Walid Shoebat - Bible prophecy and the Muslim anti-Christ

[OakWood]

A good view of the End Times from Walid Shoebat.

 

http://youtu.be/RQ8C-qe3qSM

[Guest]

http://youtu.be/RQ8C-qe3qSM

[angels4u]

Thanks for posting this message, it,s very interesting.......

[OakWood]

I think that he shows a different perspective from a lot of other eschatologists.

[Ih8s8n]

Okay.

 

I watched the video and, although I agree with Shoebat that there are numerous mentions of coming destruction upon Muslim nations in the Bible, nevertheless, Shoebat has some fatal flaws in his theology.  For example, if you start at the 20:20 point in the video and continue through to the 21:01 point of the same, then you will hear Shoebat say the following and I quote:

 

 

"In fact, the Bible continues to say, 'the one that was, yet is not', the number seven, that is, 'is himself also the eighth'.  Aha!  Number seven, the seventh head, that is, or the seventh mountain, that is, was wounded in the head and its wound was healed.  It revives again.  The Islamic empire will come again in the ends of times and this seems to be collaborated with all the literal texts mentioned in scripture, every single reference, in the Bible, that mentions the name of the nations that God destroys in the ends of times, every single one is Muslim."

 

 

Well, there's a major problem here for, IN FACT, the Bible says no such thing.  IN FACT, this is what the Bible actually says (and you can read the same in any translation or version):

 

Revelation 17:10-11

 

"And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.  And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition."

 

Whereas Shoebat says that the Bible says that the seventh kingdom "is himself also the eighth", in actuality, the Bible says that the eighth kingdom "is of the seven".  IOW, the eighth kingdom seems to have been one of the previous seven which was somehow "revived" or "healed of its deadly wound".  Even if Shoebat is correct in his identification of the seven kingdoms or empires that he listed...

 

1. Egypt

2. Assyria

3. Babylon

4. Medo-Persia

5. Greece

6. Rome

7. Turkey (Ottoman Empire)

 

...then this still does not mean that the eighth kingdom or empire is the seventh kingdom or the Muslim kingdom or empire.  Again, Revelation 17:11 says that the eighth "is of the seven", but it doesn't specify which one of the seven that it actually is...at least not in that particular verse.

 

Shoebat makes another (at least) fatal flaw later on in his video and I'll document that one much more thoroughly as time permits me to.  In the meantime, let's take heed to exactly what is being said, lest we be led astray.

Edited November 5, 2013 by Ih8s8n

[Ih8s8n]

If you listen to Shoebat from the 32:01 point of the video through to the 32:34 point of the video, then you will hear how Shoebat claims that "Mystery, Babylon" of Revelation chapter 17 (and elsewhere) is the same "Babylon" which is "fallen" in Isaiah chapter 21, but this simply is not the case.  In fact, if you go to Shoebat's website, then he claims that "Mystery, Babylon" is MECCA, but the Bible teaches something completely different.  First, here is a link to Shoebat's website and his claim that "Mystery, Babylon" is MECCA:

 

http://shoebat.com/2013/05/31/mystery-babylon-is-mecca-not-vatican/

 

In his article, "Mystery Babylon is Mecca, NOT Vatican", Shoebat refutes the belief that "Mystery, Babylon" is the Vatican and insists, instead, that it is Mecca, but, in reality, "Mystery, Babylon" is neither Mecca nor the Vatican.  In fact, and it is Biblical fact, there is only one place upon the face of the earth which can possibly be "Mystery, Babylon" and that one place is JERUSALEM.  There are multiple ways to prove the same, from scripture, and I will now begin to provide solid Biblical evidence for the same:

 

Revelation 17:6

 

"And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration."

If you continue reading on to chapter 18 of the book of Revelation, then this "woman", MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH, and her insatiable taste for blood is a little bit further described. Yes, we read:
 

Revelation 18:24

 

"And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth."

Whoever this "woman" is, God holds her accountable not only for "the blood of the saints", "the blood of the martyrs of Jesus" and "the blood of prophets", but also for "the blood...of all that were slain upon the earth". If we're to believe scripture and to let the Bible interpret itself, then, again, there is only one city upon the face of the earth who all of this could possibly be referring to and that city is Jerusalem. We read:

 

Luke 13:33

"Nevertheless I must walk to-day and to-morrow, and the day following: for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem."

Those are the recorded words of our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ, and He said that "it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem". IT CANNOT BE. Therefore, when we read of how "in her was found the blood of prophets" (Rev. 18:24), this "her" must be Jerusalem.

 

Acts 7:51-52

"Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye. Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:"

Again, it was the Jews of Jerusalem who not only persecuted the prophets, but who also slew them. As such, when we read of how "in her was found the blood of the prophets" (Rev. 18:24), this "her" can only be referring to Jerusalem.
 

