Is 'soul sleep' doctrinal?

[Remnantrob]

 

That's not what Jesus said.

 

John 20:17

Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

 

And soul sleep is biblical because the word sleep is in the bible....lol No but it's more logical in my opinion than everyone going to heaven.  Never been to a funeral where the preacher said the person was in hell even if it was a known sinner.

 

John 20:17 is simply talking about before ascending. Jesus has in fact ascended to his father in heaven, read Acts 1:9-12. Why would the preacher at a funeral tell people that person is in hell? Grief is the best weapon and the best time to lie to them. "Oh that person is with God" when in reality he's not, (he was never born again) but you can't tell grieving people that or you'll have glass and trash thrown at you. Even though it's obvious that person was an atheist, a mormon or a jehovah witness his whole life, lol. Please re-read post 10, and do not confuse soul from body. - DRS81

 

I'm sorry but acts 1:9-12 doesn't speak on the question posed by Izzel and your response to it.  The question was where did Jesus go when he died and you answered to heaven when John 20:17 says your answer is incorrect.  Now if you are saying Jesus meant his body had not ascended to heaven that's a different story, which i would still disagree with but that's just me.  Could you clarify the difference between soul and body according to the bible for me?  Thanks

[Guest DRS81]

I'm sorry but acts 1:9-12 doesn't speak on the question posed by Izzel and your response to it.  The question was where did Jesus go when he died and you answered to heaven when John 20:17 says your answer is incorrect.  Now if you are saying Jesus meant his body had not ascended to heaven that's a different story, which i would still disagree with but that's just me.  Could you clarify the difference between soul and body according to the bible for me?  Thanks

 

The title of Acts 1 is "Jesus Taken Up Into Heaven" http://www.biblestudytools.com/acts/1.html

 

The body AND soul of Jesus Christ has already ascended. Why his Body and Soul? Because Jesus isn't waiting for judgement. He lived a perfect life, thus his body also ascending. The body of us regular people is still in the graves awaiting judgment. Resurrection of Jesus is not the same as resurrection of us regular people, mainly because of judgment.

 

Jesus Christ - Body/Soul

1. body and soul already in heaven - no judgment

 

Humanity - Body/Soul

1. the believer's/nonbeliever's soul returns to heaven or hell immediatly after death

2. while the believer's/nonbeliever's body is resting in the grave awaiting judgment

 

There are two types of judgments, a 'particular judgment' (soul) and also a 'universal judgment' (body)..read post 27.

[Butch5]

Soul sleep- the idea that all those who die sleep until the time of Judgment, when we will be awakened and sent to our eternal destinations. These are copy and paste articles from carm.org and gotquestions.org, but I don't think I believe in this doctrine. 

 

“Soul sleep” is a belief that after a person dies, his/her soul “sleeps” until the resurrection and final judgment. The concept of “soul sleep” is not biblical. When the Bible describes a person “sleeping” in relation to death (Luke 8:52;1 Corinthians 15:6), it does not mean literal sleep. Sleeping is just a way to describe death because a dead body appears to be asleep. The moment we die, we face the judgment of God (Hebrews 9:27). For believers, to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord (2 Corinthians 5:6-8;Philippians 1:23). For unbelievers, death means everlasting punishment in hell (Luke 16:22-23).

Until the final resurrection, though, there is a temporary heaven—paradise (Luke 23:43;2 Corinthians 12:4) and a temporary hell—Hades (Revelation 1:18;20:13-14). As can be clearly seen inLuke 16:19-31, neither in paradise nor in Hades are people sleeping. It could be said, though, that a person’s body is “sleeping” while his soul is in paradise or Hades. At the resurrection, this body is “awakened” and transformed into the everlasting body a person will possess for eternity, whether in heaven or hell. Those who were in paradise will be sent to the new heavens and new earth (Revelation 21:1). Those who were in Hades will be thrown into the lake of fire (Revelation 20:11-15). These are the final, eternal destinations of all people—based entirely on whether or not a person trusted in Jesus Christ for salvation.

 

Soul sleep is the teaching that when a person dies, his soul "sleeps" until the time of the future resurrection.  In this condition, the person is not aware or conscious.  The Jehovah's Witnesses and the Seventh-day Adventists hold to this doctrine.  But the Jehovah's Witnesses teach annihilation.  This means that after death a person ceases to exist.  At the future resurrection they maintain that the soul is made again.  Basically, it is a re-creation of the individual.  The Seventh-day Adventists teach at the soul is simply inert and resides in the memory of God.

The primary verses used to support soul sleep are found in Ecclesiastes:

• Eccl. 9:5,  For the living know they will die; but the dead do not know anything, nor have they any longer a reward, for their memory is forgotten."
• Eccl. 12:7,  "then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it."

Ecclesiastes must be understood in the context of its own commentary, which says at the opening of the book, "The words of the Preacher, the son of David, king in Jerusalem. 2 “Vanity of vanities,” says the Preacher, “Vanity of vanities! All is vanity.” 3 What advantage does man have in all his work which he does under the sun?" (Eccl. 1:1-3).  The writer is telling us how things are from the human perspective, from "under the sun."  He is not telling us doctrinal statements about whether or not the soul continues after death.  Besides, it's a mistake to use the Old Testament to interpret the New Testament.  It is the New Testament that sheds light on the Old Testament.

In the New Testament we see Paul say in 2 Cor. 5:8, "we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord."  Paul is clearly telling us that when he dies, he will go and be with the Lord.  Furthermore, at the Transfiguration of Jesus (Matt. 17:1-8) we see Moses and Elijah who were alive.  There was no soul sleep with them.

