gray wolf Posted October 7, 2013 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 28 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,046 Content Per Day: 0.27 Reputation: 194 Days Won: 2 Joined: 09/25/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/30/1960 Share Posted October 7, 2013 I was doing some reading on the Kalam Cosmological Argument recently. It is a very good argument but there are some objections which I think lead to a Scottish Verdict: not proven. Two of the assumptions of the Argument are that there are no infinites in the real universe and that all events must have a cause. But some physicists, most notably Victor Stenger, object that in quantum mechanics there are truly infinities and cases where there is no cause. This got me interested in some of their cases and a couple are very interesting: radio active decay, which is relatively easy to grasp. Then I read a description of the Casimir Effect which gives compelling evidence that there do seem to be infinites in the real world. It is not any easy topic. I am not a physicist. . . I didn't take physics in college; physics took me. Later in physical chemistry I did absorb a smattering of quantum mechanics and relativity and it has always been an interest of mine. Is anyone aware of other "evidence" of these strange ideas in reality other than in mathematics? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addai Posted October 7, 2013 Group: Junior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 85 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 20 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/27/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/07/1967 Share Posted October 7, 2013 (edited) Yes if you remember the conversation I had with Alpha a few days ago we were talking about that. But I thought according to Mitso Kaku those infinites are mistake or defect in the theory and not something that is real. The equation or theory is failing or "having a nervous breakdown" as he put it. Edited October 7, 2013 by Addai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alphaparticle Posted October 7, 2013 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 48 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,363 Content Per Day: 0.35 Reputation: 403 Days Won: 5 Joined: 08/01/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted October 7, 2013 Yes if you remember the conversation I had with Alpha a few days ago we were talking about that. But I thought according to Mitso Kaku those infinites are mistake or defect in the theory and not something that is real. The equation or theory is failing or "having a nervous breakdown" as he put it. Did you get a chance to check out the Feynman lectures? Honestly, I would not form my opinions about physics based on popular shows. It's true Kaku is a genuine physicist, but the shows he does are very dumbed down and I don't think they are doing you justice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alphaparticle Posted October 7, 2013 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 48 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,363 Content Per Day: 0.35 Reputation: 403 Days Won: 5 Joined: 08/01/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted October 7, 2013 I was doing some reading on the Kalam Cosmological Argument recently. It is a very good argument but there are some objections which I think lead to a Scottish Verdict: not proven. Two of the assumptions of the Argument are that there are no infinites in the real universe and that all events must have a cause. But some physicists, most notably Victor Stenger, object that in quantum mechanics there are truly infinities and cases where there is no cause. This got me interested in some of their cases and a couple are very interesting: radio active decay, which is relatively easy to grasp. Then I read a description of the Casimir Effect which gives compelling evidence that there do seem to be infinites in the real world. It is not any easy topic. I am not a physicist. . . I didn't take physics in college; physics took me. Later in physical chemistry I did absorb a smattering of quantum mechanics and relativity and it has always been an interest of mine. Is anyone aware of other "evidence" of these strange ideas in reality other than in mathematics? The Casimir Effect shows that virtual particles really exist. If you take two conducting plates, put them in an absolute vacuum, there is still a mysterious pressure which seems to want to push them together a little bit. This is due to the virtual particles on the outside of the plates outnumbering the ones on the inside. As far as there being infinities there, that is a QED effect and quantum electrodynamics is renormalizable. That is, I don't think that case brings up worrisome infinities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addai Posted October 7, 2013 Group: Junior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 85 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 20 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/27/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/07/1967 Share Posted October 7, 2013 I started looking at the dynamics one And saw the short one where he talked about his views as far as the existence of God is concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alphaparticle Posted October 7, 2013 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 48 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,363 Content Per Day: 0.35 Reputation: 403 Days Won: 5 Joined: 08/01/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted October 7, 2013 I started looking at the dynamics one And saw the short one where he talked about his views as far as the existence of God is concerned. Ah yeah- enjoy. I recommend the QED series if you have the time. I'm afraid belief is not too common in the physics community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gray wolf Posted October 8, 2013 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 28 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,046 Content Per Day: 0.27 Reputation: 194 Days Won: 2 Joined: 09/25/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/30/1960 Author Share Posted October 8, 2013 I was doing some reading on the Kalam Cosmological Argument recently. It is a very good argument but there are some objections which I think lead to a Scottish Verdict: not proven. Two of the assumptions of the Argument are that there are no infinites in the real universe and that all events must have a cause. But some physicists, most notably Victor Stenger, object that in quantum mechanics there are truly infinities and cases where there is no cause. This got me interested in some of their cases and a couple are very interesting: radio active decay, which is relatively easy to grasp. Then I read a description of the Casimir Effect which gives compelling evidence that there do seem to be infinites in the real world. It is not any easy topic. I am not a physicist. . . I didn't take physics in college; physics took me. Later in physical chemistry I did absorb a smattering of quantum mechanics and relativity and it has always been an interest of mine. Is anyone aware of other "evidence" of these strange ideas in reality other than in mathematics? The Casimir Effect shows that virtual particles really exist. If you take two conducting plates, put them in an absolute vacuum, there is still a mysterious pressure which seems to want to push them together a little bit. This is due to the virtual particles on the outside of the plates outnumbering the ones on the inside. As far as there being infinities there, that is a QED effect and quantum electrodynamics is renormalizable. That is, I don't think that case brings up worrisome infinities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gray wolf Posted October 8, 2013 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 28 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,046 Content Per Day: 0.27 Reputation: 194 Days Won: 2 Joined: 09/25/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/30/1960 Author Share Posted October 8, 2013 I was doing some reading on the Kalam Cosmological Argument recently. It is a very good argument but there are some objections which I think lead to a Scottish Verdict: not proven. Two of the assumptions of the Argument are that there are no infinites in the real universe and that all events must have a cause. But some physicists, most notably Victor Stenger, object that in quantum mechanics there are truly infinities and cases where there is no cause. This got me interested in some of their cases and a couple are very interesting: radio active decay, which is relatively easy to grasp. Then I read a description of the Casimir Effect which gives compelling evidence that there do seem to be infinites in the real world. It is not any easy topic. I am not a physicist. . . I didn't take physics in college; physics took me. Later in physical chemistry I did absorb a smattering of quantum mechanics and relativity and it has always been an interest of mine. Is anyone aware of other "evidence" of these strange ideas in reality other than in mathematics? The Casimir Effect shows that virtual particles really exist. If you take two conducting plates, put them in an absolute vacuum, there is still a mysterious pressure which seems to want to push them together a little bit. This is due to the virtual particles on the outside of the plates outnumbering the ones on the inside. As far as there being infinities there, that is a QED effect and quantum electrodynamics is renormalizable. That is, I don't think that case brings up worrisome infinities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gray wolf Posted October 8, 2013 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 28 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,046 Content Per Day: 0.27 Reputation: 194 Days Won: 2 Joined: 09/25/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/30/1960 Author Share Posted October 8, 2013 The wavelengths outside the plates are a greater infinity than the infinity between the plates them as I understand it. I'll stick with the macro worlds for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alphaparticle Posted October 8, 2013 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 48 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,363 Content Per Day: 0.35 Reputation: 403 Days Won: 5 Joined: 08/01/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted October 8, 2013 The wavelengths outside the plates are a greater infinity than the infinity between the plates them as I understand it. I'll stick with the macro worlds for now. You can only have so many virtual photons whose wavelengths can fit inside (they have to be integer values involving the distance between the plates), on the outside there is no such boundary condition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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