Ezra Posted July 12, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 134 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 8,142 Content Per Day: 2.36 Reputation: 6,612 Days Won: 20 Joined: 11/02/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted July 12, 2015 Jesus is reigning over the Kings of the earth. That should state "Jesus shall reign (future tense) over the kings of the earth, and those kings who remain will be redemeed and under the authority of Christ. At present, God the Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ are allowing Satan to be the "god of this world", since a time will come in the very near future when Satan will be given complete authority over all the rulers and nations of the earth (Rev 13). Please note carefully how great will be the control of Satan for 42 months (3 1/2 years), and take specific note of verses 5,7, and 8: 4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him? 5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. 6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. 7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. 8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. In view of this, we cannot possibly postulate that Jesus is presently reigning over the kings of the earth. That would require that Satan and all his evil spirits and demons are presently confined to the Bottomless Pit, and that is really not true. It is one thing to be deceived by Satan. It is another thing to be self-deceived. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ezra Posted July 12, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 134 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 8,142 Content Per Day: 2.36 Reputation: 6,612 Days Won: 20 Joined: 11/02/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted July 12, 2015 My dear brother Joe, was the Apostle John then wrong when he said Jesus is reigning over the kings of the earth now? Rev 1:5 and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler over the kings of the earth. To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood, This verse is describing several attributes of Christ as well as His royal authority. Christ is indeed the Ruler (Gk archon) over the kings of the earth, but the actual dominion of Christ over the earth is yet future, and will begin at the start of the Millennium. First He must put His enemies "under His feet". And that will happen at His Second Coming. We need to clearly distinguish between the sovereignty of God from everlasting to everlasting, and the literal, actual, physical rule and reign of Christ over the earth and the universe, when He establishes the literal Kingdom of God on earth, with the kingdom of Israel fulfilling the Abrahamic Covenant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 Not only is Jesus still the King of the Jews, but Jesus is still Jew of the Tribe of Judah! (Rev. 22:16) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FresnoJoe Posted July 12, 2015 Group: Graduated to Heaven Followers: 208 Topic Count: 60 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,651 Content Per Day: 1.17 Reputation: 5,761 Days Won: 4 Joined: 01/31/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/04/1943 Share Posted July 12, 2015 Not only is Jesus still the King of the Jews, but Jesus is still Jew of the Tribe of Judah! (Rev. 22:16) Amen~! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FresnoJoe Posted July 12, 2015 Group: Graduated to Heaven Followers: 208 Topic Count: 60 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,651 Content Per Day: 1.17 Reputation: 5,761 Days Won: 4 Joined: 01/31/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/04/1943 Share Posted July 12, 2015 My dear brother Joe, was the Apostle John then wrong when he said Jesus is reigning over the kings of the earth now? Revelation 1:5 and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler over the kings of the earth. To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood, ~ Beloved Jesus Gave Us HIS Revelation Thought Brother John The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw. Revelation 1:1-2 And He Will Rule From And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God. And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy. And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS. Revelation 19:9-16 Zion Town Sing, O daughter of Zion; shout, O Israel; be glad and rejoice with all the heart, O daughter of Jerusalem. The LORD hath taken away thy judgments, he hath cast out thine enemy: the king of Israel, even the LORD, is in the midst of thee: thou shalt not see evil any more. In that day it shall be said to Jerusalem, Fear thou not: and to Zion, Let not thine hands be slack. The LORD thy God in the midst of thee is mighty; he will save, he will rejoice over thee with joy; he will rest in his love, he will joy over thee with singing. Zephaniah 3:14-17 Believe It Or Not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted July 18, 2015 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 0 Topic Count: 904 Topics Per Day: 0.19 Content Count: 9,642 Content Per Day: 2.03 Reputation: 5,830 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/07/2011 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 18, 2015 Not only is Jesus still the King of the Jews, but Jesus is still Jew of the Tribe of Judah! (Rev. 22:16) Precisely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted July 18, 2015 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 0 Topic Count: 904 Topics Per Day: 0.19 Content Count: 9,642 Content Per Day: 2.03 Reputation: 5,830 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/07/2011 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 18, 2015 Galatians 6:13-16 (NASB95) 13 For those who are circumcised do not even keep the Law themselves, but they desire to have you circumcised so that they may boast in your flesh. 14 But may it never be that I would boast, except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world. 15 For neither is circumcision anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation. 16 And those who will walk by this rule, peace and mercy be upon them, and upon the Israel of God. ? In verse 16, Paul is blessing the Gentiles who do not fall for the people preaching circumcision, and the Paul is blessing Jews, who have accepted Jesus and do not require Gentiles to be circumcized. The Israel of God are Jews who believe on Jesus. So, rather than accept Gentile believers in the Jewish Messiah are grafted into the olive tree (Romans 11:16-26), and that he who is our peace has broken down every wall of division between us (Ephesians 2:1-22) not to mention Galatians 3:28 which says there IS NO difference between Jew, Gentile, male, female, free, slave in Messiah... ...you are going to make this distinction here. You Gentiles of God are not counted in this instance here Galatians 6:16 who are the Israel of God. The Philadelphia Theological Debate Rebuttal: Yeah, right! