Tithing, Giving, and the Believer

[GoldenEagle]

John, your war on legalism and the persistence you have is amazing brother.

 

A person works and makes $10 in a week raking leaves while another runs a company and collects $5000 for his due.  There are those who would take the young man and chastise him if he did not put a dollar in the basket that would praise the CEO for his paltry $500 contribution as if he has done some wonderful work.  

 

Let us cut to the chase, the problem that underlies the whole argument is whether or not I want to part with my precious treasure or squeeze out as much as I can from every single unit of my God given time and talents that I convert to some form of currency.

 

Lol @ "war on legalism" comment. I'd rather think of it as pointing people to freedom, abundant life, love, and grace only found in Jesus Christ.

I would personally say that someone who makes $10 in a week wouldn't necessarily have to give $1 to his/her local church. Would they want to give back a portion back to God? I think that would be natural to the born again Believer in Christ. Should a Believer who made $10 in a week be condemned by fellow Believers if he/she doesn't give the $1... Nope. I believe Scripture would say that God wants us to give cheerfully and not grudgingly.

2 Cor. 9:7 (2 Cor. 9 for chapter context)

⁷ So let each one give as he purposes in his heart, not grudgingly or of necessity; for God loves a cheerful giver.

Personally, I think the problem with the argument is a matter of the heart. Giving is a spiritual exercise IMO. Want to know where people's priorities are? Check their checking account or credit card accounts.

Just my 2 cents brother.

God bless,

Jon/GE

[GoldenEagle]

there is a very lengthy treatment of this at http://omegazine.com/biblestudy/tithe_1.html , way too much to post here for any interested - basically every verse on the topic

I started reading it... Very interesting for sure. Anything in particular you'd like to discuss in it brother?

God bless,

GE

[Fez]

I think it is totally a heart thing, and does not have too much to do with the amount.

 

I personally think one should give as much as one can without putting oneself into debt.

[GoldenEagle]

My point is, the act of "tithing" is an ongoing principal of the Christian life in that we are commanded to give as Christ gave (of course, I don't recall that he ever gave money to a building, only His life in service to the world.) The OT tithe was money. The NT tithe is more than just monetary.

I would agree with you in principle in bold. Meaning that I believe God wants so much more than just 10% of our income. He wants 100% of our lives. Giving back to the Lord through gifts to the local church or to charity should be a constant part of our lives.

Is this what you mean?

[kwikphilly]

Blessings Golden Eagle,

     I agree wholeheartedly that it is a matter of the heart,that is what it is all about......whenever a "tithing"discussion comes up I always think of the widow & her giving but 2 mites(but this was EVERYTHING that she had).....Jesus watched as everyone went up to give their tithes & offerings and was so moved by the widow because He saw her heart,yes God is not moved by obligation but so much more...love,gratitude,trust,faithfulness,honoring Him and obedience

    Everything we have or acquire comes from the Lord,it all belongs to Him........What good gifts He gives to us!

                                                                                                                                                            With love,in Christ-Kwik

[Mike Mclees]

There is not mentioned as to how much one gives in the knew Testament. Niether should there be a law put on it. This is wrong perception using old testament standards.

I am going to try to make this short. I have been through the good times and the bad times or as we like to say down on our luck. God has always provided for me as he does with all of us. He will never leave or us or forsake us. So many examples of this is through our scripture. A man should give what he is able, but if he can not give he still with can have faith. What I am about to say may not be sin, and I am not going against ones convictions.

My grievance is our classing out the poor. Intimidation and preaching one must give this much or that. You say we don't do that. But we do when we teach old testament standards, and then pass the plate. Ask why so many organized traditional churches have no poor or homeless in our church but they cater to the working class families Who are taught what I have already said. You say we don't have church in the lower class areas. Many Chruches have been started in poor sections of town using storefronts.

Here is a question. Whos church prospers faster and attacks more well to do people.

