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Genesis 1:2

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These questions I ask keep getting lost in the debates of other issues, so I would like to see if anyone can actually produce an answer that makes sense. (My apologies if you feel I misrepresented anything you have said, but in the end I never perceived my questions to be given clear answers.)

 

Genesis 1:2

The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters.

 

(I posted  the NAB version; you are free to post another version if you prefer the wording.)

 

 

1.Why was the eretz (earth) "formless and void"?

 

2. How long did this eretz exist at this point?

 

3. Where did this "darkness" come from? Why was it there? How did it get there?

 

4. What is the "deep"? Where was it? Where did it come from? How long did it exist before this point?

 

5. What were "the waters"? Where did it/they come from? How long were they/it there?

 

6. Where were "the deep" and "the waters" in relation to the eretz?

 

7. Where was the darkness in relation to the eretz?

 

8. Is there or is there not a connection or correlation to the eretz and "the deep" and "the waters"? If so, what? If not, why not?

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http://www.amazon.com/Earths-Earliest-Ages-G-Pember/dp/0825435331/ref=sr_1_sc_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1391020361&sr=8-1-spell&keywords=g.+h.+pemver

 

you can get the Kindle version of this for ten bucks......

 

 

The best review of the book copied from the Amazon web site.

 

G.H. Pember lived from 1837-1910. As a result, this book's language can be quite difficult for the modern reader to follow. However, it is worth it. To begin with, Pember ably reconciles the 6000 year history of man from Adam to the present age with the scientific findings that the earth is much older than 6000 years of age. He also discusses some of the finer points of the book of Genesis, including the time of Noah, and the evil that was taking place upon the earth that was so bad that God felt he had to start over.

Probably the most controversial chapter in the book is the last - "As It Was in the Days of Noah" - which talks about the current age being the last. Pember lays out seven trends that prove that these (in his case, the late 19th century) are the end times. This is where he really gets mocked on various websites I have visited, but he does have some points that are undeniable if you give them some thought.

First Pember says that man has come to regard God - if he regards him at all - as Creator and Benefactor, not as a God that must deal with sinners. In other words the common view among people today is that "God is Love" with no regard for justice, and that somehow nearly all, with the exception of the worst criminals, will escape God's judgement.

Second, Pember quotes "An undue prominence of the female sex, and a disregard for the primal law of marriage." He doesn't discuss much about the first part of this sentence, but the second part he discusses at length as man's willingness to see marriage as a contract that can be ended at any time. This has clearly come to pass.

Third, Pember notes "A rapid progress in the mechanical arts ...Also a proficiency in the fine arts". Here, Pember is noting that the industrial revolution, which had already occurred at the time he wrote this, made life so much easier that man could disregard God due to the mitigation of the original curse put on man at the time of Adam. Pember argues that the fine arts "induce an entire oblivion of God" because entertainment tends to distract man from God. If this was true in 1900, it is so much more true today! In the U.S. people are becoming more and more obese because the world of entertainment and an easy life are killing them physically as well as spiritually as they hardly need to get off of their couches to perform any task or fulfill any desire. Not that anyone would want to go back to carrying water from earthen wells, but the effect of man's reliance on automation for so many things coupled with the ability to fill the resulting leisure time with custom-built entertainment of every kind imaginable undoubtedly makes it easy to ignor God.

Pember's fourth trend is "an alliance between the nominal church and the World". Here Pember is basically saying that the nominal church and the World wed by subverting spiritual things and making their gatherings more of a show devoid of God and His desires. Again, this is still seen in the present age.

The fifth trend is "a vast increase in population". Here, he never really makes a case as to why this is a bad trend, at least in my opinion.

The sixth trend is "the rejection of the preaching of Enoch and Noah". Pember is talking about the rejection of calls to repentence, and the fact that the Lord is tarrying in returning is causing many to mock the preaching ones. At the time Pember wrote this, he mentions a revival that had been going on fifty years. Add another century, and look around, and you can see that getting anyone to take you seriously when you say the end times are here is indeed a problem. However,Pember notes it was 120 years from the time God decided to flood the earth until it actually happened.