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted July 18, 2015 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 0 Topic Count: 904 Topics Per Day: 0.19 Content Count: 9,642 Content Per Day: 2.03 Reputation: 5,830 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/07/2011 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 18, 2015 Jeremiah 31:31–34 (AV) 31Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: 32Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: 33But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. 34And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more. 1. the Prophet to the Nations omits Gentiles 2. the New Covenant (includes Gentiles) is not like the Old Covenant (excludes Gentiles) 3. distinguishes the Law of God from the Law of Moses ††† ††† 1 Corinthians 9:19–21 (NASB95) 19For though I am free from all men, I have made myself a slave to all, so that I may win more. 20To the Jews I became as a Jew, so that I might win Jews; to those who are under the Law, as under the Law though not being myself under the Law, so that I might win those who are under the Law; 21to those who are without law, as without law, though not being without the law of God but under the law of Christ, so that I might win those who are without law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thereselittleflower Posted July 18, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 58 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 5,457 Content Per Day: 1.70 Reputation: 4,220 Days Won: 37 Joined: 07/01/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted July 18, 2015 Jesus is reigning over the Kings of the earth. That should state "Jesus shall reign (future tense) over the kings of the earth, and those kings who remain will be redemeed and under the authority of Christ. At present, God the Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ are allowing Satan to be the "god of this world", since a time will come in the very near future when Satan will be given complete authority over all the rulers and nations of the earth (Rev 13). Please note carefully how great will be the control of Satan for 42 months (3 1/2 years), and take specific note of verses 5,7, and 8: 4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him? 5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. 6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. 7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. 8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. In view of this, we cannot possibly postulate that Jesus is presently reigning over the kings of the earth. That would require that Satan and all his evil spirits and demons are presently confined to the Bottomless Pit, and that is really not true. It is one thing to be deceived by Satan. It is another thing to be self-deceived. Ezra that is not what Revelation 1:5 says. It says Jesus is reigning over the kings of the earth right now. "Shall" does not need to refer to a future time period Shall also has the sense of what one must be doing,or even must have done. A parent trying to get their rebellious child to go to bed may say, for emphasis "You SHALL go to bed right this instant!" or "You shall clean your room right now", It is clear the parent is speaking of the present moment, right now. "Shall" does not have to refer to a future event. If "shall" must always be understood as referring to something in the future, which does a grave injustice to the various ways in which the word may be, and is, actually used other than to indicate a future event, then it must mean "shall humble himself" "He that shall humble himself shall be exalted" (Mt23:12). is something that is future to when Jesus said those words, and no one had ever in the history of the world humbled themselves before. That would be a nonsensical interpretation since those who have already died are not going to be humbling themselves in the future, they either already have done so or haven't. And so "shall" is not strictly referring to a future event, but the act of humbling oneself in regards to all people who have ever existed, even many thousands of years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thereselittleflower Posted July 18, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 58 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 5,457 Content Per Day: 1.70 Reputation: 4,220 Days Won: 37 Joined: 07/01/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted July 18, 2015 My dear brother Joe, was the Apostle John then wrong when he said Jesus is reigning over the kings of the earth now? Rev 1:5 and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler over the kings of the earth. To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood, This verse is describing several attributes of Christ as well as His royal authority. Christ is indeed the Ruler (Gk archon) over the kings of the earth, but the actual dominion of Christ over the earth is yet future, and will begin at the start of the Millennium. First He must put His enemies "under His feet". And that will happen at His Second Coming. We need to clearly distinguish between the sovereignty of God from everlasting to everlasting, and the literal, actual, physical rule and reign of Christ over the earth and the universe, when He establishes the literal Kingdom of God on earth, with the kingdom of Israel fulfilling the Abrahamic Covenant. I agree, John is speaking of several attributes of Christ that were true as of the time he wrote them and continue to be true to this day. However, I disagree there is a distinction between ruling and dominion. They are one and the same. do·min·ion dəˈminyən/ noun 1.sovereignty; control. sov·er·eign·ty ˈsäv(ə)rən(t)ē/ noun supreme power or authority. jurisdiction, rule, supremacy, dominion, power, ascendancy, suzerainty,hegemony, domination, authority, control, influence rule ro͞ol/ noun exercise ultimate power or authority over (an area and its people). govern, preside over, control, lead, dominate, run, head, administer,manage Synonym Discussion of DOMINION power, authority, jurisdiction, control, command, sway, dominion mean the right to govern or rule or determine. As you can see, they are all saying the same exact thing. There is no true distinction between dominate and rule. Dominate means to rule. To rule means to dominate. Dominion means the right to rule. Clearly, if Jesus is already ruling over the kings of the earth as John clearly states in Revelation 1:5, this means he has the right to rule, and thus, by definition, he also has dominion over the kings of the earth and their territories, right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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