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jerryR34

How do you debate a non-believer when the Bible says this:

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Someone cured of leprosy or some other skin disease in the OT has to go through this...How can we look at non-believers with a straight face and debate science considering this woo?  Help me make sense of this.  I've read the bible multiple times, and stuff like this really trips me up.  Was God made in our image? 

Leviticus 14

New International Version (NIV)

Cleansing From Defiling Skin Diseases

14 The Lord said to Moses, “These are the regulations for any diseased person at the time of their ceremonial cleansing, when they are brought to the priest: The priest is to go outside the camp and examine them. If they have been healed of their defiling skin disease,[a] the priest shall order that two live clean birds and some cedar wood, scarlet yarn and hyssop be brought for the person to be cleansed. Then the priest shall order that one of the birds be killed over fresh water in a clay pot. He is then to take the live bird and dip it, together with the cedar wood, the scarlet yarn and the hyssop, into the blood of the bird that was killed over the fresh water. Seven times he shall sprinkle the one to be cleansed of the defiling disease, and then pronounce them clean. After that, he is to release the live bird in the open fields.

“The person to be cleansed must wash their clothes, shave off all their hair and bathe with water; then they will be ceremonially clean. After this they may come into the camp, but they must stay outside their tent for seven days. On the seventh day they must shave off all their hair; they must shave their head, their beard, their eyebrows and the rest of their hair. They must wash their clothes and bathe themselves with water, and they will be clean.

10 “On the eighth day they must bring two male lambs and one ewe lamb a year old, each without defect, along with three-tenths of an ephah[b] of the finest flour mixed with olive oil for a grain offering, and one log[c] of oil. 11 The priest who pronounces them clean shall present both the one to be cleansed and their offerings before the Lord at the entrance to the tent of meeting.

12 “Then the priest is to take one of the male lambs and offer it as a guilt offering, along with the log of oil; he shall wave them before the Lord as a wave offering. 13 He is to slaughter the lamb in the sanctuary area where the sin offering[d] and the burnt offering are slaughtered. Like the sin offering, the guilt offering belongs to the priest; it is most holy. 14 The priest is to take some of the blood of the guilt offering and put it on the lobe of the right ear of the one to be cleansed, on the thumb of their right hand and on the big toe of their right foot. 15 The priest shall then take some of the log of oil, pour it in the palm of his own left hand, 16 dip his right forefinger into the oil in his palm, and with his finger sprinkle some of it before the Lord seven times. 17 The priest is to put some of the oil remaining in his palm on the lobe of the right ear of the one to be cleansed, on the thumb of their right hand and on the big toe of their right foot, on top of the blood of the guilt offering. 18 The rest of the oil in his palm the priest shall put on the head of the one to be cleansed and make atonement for them before the Lord.

19 “Then the priest is to sacrifice the sin offering and make atonement for the one to be cleansed from their uncleanness. After that, the priest shall slaughter the burnt offering 20 and offer it on the altar, together with the grain offering, and make atonement for them, and they will be clean.

21 “If, however, they are poor and cannot afford these, they must take one male lamb as a guilt offering to be waved to make atonement for them, together with a tenth of an ephah[e] of the finest flour mixed with olive oil for a grain offering, a log of oil, 22 and two doves or two young pigeons, such as they can afford, one for a sin offering and the other for a burnt offering.

23 “On the eighth day they must bring them for their cleansing to the priest at the entrance to the tent of meeting, before the Lord. 24 The priest is to take the lamb for the guilt offering, together with the log of oil, and wave them before the Lord as a wave offering. 25 He shall slaughter the lamb for the guilt offering and take some of its blood and put it on the lobe of the right ear of the one to be cleansed, on the thumb of their right hand and on the big toe of their right foot. 26 The priest is to pour some of the oil into the palm of his own left hand, 27 and with his right forefinger sprinkle some of the oil from his palm seven times before the Lord. 28 Some of the oil in his palm he is to put on the same places he put the blood of the guilt offering—on the lobe of the right ear of the one to be cleansed, on the thumb of their right hand and on the big toe of their right foot. 29 The rest of the oil in his palm the priest shall put on the head of the one to be cleansed, to make atonement for them before the Lord. 30 Then he shall sacrifice the doves or the young pigeons, such as the person can afford, 31 one as a sin offering and the other as a burnt offering, together with the grain offering. In this way the priest will make atonement before the Lord on behalf of the one to be cleansed.”

