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Irreducible Complexity


Enoch2021

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Let me state that I am a Christian, yet I take a skeptical view of many claims (not the tenets of the Faith), including evolution: I am not fully convinced of the latter.  But I do have problems with some creationist claims as well.  For example that evolution violates the 2nd law of Thermodynamics, that dinosaurs and humans coexisted, the Grand Canyon was formed by the Flood, that light traveled at awesome speeds in the past, as well as the subject of this thread. I think you can still believe that God created the universe yet be dubious of such statements.  I am not asking you for a detailed defense of these.  I am not going to convince anyone otherwise, so don't worry about it.

 

"For example that evolution violates the 2nd law of Thermodynamics"

 

Strawman.  2LOT doesn't Violate "evolution"........ it Violates Abiogenesis.

 

 

"that dinosaurs and humans coexisted"

 

 

Cambodia-Dinosaur-Closeup-300x286_zps9a4     ancient27_zpsfd6ec8de.jpg

 

 

Ica-Stone-Hunting-Dinos-Cleaned-Up1_zpsa  Gryposaurus-and-Dogon-Bronze_zps12f6b849

 

 

"the Grand Canyon was formed by the Flood"

 

It certainly wasn't formed by the Colorado River.....unless, you think water can travel uphill for > than 1000 meters.

 

 

"that light traveled at awesome speeds in the past"

 

No just one day in the past, Day 4......

 

(Genesis 1:14-19) "And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:  {15} And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.  {16} And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.  {17} And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,  {18} And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.  {19} And the evening and the morning were the fourth day."

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Blessings enoch....

     AWESOME!!!!! I do not ever remember seeing anything that depicted a man RIDING a dinasour......I love it,where did you find that little piece?You can PM me if you have a link.......love it!!!!!

                                                                                                                                      With love in Christ-Kwik

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I was not asking for a point by point response, but it was very thoughtful for you to try. Suffice it to say that I am familiar with these claims.  The images are interesting;  where did you get #1 and #3?  I think the Kachina Bridge image has been determined not to be what it appears on first glance.  A couple thoughts:  why is the Grand Canyon wandering in shape, wouldn't it be more straight if a single flood formed it?  And why are there not other Grand Canyons throughout the world?   So the light from stars and galaxies millions and billions of light years away travelled all that way in one day?  That would be creating the heavens with apparent age. . .

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Let me state that I am a Christian, yet I take a skeptical view of many claims (not the tenets of the Faith), including evolution: I am not fully convinced of the latter.  But I do have problems with some creationist claims as well.

 

Sure, but to believe complex physiological functions to have developed one mutation at a time is quite fanciful.

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"After the fallen angels went into the daughters of men, the sons of men taught the mixture of animals of one species with the other, in order to provoke the Lord" The Book of Jasher (4:18).

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Blessings enoch....

     AWESOME!!!!! I do not ever remember seeing anything that depicted a man RIDING a dinasour......I love it,where did you find that little piece?You can PM me if you have a link.......love it!!!!!

                                                                                                                                      With love in Christ-Kwik

 

Check this:  http://www.genesispark.com/exhibits/evidence/historical/ancient/dinosaur/

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I was not asking for a point by point response, but it was very thoughtful for you to try. Suffice it to say that I am familiar with these claims.  The images are interesting;  where did you get #1 and #3?  I think the Kachina Bridge image has been determined not to be what it appears on first glance.  A couple thoughts:  why is the Grand Canyon wandering in shape, wouldn't it be more straight if a single flood formed it?  And why are there not other Grand Canyons throughout the world?   So with the light from stars and galaxies millions and billions of light years away travelled all that way in one day?  That would be creating the heavens with apparent age. . .

 

"but it was very thoughtful for you to try."

 

Thanks, and it was a couple of degrees (on the top end) of  "try".

 

"where did you get #1 and #3?"

 

Check the link I posted to kwik.

 

"I think the Kachina Bridge image has been determined not to be what it appears on first glance."

 

Yes, I heard that.  No worries, I have thousands more.

 

"why is the Grand Canyon wandering in shape, wouldn't it be more straight if a single flood formed it?  And why are there not other Grand Canyons throughout the world?"

 

I haven't the first Clue.  I'm neither a Geologist or Hydrologist...you could query them I suppose.

 

 

"So with the light from stars and galaxies millions and billions of light years away travelled all that way in one day?"

 

The Speed of Light isn't a measure of Time, it's a measure of Distance.  You're, "begging the question"....assuming the very thing you're trying to prove, if you use the CURRENT or "Present" Speed of Light and then attempt to extrapolate it to Creation Week.

 

If you think the Laws of Physics/Chemistry/Biochemistry et al were the same now as Creation Week....I suggest you read the first Chapter of Genesis.  The reading will put that notion to bed in a PLANCK TIME.

 

I'll just take GOD'S WORD for it. :)

 

 

"That would be creating the heavens with apparent age. . ."

 

That statement is contingent on the implied conundrum of your first statement (see directly above) being True.  Did Adam have the appearance of age?

