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We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not


Jesus Christ Driven

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Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

 

In the Greek the phrase "doth not commit sin" is a word that means that we don't  habitually practice sin.    It doesn't mean that we don't stumble in a sincere attempt to serve the Lord.   It means that we do not make sin our way of life. 

 

Can you give a reference to that? I don't understand greek that much, but looking it up in strongs, I don't see that.

Does not

οὐ

ou

oo

Also οὐκ ouk ook used before a vowel and οὐχ ouch ookh before an aspirate.

A primary word; the absolutely negative (compare G3361) adverb; no or not: - + long, nay, neither, never, no (X man), none, [can-] not, + nothing, + special, un ([-worthy]), when, + without, + yet but. See also G3364, G3372.

Commit has a wide meaning

G4160

ποιέω

poieō

poy-eh'-o

Apparently a prolonged form of an obsolete primary; to make or do (in a very wide application, more or less direct): - abide, + agree, appoint, X avenge, + band together, be, bear, + bewray, bring (forth), cast out, cause, commit, + content, continue, deal, + without any delay, (would) do (-ing), execute, exercise, fulfil, gain, give, have, hold, X journeying, keep, + lay wait, + lighten the ship, make, X mean, + none of these things move me, observe, ordain, perform, provide, + have purged, purpose, put, + raising up, X secure, shew, X shoot out, spend, take, tarry, + transgress the law, work, yield. Compare G4238.

 

Sin

G266

ἁμαρτία

hamartia

ham-ar-tee'-ah

From G264; sin (properly abstract): - offence, sin (-ful).

 

 

With all due respect Joshua, Strong's Dictionary  doesn't qualify as "looking up the Greek."    Strongs is an exhaustive work, not an analytical work and so he simply gives you all of the possible meanings of a word, without giving you any information as to which meaning applies to which passage of Scripture.   So as a stand alone reference it won't do you much good.  Word usage is more important than a word's dictionary or lexical definition.

 

According to AT Robertson:

"(hamartian ou poiei). Linear present active indicative as in 1Jn. 3:4 like hamartanei in 1Jn. 3:8. The child of God does not have the habit of sin."

 

The New American Standard Bible, which is the most accurate English translation from the Greek and Hebrew, renders the verse:

 

 No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. (I Jn 3:9)

 

The English Standard version reads;

 

No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God. 1Jn 3:9

 

Further evidence that this verse doesn't mean that if you are a Christian you will NEVER commit another single sin, is that we find sin in the New Testament being committed by Paul when he harbored unforgiveness toward John Mark, and when Peter and Barnabas joined the Judaizers' heresy for a temporary time. 

 

John in his first epistle isn't saying that if you are a Christian you will never, ever sin, not a single time, the rest of your life.   The reason John wrote his epistles was due to the growing presence of gnostics in the churches at that time.  They were attempting to masquarade as Christians while leading people astray with false teachings. 

 

John’s purpose in writing this epistle was to show how the churches could recognize the false believers from those who were truly following the Lord.   In this passage in Chapter three, he is telling us that that those who continue to live habitually in sin are not born of God.   Their testimony is not true because they don't live transformed lives.

 

As a Christian,  I will not seek opportunities to sin.  I will not live a lifestyle that isn’t pleasing to the Lord.  That doesn’t mean that I won’t stumble.  That’s the whole point behind needing God’s grace everyday.   If grace is only there when we don’t mess up, what good is it?   It's like a car insurance policy that only covers you when you don't have an accident.   It would be a worthless policy.  

 

Grace isn’t for the people who never sin, who never mess up.   Grace is for the rest of us.  Grace is there to say, “I forgive you,”   and picks us up and puts us back on the horse.

 

The problem is further exacerbated by the fear of never really knowing if you are saved or not, if your works are held up as the barometer for salvation.   If I am running from the notion that never sinning, even once is the standard for living, then you would never know if you are saved because sin comes in two forms.  You sin by what doing what you should not do, and you  also sin by not doing what you should do.   So never knowing if you have just committed a sin by not doing something that you should have done, always second guessing your actions and choices would be paralyzing.   Your salvation would be completely reliant on YOU doing the right things at all times in order to convince yourself you are a true Christian.

 

But thanks be to God, my works are not the barometer for my salvation.   I KNOW I am saved because I have the Holy Spirit living within me who witnesses to my spirit that I am a child of God (Rom. 8:17) and I am also sealed and kept by the Holy Spirit until the final day (Eph. 1:13-14)  

 

John says this, as well:

 

And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

(1Jn 5:11-13)

 

So according to John I can KNOW I am saved, not because I never, ever commit a single sin, but because I have believed on the Name of the Son of God.

