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Remnantrob

Court Rulings correct?

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Hello Friends,

 

For the most part Christianity stands firm on the bible with regards to whether or not homosexuality is a sin.  If you have been paying attention to the news media you might have noticed that slowly state by state is making same sex marriage legal.  Now I am an American and believe in the constitution  just as much as the next guy.  I want to know do you agree with the courts rulings that same sex marriage is constitutional.  Before anyone asks I will tell you that my stance is yes based on the constitution,  not morality.  Do you agree or disagree with me and please state why the courts are wrong if you believe they are.  Thanks and God bless.

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All that matters is God's opinion. I think it's wrong from a Christian perspective. I don't think we need to say why, unless you're a 'pick 'n mix' Christian. They're the ones that pick scripture they like and disregard the stuff that frightens them. You can't say that God is omniscient, but say He's wrong about homosexuality being a sin, therefore homosexual marriage being wrong. Homosexuality is a sin, so how does marriage help cast away that sin? It doesn't. 

Romans 13 says we must respect the Laws of the land. But ultimately, we need to stop thinking that God cares about our opinion. No matter who you are, God doesn't care about your opinion. Just because man adapts Law, and bypasses God's word, doesn't mean God suddenly thinks homosexuality is ok. Homosexuality isn't just wrong because God said so:

 

Homosexuals more likely to suffer from depression: "A new study in the United Kingdom has revealed that homosexuals are about 50% more likely to suffer from depression and engage in substance abuse than the rest of the population, reports Health24.com....the risk of suicide jumped over 200% if an individual had engaged in a homosexual lifestyle...the lifespan of a homosexual is on average 24 years shorter than that of a heterosexual...While the Health 24 article suggested that homosexuals may be pushed to substance abuse and suicide because of anti-homosexual cultural and family pressures, empirical tests have shown that there is no difference in homosexual health risk depending on the level of tolerance in a particular environment. Homosexuals in the United States and Denmark - the latter of which is acknowledged to be highly tolerant of homosexuality - both die on average in their early 50's, or in their 40's if AIDS is the cause of death

 

In their study of the sexual profiles of 2,583 older homosexuals published in Journal of Sex Research, Paul Van de Ven et al. found that "the modal range for number of sexual partners ever [of homosexuals] was 101–500." In addition, 10.2 percent to 15.7 percent had between 501 and 1000 partners. A further 10.2 percent to 15.7 percent reported having had more than 1000 lifetime sexual partners. 

 

2% of U.S. population is gay yet it accounts for 61% of HIV infection:  "Men who have sex with men remain the group most heavily affected by new HIV infections. While CDC estimates that MSM represent only 2 percent of the U.S. population, they accounted for the majority (61 percent; 29,300) of all new HIV infections in 2009. Young MSM (ages 13 to 29) were most severely affected, representing more than one quarter of all new HIV infections nationally (27 percent; 12,900 in 2009)."  (Center for Disease Control) 

 

It's clear from secular statistics that homosexuality is 'bad'. While we shouldn't judge the sinner, it doesn't help anyone to ignore the sin.

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Ok Alan, I get what you're saying and I agree with you in that morally it is wrong.  But again we are talking about in regards to the constitution.  The founders of this country were some pretty smart guys in that they knew what it was to have both the state and church have a union of power and dictate what a person should or should not do.  Hence the declaration of Independence(first part)

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness

 

Now the problem is that marriage became a state issued license and although Christians say marriage is a christian institution, you can't impose a religious activity on a person so we're back to square one.  What say you?

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The answer to satisfy the constitution is to allow civil partnership agreements, that way a homosexual couple will have some sort of 'legal protection' in the way that married couples have. Of course any two people will be able to have a civil partnership agreement whether they are homosexual or not, so it won't necessarily have to refer to a sexual relationship of any kind,it could just be a friendship or a business arrangement..

By doing this equality under the constitution is achieved but nobody is condoning 'gay' marriage.

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The answer to satisfy the constitution is to allow civil partnership agreements, that way a homosexual couple will have some sort of 'legal protection' in the way that married couples have. Of course any two people will be able to have a civil partnership agreement whether they are homosexual or not, so it won't necessarily have to refer to a sexual relationship of any kind,it could just be a friendship or a business arrangement..

By doing this equality under the constitution is achieved but nobody is condoning 'gay' marriage.

 

Thanks Willowwood,

 

Sounds great but the problem with that suggestion is that you're making a state mandate descriminatory and biased because the law would be based on the Judeo Christian interpretation of marriage.

 

I guess my next question is why should the state allow the definitions of a marriage to be the union of a man and a woman?