The seventh and final trend is "The appearance upon earth of the Principalities of the Air and their unlawful union with the human race." This was something mentioned in the book of Genesis and discussed at length in Pember's book about the times of Noah, although even Pember doesn't make a strong argument for this currently happening.

In summary, even though it is over 100 years old, I really recommend this book. It is hard to read due to the antiquity of the 19th century writing style, but it discusses matters you won't find in any other book. Also, if you think long and hard about what Pember is saying, you'll see that he has many points to make that are relevant to today's believers and the world condition. Of course, if you are not a Christian, you will probably be totally unconvinced by this book, since it is not a beginning book of evangelism.

 

 

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Is there anything in this book that addresses the questions I asked?

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Is there anything in this book that addresses the questions I asked?

in looking for a good overview of the book I ran across an online version of it for free.

 

https://archive.org/stream/earthsearliestag00pemb#page/24/mode/2up

 

look through it ....    I think it will give some things to consider concerning all these questions.

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These questions I ask keep getting lost in the debates of other issues, so I would like to see if anyone can actually produce an answer that makes sense. (My apologies if you feel I misrepresented anything you have said, but in the end I never perceived my questions to be given clear answers.)

 

Genesis 1:2

The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters.

 

(I posted  the NAB version; you are free to post another version if you prefer the wording.)

 

 

1.Why was the eretz (earth) "formless and void"?

 

2. How long did this eretz exist at this point?

 

3. Where did this "darkness" come from? Why was it there? How did it get there?

 

4. What is the "deep"? Where was it? Where did it come from? How long did it exist before this point?

 

5. What were "the waters"? Where did it/they come from? How long were they/it there?

 

6. Where were "the deep" and "the waters" in relation to the eretz?

 

7. Where was the darkness in relation to the eretz?

 

8. Is there or is there not a connection or correlation to the eretz and "the deep" and "the waters"? If so, what? If not, why not?

Can you point to one question that cannot be answered without a complete reliance on pure speculation or assumption?    Why do you want answers to questions you know that no one alive today can actually answer.?

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These questions I ask keep getting lost in the debates of other issues, so I would like to see if anyone can actually produce an answer that makes sense. (My apologies if you feel I misrepresented anything you have said, but in the end I never perceived my questions to be given clear answers.)

 

Genesis 1:2

The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters.

 

(I posted  the NAB version; you are free to post another version if you prefer the wording.)

 

 

1.Why was the eretz (earth) "formless and void"?

 

2. How long did this eretz exist at this point?

 

3. Where did this "darkness" come from? Why was it there? How did it get there?

 

4. What is the "deep"? Where was it? Where did it come from? How long did it exist before this point?

 

5. What were "the waters"? Where did it/they come from? How long were they/it there?

 

6. Where were "the deep" and "the waters" in relation to the eretz?

 

7. Where was the darkness in relation to the eretz?

 

8. Is there or is there not a connection or correlation to the eretz and "the deep" and "the waters"? If so, what? If not, why not?

These are interesting questions. I have wondered some similar things to this. What are these waters etc. Unfortunately I have no good insight here.

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Is there anything in this book that addresses the questions I asked?

in looking for a good overview of the book I ran across an online version of it for free.

 

https://archive.org/stream/earthsearliestag00pemb#page/24/mode/2up

 

look through it ....    I think it will give some things to consider concerning all these questions.

 

Thanks, Other One! What he wrote provides the most clarity of anything I have seen.

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Can you point to one question that cannot be answered without a complete reliance on pure speculation or assumption?    Why do you want answers to questions you know that no one alive today can actually answer.?

 

Looking at Genesis 1:2 this way, asking these questions, are the reason I first questioned the validity of the YEC interpretation of Genesis 1, why I eventually turned away from that intepretation, and why I cannot return to it.

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Pember is putting forth the tired old myth about the Gap Theory where there is a huge gap of millions upon millions of years between Gen. 1:1 and 1:2.   It can be demonstrated biblically to be false on every claim it makes.  

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Pember is putting forth the tired old myth about the Gap Theory where there is a huge gap of millions upon millions of years between Gen. 1:1 and 1:2.   It can be demonstrated biblically to be false on every claim it makes.  

 

Well,so far, it offers the best answers.

 

I'm up for alternatives.

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