 

My salvation is based on the finished work of Jesus on the cross, not because I live perfectly.  The evidence of my salvation is the out working of his truth in my life, not because I am perfect on every point.  

 

 

 

Ok thanks. thanks for clarifying. I wasn't saying that to debate the point you were making. Just wondering, cause all I have is strongs.  I agree we are in the process of learning to abide and if we stumble, we have an advocate for us.

 

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Amen! But you can never convince a person who believes that they are perfect and without fault in their own eyes that they are wrong. At least by now, in this thread and for those who have read all the posts in it, most have seen the truth that we all continue to sin, not continually or willfully, but that until we are with the Lord we still have our sinful nature.

 

Jesus gave His life so you can be without fault blameless in His sight. He has taken our sins upon Himself and imputed His righteousness to us. If He sees you righteous, shouldn't you see yourself as righteous? You can live with a pure conscience before the Lord, not by your own power, but by His blood your sins were blotted out. By His Spirit, you partake in a new nature. God is so powerful, His ability to keep us and transform us is greater than our ability to fail and miss it. He's more than a theology, He's real and He lives in you. He calls you a new adam. stop acting like the old. :)

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Amen! But you can never convince a person who believes that they are perfect and without fault in their own eyes that they are wrong. At least by now, in this thread and for those who have read all the posts in it, most have seen the truth that we all continue to sin, not continually or willfully, but that until we are with the Lord we still have our sinful nature.

Yes,I agree Parker I do not willfully sin but I definately am not perfect and will not be until I go home.I have sacrificed alot.Movies,televison,secular radio everything that I could think of that would make me stumble and fall and I still sin.Because I am human.

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I see myself exactly as you say, Joshua. Still, I have no illusions that I no longer sin. I know that GOD no longer sees me as sinful, but attributes my sin to the sinful nature that remains within me until I am perfected - like Christ. People are saying that they do not sin, not that GOD does not impute sin to them. That is not true and if you believe that, then you don't ever have to confess to GOD that you have not yielded completely to the Holy Spirit in any area of your life. That is what sin is after all. Anyone who says he does not sin does not know GOD. It is just as much a sin to say we have no sin, than to do the act of sin.  It is as if we are calling God a liar and the truth is not in us, which means something else is in us.

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I see myself exactly as you say, Joshua. Still, I have no illusions that I no longer sin. I know that GOD no longer sees me as sinful, but attributes my sin to the sinful nature that remains within me until I am perfected - like Christ. People are saying that they do not sin, not that GOD does not impute sin to them. That is not true and if you believe that, then you don't ever have to confess to GOD that you have not yielded completely to the Holy Spirit in any area of your life. That is what sin is after all. Anyone who says he does not sin does not know GOD. It is just as much a sin to say we have no sin, than to do the act of sin.  It is as if we are calling God a liar and the truth is not in us, which means something else is in us.

Yes..  :mgcheerful:

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--- we will be able to reach a Sinless life."

I do not agree with your understanding of entire sancitification. It is based on poorly translated verbs in the KJV that have no direct translation in English--a present progressive tense. They mean to keep on sinning or to make it a lifestyle.

For instance 1 John 1:6-10 AMP reads If we say we are partakers together and enjoy fellowship with Him when we LIVE and move and ARE WALKING ABOUT in darkness, we are speaking falsely and do not live and PRACTICE the Truth [of the Gospel]. But if we [really] ARE LIVING AND WALKING in the Light as He [Himself] is in the Light, we have [true, unbroken] fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses (removes) us from all sin and guilt---KEEPS US CLEANSED from sin in all its forms and manifestations. 8 IF WE SAY WE HAVE NO SIN---REFUSING TO ADMIT THAT WE ARE SINNERS---WE DELUDE AND LEAD OURSELVES ASTRAY, AND THE TRUTH [WHICH THE GOSPEL PRESENTS] IS NOT IN US---does not dwell in our hearts.. 9 If we freely admit that we have sinned and confess our sins, He is faithful and just [true to His own nature and promises] and will forgive our sins (dismiss our lawlessness) and CONTINUOUSLY CLEANSE us from all unrightousness---everything not in conformity to His will in purpose, thought and action. 10 If we say (claim) we have not sinned, we contradict His Word and make Him out to be false and a liar, and His Word is not in us---the divine message of the Gospel is not in our hearts.

I bought the Amplified New Testament in 1958 when it was newly released and it is the first version I read. It was not corrupted by the Gnostic influenced alexandrian manuscript from Alexandria Egypt that is used by most modern versions, as I understand.

