesus is the Son of God and having repented of their sins and believing that His death on the cross is the atonement for their sins. all that will happen on judgment day is they will find out they could of wore regular clothes and drove a car biblically like the nazarites whatever you do in sacrifice to the worship of God, whether it is fasting or not drinking wine when you do it onto the Lord as a personal sacrifice God takes pleasure in it. we see from scripture the apostles were going to fast after the bridegroom left, what purpose of not eating helps someone gain salvation, it doesn't but its a personal act of sacrifice and it is done to honor God They are doing it because they think if they don't they will go to hell, which is factually incorrect and further disobey God by not obeying Jesus' instructions to share the gospel. i am not saying that they will in fact go to hell, but these are not people to be emulating. eph 1:13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, People living without technology does not share the 'word of truth' or communicate the 'gospel of your salvation'. so now without technology they are inefficient to share the gospel? how far should each person travel to be a witness to others and share the gospel, or how many facebook fans does a Christian need to "Like Jesus" to constitute being a faithful follower. and on average in a church in todays world where believers are living amongst the lost do individual believers lead someone to the Lord. I think you would be very surprised how very few that spent their life filling a pew in one of America's churches that are sprinkled amongst the unsaved have ever witnessed or led anyone to a saving faith in Jesus Christ and here a relatively small group of believers that have high hopes of trying to stay pure from the corruption of this world, that may have some false notions of what is considered sin yet hold to the faith and belief in Jesus are being criticized for their lack of evangelism, because why an Amish person has never knocked on your door? have you ever knocked on theirs? bottom line how many people should each Christian witness to on a yearly basis........you want to talk about legalism The thing is, they *don't* evangelize, with or without technology. It's a part of their lifestyle that they aren't sharing the gospel. The entire group! If they were truly a group of believers inspired by the Holy Spirit, doesn't that seem a bit odd that *no one* feels the compulsion to spread the gospel? That and you haven't dealt with the other aspects of what I shared, the belief that if they don't follow all these extra rules they go to hell. As far as my worthiness, you're right, I suck. I never really claimed otherwise though. The only hope I have, in all truth, is God's mercy. And further I realize even the faith I have is due directly to God's intervention, because I can't even conjure that up. This isn't about me thinking I'm better than these people, I don't. My issue is with holding up a community that teaches things like, if you fail to live by a bunch of arbitrary rules they made up they may cast you up and you'll go to hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shorryshaggy Posted October 10, 2013 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 97 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 18 Days Won: 1 Joined: 12/18/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/18/1966 Share Posted October 10, 2013 well since they are a closed community they wouldn't evangilize cause they believe you have to be amish to go to heaven and they don't want anyone else in their community unless you are born into it. Also in my opinion they are very prideful in their simple life at least the ones i have experienced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alphaparticle Posted October 10, 2013 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 48 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,363 Content Per Day: 0.35 Reputation: 403 Days Won: 5 Joined: 08/01/2013 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 10, 2013 well since they are a closed community they wouldn't evangilize cause they believe you have to be amish to go to heaven and they don't want anyone else in their community unless you are born into it. Also in my opinion they are very prideful in their simple life at least the ones i have experienced. Yeah I guess i don't understand why a life in old timey clothing and sans technology is considered morally superior by anyone to start with. I see nothing in scripture which suggests anything like that as an ideal. I'm sure there are many decent Amish people, but that is true in every community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shorryshaggy Posted October 11, 2013 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 97 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 18 Days Won: 1 Joined: 12/18/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/18/1966 Share Posted October 11, 2013 well since they are a closed community they wouldn't evangilize cause they believe you have to be amish to go to heaven and they don't want anyone else in their community unless you are born into it. Also in my opinion they are very prideful in their simple life at least the ones i have experienced. Yeah I guess i don't understand why a life in old timey clothing and sans technology is considered morally superior by anyone to start with. I see nothing in scripture which suggests anything like that as an ideal. I'm sure there are many decent Amish people, but that is true in every community. thing is they will use technology they just don't own it so they will use yours. They have phones but in the barn or by the street and cell phones for business. They will ride in cars and some will be ok with flying they use computers at the library or someone else's and the newer generation is turning to more technology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micheal Westin Posted October 11, 2013 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 