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Let me state that I am a Christian, yet I take a skeptical view of many claims (not the tenets of the Faith), including evolution: I am not fully convinced of the latter.  But I do have problems with some creationist claims as well.

 

Sure, but to believe complex physiological functions to have developed one mutation at a time is quite fanciful.

 

 

Hey Neb,

 

Fanciful is being way way too Kind in regards to Mutations  ....more Like "EXPONENTIALLY ABSURDLY PREPOSTEROUS" ...would be in the vicinity of an accurate Characterization.

 

:)

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I was not asking for a point by point response, but it was very thoughtful for you to try. Suffice it to say that I am familiar with these claims. The images are interesting; where did you get #1 and #3? I think the Kachina Bridge image has been determined not to be what it appears on first glance. A couple thoughts: why is the Grand Canyon wandering in shape, wouldn't it be more straight if a single flood formed it? And why are there not other Grand Canyons throughout the world? So with the light from stars and galaxies millions and billions of light years away travelled all that way in one day? That would be creating the heavens with apparent age. . .

"but it was very thoughtful for you to try."

Thanks, and it was a couple of degrees (on the top end) of "try".

"where did you get #1 and #3?"

Check the link I posted to kwik.

"I think the Kachina Bridge image has been determined not to be what it appears on first glance."

Yes, I heard that. No worries, I have thousands more.

"why is the Grand Canyon wandering in shape, wouldn't it be more straight if a single flood formed it? And why are there not other Grand Canyons throughout the world?"

I haven't the first Clue. I'm neither a Geologist or Hydrologist...you could query them I suppose.

"So with the light from stars and galaxies millions and billions of light years away travelled all that way in one day?"

The Speed of Light isn't a measure of Time, it's a measure of Distance. You're, "begging the question"....assuming the very thing you're trying to prove, if you use the CURRENT or "Present" Speed of Light and then attempt to extrapolate it to Creation Week.

If you think the Laws of Physics/Chemistry/Biochemistry et al were the same now as Creation Week....I suggest you read the first Chapter of Genesis. The reading will put that notion to bed in a PLANCK TIME.

I'll just take GOD'S WORD for it. :)

"That would be creating the heavens with apparent age. . ."

That statement is contingent on the implied conundrum of your first statement (see directly above) being True. Did Adam have the appearance of age?

[/

That is really straining the definition of begging the question, especially when we have a known quantity. By stating that the speed of light is a constant is not a circular argument. The speed of light is not a measure of distance, that would be a light year.

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I was not asking for a point by point response, but it was very thoughtful for you to try. Suffice it to say that I am familiar with these claims.  The images are interesting;  where did you get #1 and #3?  I think the Kachina Bridge image has been determined not to be what it appears on first glance.  A couple thoughts:  why is the Grand Canyon wandering in shape, wouldn't it be more straight if a single flood formed it?  And why are there not other Grand Canyons throughout the world?   So with the light from stars and galaxies millions and billions of light years away travelled all that way in one day?  That would be creating the heavens with apparent age. . .

 

"but it was very thoughtful for you to try."

 

Thanks, and it was a couple of degrees (on the top end) of  "try".

 

"where did you get #1 and #3?"

 

Check the link I posted to kwik.

 

"I think the Kachina Bridge image has been determined not to be what it appears on first glance."

 

Yes, I heard that.  No worries, I have thousands more.

 

"why is the Grand Canyon wandering in shape, wouldn't it be more straight if a single flood formed it?  And why are there not other Grand Canyons throughout the world?"

 

I haven't the first Clue.  I'm neither a Geologist or Hydrologist...you could query them I suppose.

 

 

"So with the light from stars and galaxies millions and billions of light years away travelled all that way in one day?"

 

The Speed of Light isn't a measure of Time, it's a measure of Distance.  You're, "begging the question"....assuming the very thing you're trying to prove, if you use the CURRENT or "Present" Speed of Light and then attempt to extrapolate it to Creation Week.

 

If you think the Laws of Physics/Chemistry/Biochemistry et al were the same now as Creation Week....I suggest you read the first Chapter of Genesis.  The reading will put that notion to bed in a PLANCK TIME.

 

I'll just take GOD'S WORD for it. :)

 

 

"That would be creating the heavens with apparent age. . ."

 

That statement is contingent on the implied conundrum of your first statement (see directly above) being True.  Did Adam have the appearance of age?

 

It isn't begging the question when the quantity you are referring to you is already a fact.  By stating that it is a constant is not a circular argument.  The speed of light is not a measure of distance, that would be a light year.

 

 

"It isn't begging the question when the quantity you are referring to you is already a fact"

 

It's a fact NOW.  If you extrapolate the "Current" Speed of Light back to Creation Week and then make a conclusion based on that assumption (Current Speed)..... it certainly is "begging the question", It's the Textbook definition of it.  Can you prove the Speed of Light was the Current Speed on Day 4 of Creation Week?

 

 

"The speed of light is not a measure of distance, that would be a light year."

 

Yes, I know.  But wasn't that what you were implying with this...."the light from stars and galaxies millions and billions of light years away travelled"??  Sorry, next time I'll be more precise and say "Light Year" instead of "Speed of Light". 

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