I Thessalonians 2:14-16

 

"For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews: Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men: Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sin always: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost."

Same scenario. Yes, once more, it is the Jews of Judaea or those of Jerusalem who have "both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets". Once more, when you read of how "in her was found the blood of the prophets" (Rev. 18:24), this "her" can only be referring to Jerusalem.

Remember, now, that whoever this "woman" is, she was also held accountable by God for "the blood...of all that were slain upon the earth" (Rev. 18:24). Wow! I wouldn't want such an accusation leveled against me, would you? Well, again, there's only one city upon the face of the earth who is worthy of this charge and I'll let Jesus Christ tell you exactly which city that is:

 

Matthew 23:34-39

"Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city: That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar. Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation. O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord."

Again, those were the words of our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ, and He said that upon Jerusalem would "come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar". Yes, Jesus Christ cried, "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets" and, again, "in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth" (Rev. 18:24) and this "her" or this "woman" is Jerusalem and Jerusalem alone.

Well, that's just an introduction. As I said, there are multiple ways to prove that "the woman" or "MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH" is Jerusalem and this is but one of them.

 

Edited November 5, 2013 by Ih8s8n

[Ih8s8n]

Revelation 17:1-6

 

"And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters: With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.  So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.  And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication: And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.  And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration."

 

Somebody once said (I'm paraphrasing) that to attempt to understand the New Testament without having a foundational understanding of the Old Testament first is like trying to build a roof on a house without first building the house to support it. IOW, when we come to the book of Revelation (or any part of the New Testament, for that matter), that is not the place to begin our quest for truth, especially since there are multiple references to the Old Testament found throughout this New Testament book. These New Testament references as to how this "woman" is "arrayed" have deep significance, IF one understands what was written in the Old Testament and especially in reference to the high priest and how he was "arrayed". We read:

 

Exodus 28:1-8

"And take thou unto thee Aaron thy brother, and his sons with him, from among the children of Israel, that he may minister unto me in the priest's office, even Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, Eleazar and Ithamar, Aaron's sons. And thou shalt make holy garments for Aaron thy brother for glory and for beauty. And thou shalt speak unto all that are wise-hearted, whom I have filled with the spirit of wisdom, that they may make Aaron's garments to consecrate him, that he may minister unto me in the priest's office. And these are the garments which they shall make; a breastplate, and an ephod, and a robe, and a broidered coat, a mitre, and a girdle: and they shall make holy garments for Aaron thy brother, and his sons, that he may minister unto me in the priest's office. And they shall take gold, and blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine linen. And they shall make the ephod of gold, of blue, and of purple, of scarlet, and fine twined linen, with cunning work. It shall have the two shoulder-pieces thereof joined at the two edges thereof; and so it shall be joined together. And the curious girdle of the ephod, which is upon it, shall be of the same, according to the work thereof; even of gold, of blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine twined linen."

I'll stop here for now and then come back to the Old Testament description of the high priest's garments in a minute. The high priest's garments contained the following:

gold
blue
purple
scarlet
fine twined linen

Now, compare how the high priest was "arrayed" to how this "woman" was "arrayed" in the book of Revelation:

 

Revelation 17:4

 

"And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls..."

Okay.

Both the high priest and "the woman" share the following:

gold
purple
scarlet

Right now, it seems as if this "woman" is missing both "the blue" and "the linen", but "the linen" can be found in a further description of this "woman" in the next chapter of Revelation, where we read:

 

Revelation 18:15-16

 

"The merchants of these things, which were made rich by her, shall stand afar off for the fear of her torment, weeping and wailing, And saying, Alas, alas, that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls!"

Well, there's the "fine linen", but we're still missing "the blue"...and for good reason. Allow me to explain. In the Old Testament, there were many "types" given. IOW, certain things were "types" or "representations" of other things and the colors which we're presently examining were certainly numbered among such "types". In reference to the significance of "the blue" in scripture, we read:
 

Numbers 15:37-40

 

"And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Speak unto the children of Israel, and bid them that they make them fringes in the borders of their garments throughout their generations, and that they put upon the fringe of the borders a ribband of blue: And it shall be unto you for a fringe, that ye may look upon it, and remember all the commandments of the LORD, and do them; and that ye seek not after your own heart and your own eyes, after which ye use to go a-whoring: That ye may remember, and do all my commandments, and be holy unto your God."

