The Day of the Lord, will the church be raptured?

[Montana Marv]

My words in BLUE -

 

Salty

 

Rev 7:9 - These are not Believers.  They are ones who did not take the mark of the beast, yet made it through to the end of the Trib.  These are to repopulate the earth so it becomes like the sand of the sea, when Satan deceives them again.  Rev 20: 7-9.

 

 

Now that's one of the wildest suppositions I've ever heard! Clearly I've wasted my time answering your posts, because you obviously have a lot of Bible study that needs doing.

Salty

 

I put my left shoe on last like the rest of you.

 

I have a grasp on the total set of events. (S, T and B judgments).  45 plus years of Bible Study, maybe the last 25 heavier to eschatology.  I am well versed in this subject.  I just don't believe as you believe as you believe.  Our premises are different, therefore our view of Scripture is different pertaining to the end times.  What I believe is Literal, you will say it is Symbolic.  When Scripture says "the rest of mankind", I take this as Literal.  When Scripture says 1/4, I believe 1/4, when 1/3, I believe 1/3.  When 1/3 of mankind, I believe 1/3 of mankind; the rest of mankind being the 2/3's who remain.  Your premise does not fall into what I believe Scripture says.

 

If you are so well versed in end times events; Where are the (locations) of these  "1/3's of's" listed in the the Trumpet judgments located.  They must be some place.  1/3 - Where?  Give it a try.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Salty]

Salty

 

I put my left shoe on last like the rest of you.

 

I have a grasp on the total set of events. (S, T and B judgments).  45 plus years of Bible Study, maybe the last 25 heavier to eschatology.  I am well versed in this subject.  I just don't believe as you believe as you believe.  Our premises are different, therefore our view of Scripture is different pertaining to the end times.  What I believe is Literal, you will say it is Symbolic.  When Scripture says "the rest of mankind", I take this as Literal.  When Scripture says 1/4, I believe 1/4, when 1/3, I believe 1/3.  When 1/3 of mankind, I believe 1/3 of mankind; the rest of mankind being the 2/3's who remain.  Your premise does not fall into what I believe Scripture says.

 

If you are so well versed in end times events; Where are the (locations) of these  "1/3's of's" listed in the the Trumpet judgments located.  They must be some place.  1/3 - Where?  Give it a try.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

 

Now don't overload yourself with meaningless statements. It doesn't matter how many years of Bible study you've done, nor how old you are.

 

God's Word is both Literal and Symbolic. The key is to know when He is speaking in the literal sense vs. the symbolic sense. Even the symbols He uses always point to something literal. That's to make His Word easier for us to understand, not more difficult like some men make it.

 

So... the difference between your premise, and my premise, on Rev.9, is that you haven't understood many of its metaphorical parts, which makes up quite a bit of that Rev.9 chapter. You're definitely not alone in that though, for many have yet to grasp those metaphors.

 

If you approached all those years of Bible study of the OT prophets like it's supposed to all be dead history, then I can understand the difficulty you'd have in understanding a lot of those Rev.9 metaphors. You should immediately realize that there are no such thing as locusts that have the faces of men, teeth of lions, etc., not in God's creation. Those are symbols, God first gave them back in the OT prophets. And the Book of Joel is key for understanding that Rev.9 chapter. When's the last time you went through the Book of Joel line upon line? Why not try it and then go through that Rev.9 chapter again?

 

Another key about Rev.9. It's very important to note the trumpet-woe period associations given starting back at the end of Rev.8, into Rev.9, and all the way to the 7th trumpet-3rd woe of Rev.11. All those events are being given in order how they will occur.

 

When men's doctrines say Rev.9 is about all-out-war, shuck it off, for it's not. When men say it's about flesh death, shuck it off, it's not. Starting at the 6th trumpet-2nd woe is the beginning of the "great tribulation" timing. That's where a thorough understanding of our Lord Jesus' Olivet Discourse is important, because the tribulation is not about all-out-war, not about rampant killing. It's about the time of "Peace and safety" the deceived will saying, per Paul in 1 Thess.5 (he was pulling from the OT prophets, like Daniel).

 

As a matter of fact, how the tribulation will happen is almost completely opposite of how most Churches are teaching about it today.