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The US Constitution does not, as far as I know, address marriage - gay or otherwise. And any powers not specifically given to the federal government revert to the States. It is a States rights issue, not a constitutional/federal issue. Aside from that fact, as followers of Christ, we are to follow GOD's laws, even if they run contrary to todays societal norms.

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The US Constitution does not, as far as I know, address marriage - gay or otherwise. And any powers not specifically given to the federal government revert to the States. It is a States rights issue, not a constitutional/federal issue. Aside from that fact, as followers of Christ, we are to follow GOD's laws, even if they run contrary to todays societal norms.

 ^ This... it is a States rights issue, and not a constitution issue. The part of the constitution that was quoted earlier... "Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness"... what part of that is being violate by opposing or supporting gay marriage? The fact is the homosexuals still have life, they still have the same liberty a heterosexual married person or a single heterosexual or gay person has, and they still have the ability to PURSUE happiness... Homosexuality is a sin in the eyes of GOD, and that's all I am concerned with.

 

Note: even the Constitution doesn't say we have the right to ACHIEVE happiness... only pursue it....

Edited by WebFisher
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Great answers guys.  Now the states are required to uphold the constitution as well correct?  The marriage licenses are issued by state laws.  So why should we try to influence laws that promote our religious beliefs?  Where in the bible is a marriage license required for a marriage to be acknowledged by God? 

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Yes, States have to uphold the Constitution. But, although some states have allowed gay marriage by popular vote, many have defined marriage as between one man and one woman. The FEDERAL COURTS have ruled that such laws, again passed by popular vote, are un-Constitutional. They are making law. The Federal branches of government have no right to tell the States that their laws are un-Constitutional when the issue is clearly a States rights issue that in neither discrimantory, a violation of civil rights, nor immoral. Gay marriage is not a civil right, or an inalienable right.

 

Why should we try to influence laws that promote our religious beliefs? Because we are in Christ and He is in us. We are supposed to try and influence people to follow Christ. Christ, who is GOD in the flesh, considers homosexuality an abomination, therefore so should we. I will not judge them for their sexual desires, but I will do everything in my power to oppose their agenda, which is to impose acceptance of their "lifestyle" upon me behavior and forced social participation.

 

Marriage has always been acknowledged and sanctioned by society, even throughout the illustrations given in Scripture. Maybe no "license" was required, but GOD judges the intent of the heart, within the bounds of His decretive will. And He had decreed that homosexuality is an abomination and a sin, and in 1 Corinthians 6:9,10 said "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God."(AKJV) They way to inherit the kingdom of GOD is to believe in Christ and repent (change one's mind) of sin.

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Ok Alan, I get what you're saying and I agree with you in that morally it is wrong.  But again we are talking about in regards to the constitution.  The founders of this country were some pretty smart guys in that they knew what it was to have both the state and church have a union of power and dictate what a person should or should not do.  Hence the declaration of Independence(first part)

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness

 

Now the problem is that marriage became a state issued license and although Christians say marriage is a christian institution, you can't impose a religious activity on a person so we're back to square one.  What say you?

"Why should we try to influence the laws to promote our religious beliefs?" Because our belief in God should cause us to abide by the Law, but the Spirit should guide us to what is good and pleasing to the Lord. I must respect a homosexual couples right to marriage, but I don't, and should not agree to it. Jesus called us to follow the Law and be subject to the governments. I am subject, but I can still verbally disagree with strong disdain. 

You get that homosexuality is wrong, BUT we're talking about the Constitution? I hate to tell you Americans, but God doesn't care about the U.S Constitution. You speak of the Constitution as if it were divinely inspired. You can't say to God 'Homosexuality was legal in our nation.' God decides what is legal, what is wrong. You can't possibly defend that statement from a Christian perspective, only as an American. God doesn't care about your citizenship. The word 'God' doesn't appear in the Constitution. While governments exist under God, that doesn't mean they are for God. The U.S was not founded as a Christian nation.The 1706 Treaty with Tripoli says that 'the United States was not in any sense founded on the Christian religion.' Most of the Founding Fathers were deists, not Christian,

God isn't pro-America, pro-Britain etc. That's not what John 3:16 means. It means that God loves each individual that makes up the world. God doesn't care about a mass of people, He loves the individuals that make the collective. God won't judge man on whether He abides by man-made Laws.

You can't impose God's word on man, damn straight. But that still doesn't change the fact that when man wanders from God's word, it's called 'sin.' Whether the U.S allows that sin is utterly mute, God still hates that sin, and absolutely doesn't care about mankind's laws. He orders us to follow the law of the land, but He isn't bound by it.

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