Through Moses, God instructed the children of Israel to put "a ribband of blue" or a twisted thread of blue upon the fringe of the border of their garments and this "ribband of blue" was to be a reminder unto them to "remember all the commandments of the LORD and do them" so that they would not "go a-whoring" after other gods. With such in mind, it is extremely significant that the only color which is missing from the "array" of this "woman" in Revelation is "blue". IOW, now matter how "religiously arrayed" this "woman" is, her distinguishing feature is that she doesn't "keep the commandments of God" (which is exactly what the missing "blue" represents) and has therefore "gone a-whoring" (She is, after all, "THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS"). Here's where it gets really interesting. This same exact "woman" is also described in Revelation chapter 12 and, more interestingly, this "woman" has "a remnant" which is also described. Yes, we read:

 

Revelation 12:17

 

"And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ."

Did you catch that? Even though most of those who comprise "the woman" have no "blue" in their "array" or attire in that they don't "keep the commandments of God", "the remnant" of this "woman" or the Jews who will be saved in the last days do have "blue" in their "array" or attire in that they "keep the commandments of God". Again, it is this "keeping of the commandments of God" which distinguishes "the remnant" from "THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS".

Furthermore, this "woman" of Revelation chapter 17 is also contrasted with the Old Testament high priest in another manner. Yes, we read:

 

Revelation 17:5

 

"And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH."

In stark contrast to what this "woman" has written upon her forehead, the Old Testament high priest bore the following inscription upon his own forehead:

 

Exodus 28:36-38

"And thou shalt make a plate of pure gold, and grave upon it, like the engravings of a signet, HOLINESS UNTO THE LORD. And thou shalt put it on a blue lace, that it may be upon the mitre; upon the forefront of the mitre it shall be. And it shall be upon Aaron's forehead, that Aaron may bear the iniquity of the holy things, which the children of Israel shall hallow in all their holy gifts; and it shall be always upon his forehead, that they may be accepted before the LORD."

Whereas the high priest bore the inscription of "HOLINESS UNTO THE LORD" which was fastened to his mitre by "a blue lace" (another reference to keeping the commandments of God) and worn "always upon his forehead", this "woman" from Revelation chapter 17 bears the following inscription upon her forehead:
 

Revelation 17:5

 

"And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH."

Anyhow, THIS is what is actually being described here and, once again, it all points back to Jerusalem. There are many more indicators and descriptions throughout the book of Revelation which all point directly to Jerusalem as well, so I've by no means covered all of them. In fact, I've just barely scratched the surface so far.

I hope that this helps everyone here in their quests for Biblical truth.

Edited November 6, 2013 by Ih8s8n

[OakWood]

Revelation 17:1-6

 

"And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters: With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.  So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.  And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication: And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.  And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration."

 

Somebody once said (I'm paraphrasing) that to attempt to understand the New Testament without having a foundational understanding of the Old Testament first is like trying to build a roof on a house without first building the house to support it. IOW, when we come to the book of Revelation (or any part of the New Testament, for that matter), that is not the place to begin our quest for truth, especially since there are multiple references to the Old Testament found throughout this New Testament book. These New Testament references as to how this "woman" is "arrayed" have deep significance, IF one understands what was written in the Old Testament and especially in reference to the high priest and how he was "arrayed". We read:

 

Exodus 28:1-8

"And take thou unto thee Aaron thy brother, and his sons with him, from among the children of Israel, that he may minister unto me in the priest's office, even Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, Eleazar and Ithamar, Aaron's sons. And thou shalt make holy garments for Aaron thy brother for glory and for beauty. And thou shalt speak unto all that are wise-hearted, whom I have filled with the spirit of wisdom, that they may make Aaron's garments to consecrate him, that he may minister unto me in the priest's office. And these are the garments which they shall make; a breastplate, and an ephod, and a robe, and a broidered coat, a mitre, and a girdle: and they shall make holy garments for Aaron thy brother, and his sons, that he may minister unto me in the priest's office. And they shall take gold, and blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine linen. And they shall make the ephod of gold, of blue, and of purple, of scarlet, and fine twined linen, with cunning work. It shall have the two shoulder-pieces thereof joined at the two edges thereof; and so it shall be joined together. And the curious girdle of the ephod, which is upon it, shall be of the same, according to the work thereof; even of gold, of blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine twined linen."

I'll stop here for now and then come back to the Old Testament description of the high priest's garments in a minute. The high priest's garments contained the following:

gold

blue

purple

scarlet

fine twined linen

Now, compare how the high priest was "arrayed" to how this "woman" was "arrayed" in the book of Revelation:

 

Revelation 17:4

 

"And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls..."

Okay.

Both the high priest and "the woman" share the following:

gold

purple

scarlet

Right now, it seems as if this "woman" is missing both "the blue" and "the linen", but "the linen" can be found in a further description of this "woman" in the next chapter of Revelation, where we read:

 

Revelation 18:15-16

 

"The merchants of these things, which were made rich by her, shall stand afar off for the fear of her torment, weeping and wailing, And saying, Alas, alas, that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls!"