32 These are the regulations for anyone who has a defiling skin disease and who cannot afford the regular offerings for their cleansing.

 

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Can you kind of boil it down to where your main point of contention lies in the above passage?   That is too long of a passage to address completely on this kind of forum.  Just present the verses that present the biggest problem and state why they are problem for you and we can go from there.

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Can you kind of boil it down to where your main point of contention lies in the above passage?   That is too long of a passage to address completely on this kind of forum.  Just present the verses that present the biggest problem and state why they are problem for you and we can go from there.

thanks - I guess I have a problem with the ceremonial aspects of what I posted.  Is God supposed to be happy that we killed a bird under water or sprinkled water a specific number of times.  If you look at medicine throughout history, you can see where the bible led people astray and actually made medcine worse (look at bleeding for instance).  Do you really think that what is practiced in the chapters and verses above actually helped anyone...or actually appeased God or should appease God?

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Can you kind of boil it down to where your main point of contention lies in the above passage?   That is too long of a passage to address completely on this kind of forum.  Just present the verses that present the biggest problem and state why they are problem for you and we can go from there.

thanks - I guess I have a problem with the ceremonial aspects of what I posted.  Is God supposed to be happy that we killed a bird under water or sprinkled water a specific number of times.  If you look at medicine throughout history, you can see where the bible led people astray and actually made medcine worse (look at bleeding for instance).  Do you really think that what is practiced in the chapters and verses above actually helped anyone...or actually appeased God or should appease God?

 

 

The Bible actually presents a very sophisicated understanding of hygene practices that were not in use in the surrounding cultures.

 

Check out this PDF on how the Bible's prescription for hygene was far more advanced than the conventional beliefs of surrounding nations, and these biblical hygene passages listed in the chart agree with what we know in modern science about the spread of disease>>>>   http://www.counsellorpublishing.com/images/BiblicalAccuracy.pdf

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Can you kind of boil it down to where your main point of contention lies in the above passage?   That is too long of a passage to address completely on this kind of forum.  Just present the verses that present the biggest problem and state why they are problem for you and we can go from there.

thanks - I guess I have a problem with the ceremonial aspects of what I posted.  Is God supposed to be happy that we killed a bird under water or sprinkled water a specific number of times.  If you look at medicine throughout history, you can see where the bible led people astray and actually made medcine worse (look at bleeding for instance).  Do you really think that what is practiced in the chapters and verses above actually helped anyone...or actually appeased God or should appease God?

 

 

The Bible actually presents a very sophisicated understanding of hygene practices that were not in use in the surrounding cultures.

 

Check out this PDF on how the Bible's prescription for hygene was far more advanced than the conventional beliefs of surrounding nations, and these biblical hygene passages listed in the chart agree with what we know in modern science about the spread of disease>>>>   http://www.counsellorpublishing.com/images/BiblicalAccuracy.pdf

 

How does the passage I quoted relate to hygiene?  As I read it, it only deals with being ceremonially clean.  How would killing one bird and not two make you more hygienic?  With our current understanding of germ theory, how does waiting a prescribed number of days help? 

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Can you kind of boil it down to where your main point of contention lies in the above passage?   That is too long of a passage to address completely on this kind of forum.  Just present the verses that present the biggest problem and state why they are problem for you and we can go from there.

thanks - I guess I have a problem with the ceremonial aspects of what I posted.  Is God supposed to be happy that we killed a bird under water or sprinkled water a specific number of times.  If you look at medicine throughout history, you can see where the bible led people astray and actually made medcine worse (look at bleeding for instance).  Do you really think that what is practiced in the chapters and verses above actually helped anyone...or actually appeased God or should appease God?