1 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 616 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 96 Days Won: 3 Joined: 03/07/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted October 11, 2013 I don't think there is a problem with criticizing Amish beliefs and practices that don't line up with the gospel. what doesn't line up with the gospel, they are following what Paul taught in 1 Timothy 2:2 ......"live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness.".......... the great commission was given to the disciples who were apostles, they were commissioned to make disciples of all men, are not the Amish training up their children in the way they should go, making them disciples of Christ. the bible doesn't teach that every person is an apostle, or a prophet or a teacher or an evangelist these are God given appointments, as common believers we are only taught to love the Lord our God and love others as ourselves, not everyone was called to go out into all the world and preach the gospel, this was given to the apostles and of course we all can minister in the corner of the world God has us, there are all sorts of ways people minister to others, you don't have to go door to door Did you read the OP? Not only do they fail to evangelize (which living a quiet and meek life and saying nothing about the gospel I do not think counts) they also think that following their churches rules helps them earn salvation. If they fail to live up to all of these rules they could go to hell. This is a fail. well you know that those rules will not forbid their entry into heaven, will they! the important thing is they will enter heaven having believed that Jesus is the Son of God and having repented of their sins and believing that His death on the cross is the atonement for their sins. all that will happen on judgment day is they will find out they could of wore regular clothes and drove a car biblically like the nazarites whatever you do in sacrifice to the worship of God, whether it is fasting or not drinking wine when you do it onto the Lord as a personal sacrifice God takes pleasure in it. we see from scripture the apostles were going to fast after the bridegroom left, what purpose of not eating helps someone gain salvation, it doesn't but its a personal act of sacrifice and it is done to honor God They are doing it because they think if they don't they will go to hell, which is factually incorrect and further disobey God by not obeying Jesus' instructions to share the gospel. i am not saying that they will in fact go to hell, but these are not people to be emulating. eph 1:13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, People living without technology does not share the 'word of truth' or communicate the 'gospel of your salvation'. so now without technology they are inefficient to share the gospel? how far should each person travel to be a witness to others and share the gospel, or how many facebook fans does a Christian need to "Like Jesus" to constitute being a faithful follower. and on average in a church in todays world where believers are living amongst the lost do individual believers lead someone to the Lord. I think you would be very surprised how very few that spent their life filling a pew in one of America's churches that are sprinkled amongst the unsaved have ever witnessed or led anyone to a saving faith in Jesus Christ and here a relatively small group of believers that have high hopes of trying to stay pure from the corruption of this world, that may have some false notions of what is considered sin yet hold to the faith and belief in Jesus are being criticized for their lack of evangelism, because why an Amish person has never knocked on your door? have you ever knocked on theirs? bottom line how many people should each Christian witness to on a yearly basis........you want to talk about legalism The thing is, they *don't* evangelize, with or without technology. It's a part of their lifestyle that they aren't sharing the gospel. The entire group! If they were truly a group of believers inspired by the Holy Spirit, doesn't that seem a bit odd that *no one* feels the compulsion to spread the gospel? That and you haven't dealt with the other aspects of what I shared, the belief that if they don't follow all these extra rules they go to hell. As far as my worthiness, you're right, I suck. I never really claimed otherwise though. The only hope I have, in all truth, is God's mercy. And further I realize even the faith I have is due directly to God's intervention, because I can't even conjure that up. This isn't about me thinking I'm better than these people, I don't. My issue is with holding up a community that teaches things like, if you fail to live by a bunch of arbitrary rules they made up they may cast you up and you'll go to hell. I've read the bible quite a few times, I really don't see that everyone is called to evangelize, I see that those who are called by God to preach and teach and some are called to evangelize but for the most part a larger portion is called to support those who have been called and to be witnesses of God's love right where they are in life, whether they are milking a cow, or they are installing fiber optics in a new building. I believe the bible simply teaches to live a life full of love, and to be salt and light by your actions and the way you live. In reading the bible I find that the great commission is given to the apostles, in which they were called to make disciples, a disciple is a disciplined follower of Christ. being a disciple does not mean that your an apostle or a prophet, or a preacher, a teacher, or an evangelist to be sure its probably better that some people don't evangelize as they are not called by God to do so and they are really bad at it even the apostle Paul mentions that not everyone should consider themselves to be teachers or preachers as they will be judged harder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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