Bible_Gazer Posted January 31, 2014 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 450 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 152 Days Won: 1 Joined: 09/05/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted January 31, 2014 If you have a sin nature by birthCan you get rid of it ? can you change Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwikphilly Posted January 31, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 96 Topic Count: 306 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 18,130 Content Per Day: 4.64 Reputation: 27,806 Days Won: 327 Joined: 08/03/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted January 31, 2014 Blessings Bible_Gazer The Holy Spirit can........that is the new creature in Christ Jesus having His heart & mind & Living in His righteousness.....Glory be to God! With love,in Christ-Kwik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Butero Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 I saw an old thread on this topic that I can't locate...I think Butero was a part of that one but I can't remember. If there is a way to find it and delete this thread I don't mind. Ok, original sin... My problem with the idea of original sin isn’t new to most orthodox Christians especially if you’ve been a member of this website for a long time. If there is such thing as original sin and humanity became sinners the day they were born how can Jesus be our substitute? I know about the scripture that says he is the second Adam but is this the perfect Adam before the fall who only was tempted outwardly or post fall, therefore just like you and I, also tempted from within as much as without? If so how are we considered sinners the day we are born and share that nature with Jesus yet the bible says he never sinned? Your thoughts and comments are appreciated especially when supported by scripture. Gracias I have been part of threads on this topic. I do believe in the doctrine of original sin. It is obvious we are all effected by original sin, as we all suffer sickness and death. Women have pain in child bearing and men earn a living by the sweat of their brow. You could ask why, since we didn't partake of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil? It is because we are all part of Adam's blood line. One of the reasons why the virgin birth was necessary is so Jesus would be the Son of God, and not a descendant of Adam. Had he been born a descendant of Adam, he would have been born with original sin, and not been a spotless sacrifice. This is another one of those hot button issues where the church has been in disagreement as long as I can remember, but as for me, I fully believe this doctrine is true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted January 31, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 596 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,043 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,783 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted January 31, 2014 Yes, everyone is guilty of sin when they sin. An infant that is two days old has not sinned. Original sin says that this infant is guilty for the sin that Adam committed. The Scriptures teach that everyone is guilty for their own sins, not the sins of others. 19 Yet say ye, Why? doth not the son bear the iniquity of the father? When the son hath done that which is lawful and right, and hath kept all my statutes, and hath done them, he shall surely live. 20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him. (Eze 18:19-20 KJV) If Adam is the father of the human race then no one but Adam shall bear his sins. I would say that the Baby has not sinned, but because he is a human with a human father he is under the curse of Adam for his sin and will die. Adam corrupted the entire world and maybe the whole creation, for the whole creation groans waiting for the human sons of God to come. I agree that people are born under the curse. Paul said that death reigned from Adam to Moses in though they did not sin after the manner of Adam's sin. I just don't see anything in Scripture that says that people are born condemned as sinners. As I said, that teaching doesn't appear in church history until Augustine. That alone is enough to show me that it's not what the Scriptures teach well it goes against my church doctrine, but I think I would have to say that I agree with you here. I do believe that we all have a sin nature though..... Obvious to me that Adam was created with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butch5 Posted January 31, 2014 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 559 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 136 Days Won: 2 Joined: 09/09/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/01/1962 Share Posted January 31, 2014 .. I will agree that babies are born innocent, but that doesn't change the fact they are born into a fallen world. I'm not gonna die for Adam's sin. I wasn't born guilty of Adam's sin. I was born with the same nature as Adam but not guilty of "His" sin. I can agree with this statement, but you are still gonna die one day because Adam originally brought sin into the world. Yeah, but that's not the doctrine of original sin. The doctrine says that I'm going to die because I'm guilty of Adam's sin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butch5 Posted January 31, 2014 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 559 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 136 Days Won: 2 Joined: 09/09/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/01/1962 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Yes, everyone is guilty of sin when they sin. An infant that is two days old has not sinned. Original sin says that this infant is guilty for the sin that Adam committed. The Scriptures teach that everyone is guilty for their own sins, not the sins of others. 19 Yet say ye, Why? doth not the son bear the iniquity of the father? When the son hath done that which is lawful and right, and hath kept all my statutes, and hath done them, he shall surely live. 20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him. (Eze 18:19-20 KJV) If Adam is the father of the human race then no one but Adam shall bear his sins. I would say that the Baby has not sinned, but because he is a human with a human father he is under the curse of Adam for his sin and will die. Adam corrupted the entire world and maybe the whole creation, for the whole creation groans waiting for the human sons of God to come. I agree that people are born under the curse. Paul said that death reigned from Adam to Moses in though they did not sin after the manner of Adam's sin. I just don't see anything in Scripture that says that people are born condemned as sinners. As I said, that teaching doesn't appear in church history until Augustine. That alone is enough to show me that it's not what the Scriptures teach well it goes against my church doctrine, but I think I would have to say that I agree with you here. I do believe that we all have a sin nature though..... Obvious to me that Adam was created with that. I can understand that. When I began to seriously study the Scriptures I found all kinds of things that went against my church's doctrine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bible_Gazer Posted January 31, 2014 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 450 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 152 Days Won: 1 Joined: 09/05/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted January 31, 2014 Blessings Bible_Gazer The Holy Spirit can........that is the new creature in Christ Jesus having His heart & mind & Living in His righteousness.....Glory be to God! With love,in Christ-KwikHello kwikI agree it takes the holy spirit to change us,to create within us a new heart because we created a corrupt heart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DRS81 Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Yeah, but that's not the doctrine of original sin. The doctrine says that I'm going to die because I'm guilty of Adam's sin. You're guilty of sin because of what Adam did, thus living in a fallen world and needing the repentance of the cross. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butch5 Posted January 31, 2014 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 559 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 136 Days Won: 2 Joined: 09/09/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/01/1962 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Yeah, but that's not the doctrine of original sin. The doctrine says that I'm going to die because I'm guilty of Adam's sin. You're guilty of sin because of what Adam did, thus living in a fallen world and needing the repentance of the cross. I'm guilty of sin because of what I did, not what Adam did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DRS81 Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Yeah, but that's not the doctrine of original sin. The doctrine says that I'm going to die because I'm guilty of Adam's sin. You're guilty of sin because of what Adam did, thus living in a fallen world and needing the repentance of the cross. I'm guilty of sin because of what I did, not what Adam did. No you're guilty because of what Adam did to God, thus needing the cross. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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