 

 

The Bible actually presents a very sophisicated understanding of hygene practices that were not in use in the surrounding cultures.

 

Check out this PDF on how the Bible's prescription for hygene was far more advanced than the conventional beliefs of surrounding nations, and these biblical hygene passages listed in the chart agree with what we know in modern science about the spread of disease>>>>   http://www.counsellorpublishing.com/images/BiblicalAccuracy.pdf

 

The first link in your post Lev 17:11-14 was related to blood being "essential to life" and says:  " 

 

11 For the life of a creature is in the blood, and I have given it to you to make atonement for yourselves on the altar; it is the blood that makes atonement for one’s life.[c] 12 Therefore I say to the Israelites, “None of you may eat blood, nor may any foreigner residing among you eat blood.”

13 “‘Any Israelite or any foreigner residing among you who hunts any animal or bird that may be eaten must drain out the blood and cover it with earth, 14 because the life of every creature is its blood. That is why I have said to the Israelites, “You must not eat the blood of any creature, because the life of every creature is its blood; anyone who eats it must be cut off.”

 

I am not intending to be flippant, but should those who eat blood pudding be concerned? 

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I am not intending to be flippant, but should those who eat blood pudding be concerned? 

 

I dunno.   I mean, I don't know exactly how blood pudding is prepared or what it contains, but I don't think it is wise to eat it.  Some people will eat it.  I also would not advise eating blood tongue either.   I trust that God knows us an knows what's best for us.

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I am going to have to side with Shilio on this one, God knows better and eating blood like that is not good. 

 

Here also is a link to safety procedures for blood pudding....https://www.fsai.ie/faqs/black_pudding.html

 

 

If fresh blood is used it needs to be sourced from an approved premises where it has been harvested and stored hygienically. The risks need to be assessed and procedures implemented to control these risks. You will have to demonstrate to your inspector that what you are doing is safe and hygienic.

 

These sorts of procedures and the equipment to do it was not around when the OT was written, so it seems again God knew what He was doing.

Edited by LookingForAnswers
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Can you kind of boil it down to where your main point of contention lies in the above passage?   That is too long of a passage to address completely on this kind of forum.  Just present the verses that present the biggest problem and state why they are problem for you and we can go from there.

thanks - I guess I have a problem with the ceremonial aspects of what I posted.  Is God supposed to be happy that we killed a bird under water or sprinkled water a specific number of times.  If you look at medicine throughout history, you can see where the bible led people astray and actually made medcine worse (look at bleeding for instance).  Do you really think that what is practiced in the chapters and verses above actually helped anyone...or actually appeased God or should appease God?

 

 

If you are referring to the practice of bloodletting, where a doctor will let a patient bleed, that is not rooted in the bible at all. Nowhere is such a thing mentioned in the bible. The origins of that practice come from other cultures that followed false gods. It was practiced by ancient egyptians, ancient greeks and ancient hindus. 

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Can you kind of boil it down to where your main point of contention lies in the above passage?   That is too long of a passage to address completely on this kind of forum.  Just present the verses that present the biggest problem and state why they are problem for you and we can go from there.

thanks - I guess I have a problem with the ceremonial aspects of what I posted.  Is God supposed to be happy that we killed a bird under water or sprinkled water a specific number of times.  If you look at medicine throughout history, you can see where the bible led people astray and actually made medcine worse (look at bleeding for instance).  Do you really think that what is practiced in the chapters and verses above actually helped anyone...or actually appeased God or should appease God?

 

 

If you are referring to the practice of bloodletting, where a doctor will let a patient bleed, that is not rooted in the bible at all. Nowhere is such a thing mentioned in the bible. The origins of that practice come from other cultures that followed false gods. It was practiced by ancient egyptians, ancient greeks and ancient hindus. 

 

...And practiced by Christians up until modern times. It was thought to release the bad humors from the blood.

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