The Holy Spirit is a person and not a force

[Samuel Stuart Maynes]

How can the Spirit be a person and not have freedom of will? And, if freewill is a prerogative of personality, does the Qur'an have a point in speculating that the individual wills of the free persons of the Trinity may eventually conflict, and then each would tend to "take their portion of the kingdom and go their own way?" It would seem that there is always a danger that the creation could fall apart, unless there is only One God with one will.

 

Samuel Stuart Maynes

[Guest shiloh357]

How can the Spirit be a person and not have freedom of will? And, if freewill is a prerogative of personality, does the Qur'an have a point in speculating that the individual wills of the free persons of the Trinity may eventually conflict, and then each would tend to "take their portion of the kingdom and go their own way?" It would seem that there is always a danger that the creation could fall apart, unless there is only One God with one will.

 

Samuel Stuart Maynes

Who carea about the Koran?

 

The Holy Spirit is a Person, the third Person of the Trinity.  He is not just a Person; He is God.

[chongjasmine]

Prove me wrong.

I don't have to prove you wrong. I agree with you. The Holy Spirit is a person. I had heard Him spoke to me before.

[Jesse2014]

The Holy Spirit is definately a person.

[Guest]

How can the Spirit be a person and not have freedom of will?

 

And, if freewill is a prerogative of personality,

 

does the Qur'an have a point in speculating that the individual wills of the free persons of the Trinity may eventually conflict,

 

and then each would tend to "take their portion of the kingdom and go their own way?"

 

It would seem that there is always a danger that the creation could fall apart, unless there is only One God with one will.

 

 

One LORD

 

And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:

And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.

And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these. Mark 14:29-31

 

One Way

 

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. John 14:6

 

One Body

 

There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. Ephesians 4:4-6

 

One Hope

 

But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,

Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. Titus 3:4-7

 

One Book

 

Every word of God proves true; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him. Do not add to his words, lest he rebuke you and you be found a liar. Proverbs 30:5-6 (ESV)

 

~

 

Believe

 

But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:8

 

And Be Blessed Beloved

 

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16

 

Love, Joe

[Dani]

here are some verses for you to consider.

jesus says he will ask the father, and he will give the comforter, the holy spirit.

and that the holy spirit dwells with them and will be in them.

jesus then goes on to say that he himself will not leave them comfortless, he will come to them.

 

John 14

16And I will pray the Father, and he will give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and will be in you.

18I will not leave you comfortless; I will come to you. 19Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. 20At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

 

jesus is the lord, and the lord is the holy spirit.

 

1Corinthian 12

3Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God, calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit.

 

2Coritnhians 3

17Now the Lord is the Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty

 

1Cointhians 12

4Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. 6And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God who worketh all in all. 7But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man for profit. 8For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another, the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;9To another, faith by the same Spirit; to another, the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; 10To another, the working of miracles; to another, prophecy; to another, discerning of spirits; to another, divers kinds of languages; to another, the interpretation of languages: 11But all these worketh that one and the same Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

 

the spirit of god is gods presence. 

 

Psalms 139

7Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence?

8If I ascend into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.

9If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea;

10Even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy right hand shall hold me.

 

the holy spirit is a part of god, just as our own spirit is a part of us.

 

1Corinthians 2

9But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

10But God hath revealed them to us by his Spirit; for the Spirit searcheth all things, even the deep things of God. 11For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. 

 

the spirit is also called the finger of god and the power of god.

 

Matthew 12

28But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come to you.

 

Luke 11

20But if I with the finger of God cast out demons, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you.

 

 

[Dani]

2 more verses to add,

 

 

matthew 11:27       no-one knoweth         the father            but         the son.

1corinthian 2:11    no-one knoweth     the mind of god     but    the spirit of god,

[Jzyehoshua]

I agree with the OP that the Holy Spirit is an individual not a force. The Bible says the Holy Spirit can be grieved and is our access to God the Father.

 

Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

 

1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
 

Ephesians 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

 

I would also point out that there's confusion here over what being "one" means. People tend to ignore that Christians are said to be "one" with God in the same way Jesus was "one" with the Father, and in the same chapter no less.

 

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

 

John 17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
 21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
 22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
 23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

 

Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

 

Hebrews 2:11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,

 

Now, Jesus, God the Father, and God the Holy Spirit all are said to bear witness in Heaven.

 

1 John 5:6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.
 7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
 8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

 

However, there does seem to be a progression in authority. Jesus is above all but God the Father, since Jesus helped create all that exists. Jesus is above humans and every other name. God the Father is the only one above Jesus.

 

Ephesians 1:21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
 22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
 23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

 

Colossians 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
 16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
 17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
 18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
 19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;

 

John 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

 

John 8:17  It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.
 18 I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.