Edited July 3, 2014 by Salty

[Montana Marv]

One of the "Day of the Lord's", pertaining to the Rapture will happen when one is least expecting it.

 

Salty I will take this date from you (when you least expect it) - Pre-Trib.  For if this is when you least expect the Rapture, I will vote for that date.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Salty]

One of the "Day of the Lord's", pertaining to the Rapture will happen when one is least expecting it.

 

Salty I will take this date from you (when you least expect it) - Pre-Trib.  For if this is when you least expect the Rapture, I will vote for that date.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

Not sure what you mean, because I did not set a date for Christ's coming.

 

The Day of The LORD is about events that happen on the very last day of this present world. It is the day of our Lord Jesus' second coming per Apostles Paul and Peter (1 Thess.5; 2 Pet.3:10). It is the day Christ will gather His Church per Apostle Paul (2 Thess.2:2 "day of Christ"). Still no one knows exactly what date that will be. We can only know it's closer by watching the signs our Lord Jesus gave us to watch.

 

You can find many of those events first mentioned in the OT Books of the prophets.

[Marilyn C]

`But you brethren, are not in darkness that the day should overtake you like a thief: for you are all the sons of light....`  (1 Thess. 5: 4 & 5)

[Salty]

`But you brethren, are not in darkness that the day should overtake you like a thief: for you are all the sons of light....`  (1 Thess. 5: 4 & 5)

 

Exactly, that's what Apostle Paul's Message was with that verse, that our Lord Jesus' second coming is NOT supposed to take His servants by surprise. That's why He and His Apostles gave us the signs of the end to be watching leading up to His coming. His coming "as a thief in the night" is specifically for those who do NOT watch like He commanded us, and/or for those who follow something else.

Edited July 5, 2014 by Salty

[Marilyn C]

Also -

 

`For Jacob my servant`s sake, & Israel my ELECT,....` (Isa. 45: 4)  Israel.

 

`Therefore, as the ELECT of God, holy & beloved,...` (Col: 3: 12)  The Body of Christ. 

 

`Concerning the gospel they (Israel) are enemies for your sake, but concerning the ELECTION they are beloved for the sake of the fathers.

For the gifts & calling (ELECTION) of God are irrevocable.`   (Rom. 11: 28 & 29)

 

 

We need to be careful to take note of whom God is speaking & not assume `it is all about us/me.`  God has `irrevocable` purposes for the Body of Christ & for Israel & for the Nations.

[Salty]

So, what? Does that mean we don't know Apostle Paul was speaking to believers on Christ Jesus there in 1 Thess.5???

[Marilyn C]

Hi Salty,

 

You seem to have a short memory regarding what you said about the ELECT.  You said on post #66

 

`I`ll stop there, because if I kept going I`d have to practically quote about 1/4 of God`s word on how Christ`s ELECT means His church....`

 

Montana Marv & I showed you from scripture how Israel is also God`s ELECT. I think you need to apologise & brush up on your study.

[Salty]

Hi Salty,

 

You seem to have a short memory regarding what you said about the ELECT.  You said on post #66

 

`I`ll stop there, because if I kept going I`d have to practically quote about 1/4 of God`s word on how Christ`s ELECT means His church....`

 

Montana Marv & I showed you from scripture how Israel is also God`s ELECT. I think you need to apologise & brush up on your study.

 

It appears to be the opposite case of what you say.

 

My response to him was how he was wrongly treating the "very elect" of Matt.24:24 as NOT applying to His Church. I well know that God's Israel is His elect, and also that Christ's Church are His elect, but I don't differentiate between ANY believer on Christ's Jesus that makes up part of His many-membered Body. Those upon the Mount of Olives with Him were part of His Church; that's who He was speaking those things to.

 

But the Pre-trib Rapture school does differentiate between the elect of Israel and the elect of Christ's Church, which is why they wrongly teach those signs Jesus gave upon the Mount of Olives only apply to Israel, and not... to Christ's Church (so they can disregard those verses there about the tribulation and His coming to gather them AFTER that tribulation).

 

So I think it's YOU that needs to make an apology for twisting my words around to say something I am not.