If a preacher is gifted and speaks well or charismatic do they not attacked more and get bigger offerings. As long as I can remember churches started out humble and sincerely loved the poor and better off alike. Yet now something happens. They form a board. Their store front is no longer big enough for them. They start looking for property to build a better church in a nicer part of town. It has great religious architecture and soon they have to make it even bigger. We call this success. It's the American way

Now we see even a better class of successful people who drive fine cars and give bigger offerings. What is missing here now. Yes its the poor not so clean clothes ones from the store front church Maybe they don't smell of fine perfume. I have worked with the  poor and homeless so I know what I'm talking about.  

Now they are on TV and need even more offerings from the rich. They offer cruises in the Caribbean with all the big name speakers to tickle your nose. Can you see the big picture 

 

 

 

Edited July 6, 2018 by Mike Mclees

[Rockson]

I don't believe we're under a 10% obligation to give tithes.  I do find interesting that if you go back a generation there wasn't as many who didn't believe tithes weren't required. At least by my experience having been saved in the late 70's. I believe the internet has changed that. People are talking to people like never before discussing things comparing scripture with scripture and getting proper context. Not downing churches BUT I do think the clergy even unknown to them really believe in tithing because of the enormous pressure they're under to pay the bills . Such doesn't mean they're necessarily  evil...but just under pressure. I'd love to imagine institution church things like paying for buildings didn't exist. What if much preaching and sharing could be done in people's homes or on hill sides (like the Sermon on the Mount) or on lake shores with beautiful scenery to boot. Seems to me Jesus did some of his best preaching standing on a small boat with the people on the shore. Imagine the freedom of taking up an offering and knowing it could go directly to helping the poor, or yes even to bless the minister with a reasonable  honorarium. You know I think most modern day Pastors would love it. They'd be able to do what their hearts cried out to want to do in the first place. Just preach the gospel and get people saved not be so caught up and worried how they're going to maintain whatever are their  buildings. You could probably buy a lot of tracts, books, DVDs and the like to give out in witnessing instead of paying something like 15K to have a new roof put on.

[Rockson]

Just now, Rockson said:

I don't believe we're under a 10% obligation to give tithes.  I do find interesting that if you go back a generation there wasn't as many who didn't believe tithes weren't required. At least by my experience having been saved in the late 70's. I believe the internet has changed that. People are talking to people like never before discussing things comparing scripture with scripture and getting proper context. Not downing churches BUT I do think the clergy even unknown to them really believe in tithing because of the enormous pressure they're under to pay the bills . Such doesn't mean they're necessarily  evil...but just under pressure. I'd love to imagine institution church things like paying for buildings didn't exist. What if much preaching and sharing could be done in people's homes or on hill sides (like the Sermon on the Mount) or on lake shores with beautiful scenery to boot. Seems to me Jesus did some of his best preaching standing on a small boat with the people on the shore. Imagine the freedom of taking up an offering and knowing it could go directly to helping the poor, or yes even to bless the minister with a reasonable  honorarium. You know I think most modern day Pastors would love it. They'd be able to do what their hearts cried out to want to do in the first place.

 

[Guest shiloh357]

15 hours ago, Rockson said:

I don't believe we're under a 10% obligation to give tithes.  I do find interesting that if you go back a generation there wasn't as many who didn't believe tithes weren't required.

It's not that they believed that tithing was "required" but they simply believed in tithing and for good reason.  Those older generations who tithed underwrote  all kinds of ministries and missionaries.  A lot of ministries were made possible because people tithed.   And those buildings that every acts like they despise because apparently that is what is in vogue, were and are used to provide ministry training, outreaches to the poor, house food banks and clothing banks. 

It was because people tithed that churches were able to have benevolence funds to help the poor.    Younger generations, generally speaking, don't tithe.  They don't give at all.   The older generations who still tithe provide 90% of the finances that keep a lot churches and community outreaches in those churches up and running.

If a person won't tithe, they generally are not all that generous when it comes to offerings in other areas, either.

 

[enoob57]

The underlayment of it all is

Luke 12:32-34

32 Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom.

33 Sell that ye have, and give alms; provide yourselves bags which wax not old, a treasure in the heavens that faileth not, where no thief approacheth, neither moth corrupteth.

34 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.
KJV

with the reality

1 John 2:15-17

15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.
KJV
 

The simple truth we are, if in Christ, no longer attached to the temporary but are investing in the eternal things of God Himself....