 

Oneness even applies to marriage as well it seems:

 

Mark 10:7 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife;
 8 And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh.

 

1 Corinthians 6:16 What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.
 17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.

 

It is interesting that the book of Acts as well as other books repeatedly speaks of the Christian church worshipping God with a oneness or singleness of heart, mind, and spirit. (Acts 1:14, 2:1, 2:46, 4:24, 4:32, 5:12,15:25, Romans 12:16, 15:5-7, 1 Corinthians 3:8, 2 Corinthians 13:11, Philippians 1:27, 2:2, 1 Peter 3:8)

 

Paul uses the analogy of the Christian body to describe how Christians are one as a church, with different members but one whole. (Romans 12:4-8, 1 Corinthians 10:17, 12:4-31, Colossians 3:15)

 

There's a lot of confusion over what the Bible means when it speaks of oneness, hopefully this helps clarify somewhat. To me the whole concept of oneness is summed up in this verse:

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Edited July 26, 2014 by Jzyehoshua

[Defending the Name]

Prove me wrong.

No one can prove you wrong nor is anyone in the position of proving anybody wrong, because we need to know our fickleness and not feed on the wrongs of others. What we can do is to show the love of Christ and point unbelievers to the scripture to show them that the Holy Spirit is our Lord and our Father.

John 14:8-24

8 Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.”

(Phillip wants to see and know the personhood of the heavenly Eternal Father)

9 Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me?

(Jesus tells Phillip to snap out of it and to not look beyond his personhood for the Eternal Father, for he is the Father)

The Father and the Son are the same person who is the Holy Spirit for God is Spirit (John 4:24)

11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves.

(Jesus is saying that he is in the Father and the Father is in him, in context to the Holy Ghost)

Jesus Promises the Holy Spirit

15 “If you love me, keep my commands. 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.

(Jesus saying he is in the Father and the Father in him is in context to the Comforter / advocate who is the Holy Ghost)

18 I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.

(How will you come back to us Lord Jesus?)

19 Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live.

(What do you mean the world will never see you again and we (disciples) will see you?)

20 On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you.

(On that day? Jesus do you mean Pentecost? If yes, then you being in us and we in you is in Spirit right? Lord Jesus are you the Holy Ghost who will not leave us as orphans, but you said previously that you will come back to us (disciples) right?)

21 Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them.”

(How will you manifest yourself on us but not the world?)

22 Then Judas (not Judas Iscariot) said, “But, Lord, why do you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world?”

(Context is the Holy Ghost that was to be given on Pentecost)

23 Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.

(So you and the Father will come to make your home in the believer, who is the Father and how will you come Lord Jesus )

There leaves no question that the Father and the Son are two relationships that God the Holy Spirit has taken on when creating the world, in Genesis account, when he came as the Light/life on day one of Genesis and as declared in John 1:1-4, where Jesus the word is the Light / life who created all life, thereby he by definition is claimed in:

Isaiah 9:6

6 For to us a child is born,

to us a son is given,

and the government will be on his shoulders.

And he will be called

Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,

EVERLASTING FATHER, Prince of Peace.

So Jesus you said you will not leave us as orphans but will come back to comfort our hearts and make your dwelling in us as your spiritual bride and that is what you meant when you said we in you and you in us, in spiritual marriage.

So who is the Holy Ghost?

Jesus told Phillip to not look beyond his personhood for the Father and said that he will come back to his disciples in context to the Holy Ghost that was to be given.

Not only can we say that the Holy Ghost is a person but that he is The Lord himself who came in spiritual marriage of oneness with his earthly bride.

Phillip couldn't understand what John was saying when he wrote:

John 1:1-5

1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2The same was in the beginning with God. 3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4In him was life; and the life was the light of men. 5And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

So it is the living Word who had manifested himself as the Son of Man to the Angels and later to man as the Jesus as Nazareth. The living word is the light that initiated the first day of creation and if we read who that light / life is, then we can understand that the trinity is tied to the personhood of the risen lord.

Genesis 1:1-4

1In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

(The Holy Spirit moved upon the waters)

The First Day: Light

3And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. 4And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. 5And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

(Let there be light / life is the declaration the Holy Ghost made to begin the first day of Genesis and Jesus claims to be that light/life and John testifies to that as the second witness.)

Romans 8:9-10

9You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ. 10But if Christ is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin, the Spirit gives lifed because of righteousness.

It is Christ's Holy Spirit for the living a Word is the Holy Ghost who dwells in the hearts of the believers as the Father and also the Son in terms of relationship to his own creation.

Edited September 2, 2014 by Defending the Name

[Guest]

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