Well, there's the "fine linen", but we're still missing "the blue"...and for good reason. Allow me to explain. In the Old Testament, there were many "types" given. IOW, certain things were "types" or "representations" of other things and the colors which we're presently examining were certainly numbered among such "types". In reference to the significance of "the blue" in scripture, we read:

 

Numbers 15:37-40

 

"And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Speak unto the children of Israel, and bid them that they make them fringes in the borders of their garments throughout their generations, and that they put upon the fringe of the borders a ribband of blue: And it shall be unto you for a fringe, that ye may look upon it, and remember all the commandments of the LORD, and do them; and that ye seek not after your own heart and your own eyes, after which ye use to go a-whoring: That ye may remember, and do all my commandments, and be holy unto your God."

Through Moses, God instructed the children of Israel to put "a ribband of blue" or a twisted thread of blue upon the fringe of the border of their garments and this "ribband of blue" was to be a reminder unto them to "remember all the commandments of the LORD and do them" so that they would not "go a-whoring" after other gods. With such in mind, it is extremely significant that the only color which is missing from the "array" of this "woman" in Revelation is "blue". IOW, now matter how "religiously arrayed" this "woman" is, her distinguishing feature is that she doesn't "keep the commandments of God" (which is exactly what the missing "blue" represents) and has therefore "gone a-whoring" (She is, after all, "THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS"). Here's where it gets really interesting. This same exact "woman" is also described in Revelation chapter 12 and, more interestingly, this "woman" has "a remnant" which is also described. Yes, we read:

 

Revelation 12:17

 

"And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ."

Did you catch that? Even though most of those who comprise "the woman" have no "blue" in their "array" or attire in that they don't "keep the commandments of God", "the remnant" of this "woman" or the Jews who will be saved in the last days do have "blue" in their "array" or attire in that they "keep the commandments of God". Again, it is this "keeping of the commandments of God" which distinguishes "the remnant" from "THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS".

Furthermore, this "woman" of Revelation chapter 17 is also contrasted with the Old Testament high priest in another manner. Yes, we read:

 

Revelation 17:5

 

"And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH."

In stark contrast to what this "woman" has written upon her forehead, the Old Testament high priest bore the following inscription upon his own forehead:

 

Exodus 28:36-38

"And thou shalt make a plate of pure gold, and grave upon it, like the engravings of a signet, HOLINESS UNTO THE LORD. And thou shalt put it on a blue lace, that it may be upon the mitre; upon the forefront of the mitre it shall be. And it shall be upon Aaron's forehead, that Aaron may bear the iniquity of the holy things, which the children of Israel shall hallow in all their holy gifts; and it shall be always upon his forehead, that they may be accepted before the LORD."

Whereas the high priest bore the inscription of "HOLINESS UNTO THE LORD" which was fastened to his mitre by "a blue lace" (another reference to keeping the commandments of God) and worn "always upon his forehead", this "woman" from Revelation chapter 17 bears the following inscription upon her forehead:

 

Revelation 17:5

 

"And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH."

Anyhow, THIS is what is actually being described here and, once again, it all points back to Jerusalem. There are many more indicators and descriptions throughout the book of Revelation which all point directly to Jerusalem as well, so I've by no means covered all of them. In fact, I've just barely scratched the surface so far.

I hope that this helps everyone here in their quests for Biblical truth.

 

Interesting perspective there. I never had time to check Shoebat's references and I haven't time to check all yours yet, but I will when I get the time.

[Ih8s8n]

Interesting perspective there. I never had time to check Shoebat's references and I haven't time to check all yours yet, but I will when I get the time.

I have much more to add in order to prove, beyond any shadow of a doubt, that "Mystery, Babylon" cannot possibly be any place other than Jerusalem, but I simply don't have the time to do so now.  Lord willing, however, I will add to this thread at a later time.

[kingdomwitness]

For me, the 7th empire is American/British world powers. The wounded head is Rome and its rebirth is the E.U. If you are not in agreement with me, try googling it on google or any other search engines. The bible says that the beast that was and is not he himself is the eighth. The beast that was and is not is perhaps Rome and coming as the 8th takes its form as the E.U. Concerning the part that says he is of the seven, all former empires were reborn in the Roman empire which possessed the ruling capacity of former empires. The E.U is the revived Roman empire thus the 8th beast. America/Britain is the 7th and Britain is in Europe and may be part of the E.U which may even confirm that the E.U is of the seven empires. Pls this has not been proven. It's my own theology. Pls i also need your opinions.