Therefore, the doctrine of soul sleep is incorrect.  The soul continues on after death.  The wicked face the judgment of God, and the Christians will dwell in His presence.

Both groups are in error about soul sleep.

I don't understand why do people go to Carm or Got Questions. From what I've seen on these sites the subjects are approached from a theological position rather than approaching the Scriptures from a neutral position. It seems to me that they are just presenting their doctrinal positions rather than actually seeking the truth of Scripture. The Scriptures clearly teach that the dead are dead. The Scriptures do not teach that there is something in man that lives on after death. That idea is imposed on the Scriptures. Genesis gives the account of the creation of man. Man consists of two things, a body formed from the dust and the breath/spirit of life which comes from God. We're also told that when a man dies the breath/spirit of life in him returns to God and his body returns to the dust. The breath/spirit of life is something from God, it is not the person. The idea that a person is a spirit/soul/ghost that lives in a body is not a biblical concept it comes from Greek philosophy. According to the Genesis account  the only spirit/breath in a man is God's. It is God's spirit/breath and a body that forms a living soul. A soul "Cannot" exist without a body. It takes God's breath/spirit and a body to make a soul. Since a requires a body, if the body is dead, the soul is dead. It's not in a state of sleep or limbo somewhere, it's dead.

[Guest DRS81]

if the body is dead, the soul is dead.

 

False... please read post 10.

[Butch5]

 

if the body is dead, the soul is dead.

 

False... please read post 10.

 

It's not false, it's what the Bible teaches.

 

7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. (Gen 2:7 KJV)

 

A living soul consists of a body and the breath of life. No body, no soul.

[Guest DRS81]

It's not false, it's what the Bible teaches.

 

7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. (Gen 2:7 KJV)

 

A living soul consists of a body and the breath of life. No body, no soul.

 

Notice Gen 2:7 says FIRST God formed man (BODY), THEN he breathed into his nostrils (SOUL).

God formed man first (BODY), then made him into a soul second (SOUL).

Body and soul are two separate entities with separate functions, thus separate judgments.

You're grasping at straws...please read post 10.

[Butch5]

 

It's not false, it's what the Bible teaches.

 

7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. (Gen 2:7 KJV)

 

A living soul consists of a body and the breath of life. No body, no soul.

 

Notice Gen 2:7 says FIRST God formed man (BODY), THEN he breathed into his nostrils (SOUL).

God formed man first (BODY), then made him into a soul second (SOUL).

Body and soul are two separate entities with separate functions, thus separate judgments.

You're grasping at straws...please read post 10.

 

That's not what it says. It says God breathed into him the breath of life. The Greek word for breath translated spirit, it's not soul. It says the body and the breath/spirit "became" a living soul. Those two combined to form a soul. Therefore if one of them is absent you don't have a soul. The spirit or breath belongs to God and returns to Him at death. The body returns to the dust. That leaves "Nothing" to continue on after death. When a man dies he is dead. There is nothing left of him to live on.

[Guest DRS81]

The spirit or breath belongs to God and returns to Him at death. The body returns to the dust.

 

Yes, the spirit and soul of the believer go to be with the Lord immediately after death, while their body rest in the grave awaiting resurrection. What's the problem here..

[Butch5]

 

The spirit or breath belongs to God and returns to Him at death. The body returns to the dust.

 

Yes, the spirit and soul of the believer go to be with the Lord immediately after death, while their body rest in the grave awaiting resurrection. What's the problem here..

 

That's not what it says. The spirit/breath returns to God not the soul. A soul is a physical  being, something that can be touched with the hands. The Bible calls fish and animals souls. They are living beings.

[Guest DRS81]

 

 

The spirit or breath belongs to God and returns to Him at death. The body returns to the dust.

 

Yes, the spirit and soul of the believer go to be with the Lord immediately after death, while their body rest in the grave awaiting resurrection. What's the problem here..

 

That's not what it says. The spirit/breath returns to God not the soul. A soul is a physical  being, something that can be touched with the hands. The Bible calls fish and animals souls. They are living beings.

 

 

I hate to be the pest here or 'that guy', but you really need to go to commentary man.

Learn what other people are saying about scripture, get a different perspective.

I've asked you like more than once to read post 10.

In regard to Gen 2:7, you're taking scripture out of context.

Step out of the box you're in because you can't sum up this study with just one scripture.

Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible http://biblehub.com/genesis/2-7.htm

And breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; which in that way entered into his body, and quickened it, which before was a lifeless lump of clay, though beautifully shapen: it is in the plural number, the "breath of lives" (l), including the vegetative, sensitive, and rational life of man. And this was produced not with his body, as the souls of brutes were, and was produced by the breath of God, as theirs were not; nor theirs out of the earth, as his body was: and these two different productions show the different nature of the soul and body of man, the one is material and mortal, the other immaterial and immortal:

 

Also explain this..Matthew 17:1-4 reads, "And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart, And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light. And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him. Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias." Moses had been dead (Deuteronomy 34:5) for fifteen centuries; yet, despite being dead, he is able to speak to Jesus. Clearly, Moses' soul was not asleep in the grave. The same is true of Elijah, who centuries earlier had been caught up in a whirlwind (2nd Kings 2:11). Elijah was still conscious.

Lastly, do you consider yourself a Christadelphian, Jehovah's Witness or a Seventh-Day Adventist?