1 John 3:6 No one who abides in Him---who lives and remains in communion with and in obedience to Him, [DELIBERATELY AND KNOWINGLY] COMMITS (PRACTICES) SIN. No one who habitually commits sins has either seen or known Him--recognized, perceived or understood Him or has had an experimental acquaintance with Him. 8a But He who commits sin (who PRACTICES EVIL DOING) is of the devil---takes his character from the evil one; for the devil has sinned (has violated the divine law) from the beginning. 9 No one born (begotten) of God [deliberately and knowingly] HABITUALLY PRACTICES SIN. for God's nature abides in Him---His principle of life, the divine sperm, remains permanently within him---and he cannot PRACTICE SINNING because he is born (begotten) of God.

1 John 5:18 Amp We know [absolutely] that any one born of God does not [deliberately and knowingly] PRACTICE COMMITTING SIN, but the One Who was begotten of God carefully watches over and protects him---Christ's divine presence within him preserves him against the evil---and the wicked one does not law hold (get a grip) on him or touch [him].

This is not watering down sin. It is correctly translating the verbs and more comprehensive meanings of nouns. For instance God's love is translated [ God's love for and in us] in 1 Cor 13: Amp , so that no one can confuse it with sexual love. Wuest defines agape as: "God's love produced in the heart of the yielded saint by the Holy Spirit, a love that impels one to deny himself for the sake of the loved one."] Sometimes the words in our language do not clearly translate the original because the greek words are more specific. King James is more poetic, but at the expense of accuracy at times. This was the criticism of another translator when KJV was first translated. But it does give rise to the Amplified version, the Expanded Translation by Wuest and the Analytical-Literal Translation of the New Testament, 3rd edition, which uses the majority text used also by KJV.

Blessings,

Willa

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Guest shiloh357

 

Amen! But you can never convince a person who believes that they are perfect and without fault in their own eyes that they are wrong. At least by now, in this thread and for those who have read all the posts in it, most have seen the truth that we all continue to sin, not continually or willfully, but that until we are with the Lord we still have our sinful nature.

 

Jesus gave His life so you can be without fault blameless in His sight. He has taken our sins upon Himself and imputed His righteousness to us. If He sees you righteous, shouldn't you see yourself as righteous? You can live with a pure conscience before the Lord, not by your own power, but by His blood your sins were blotted out. By His Spirit, you partake in a new nature. God is so powerful, His ability to keep us and transform us is greater than our ability to fail and miss it. He's more than a theology, He's real and He lives in you. He calls you a new adam. stop acting like the old. :)

 

Everything you said is absolutely true. But being righteous is a matter of both position and practical Christianity.   Where we fall into error is when we start taking what the Bible says we are and interpreting that in the light of our experience.   I am righteous by the work of Jesus on the cross.  That is my position before God.  I am in rightstanding before God and under grace.   If I start measuring my salvation by the level at which my life reflects that reality, I will fall into some serious  condemnation.  

 

We are called by God to live out the reality of His grace in our lives.  We are called to holy living on the ground and basis that He is holy.  The Bible NEVER indicates that our salvation is conditioned upon a perfectly sinless life.   If that were the case, who would be able to stand?

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We are called by God to live out the reality of His grace in our lives.  We are called to holy living on the ground and basis that He is holy.  The Bible NEVER indicates that our salvation is conditioned upon a perfectly sinless life.   If that were the case, who would be able to stand?

 

Hebrews 1:3 The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven.

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Guest shiloh357

 

We are called by God to live out the reality of His grace in our lives.  We are called to holy living on the ground and basis that He is holy.  The Bible NEVER indicates that our salvation is conditioned upon a perfectly sinless life.   If that were the case, who would be able to stand?

 

Hebrews 1:3 The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven.

 

Okay, so what is the point you are wanting us to take away from that?

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Amen! But you can never convince a person who believes that they are perfect and without fault in their own eyes that they are wrong. At least by now, in this thread and for those who have read all the posts in it, most have seen the truth that we all continue to sin, not continually or willfully, but that until we are with the Lord we still have our sinful nature.

 

Jesus gave His life so you can be without fault blameless in His sight. He has taken our sins upon Himself and imputed His righteousness to us. If He sees you righteous, shouldn't you see yourself as righteous? You can live with a pure conscience before the Lord, not by your own power, but by His blood your sins were blotted out. By His Spirit, you partake in a new nature. God is so powerful, His ability to keep us and transform us is greater than our ability to fail and miss it. He's more than a theology, He's real and He lives in you. He calls you a new adam. stop acting like the old. :)

 

Everything you said is absolutely true. But being righteous is a matter of both position and practical Christianity.   Where we fall into error is when we start taking what the Bible says we are and interpreting that in the light of our experience.   I am righteous by the work of Jesus on the cross.  That is my position before God.  I am in rightstanding before God and under grace.   If I start measuring my salvation by the level at which my life reflects that reality, I will fall into some serious  condemnation.  

 

We are called by God to live out the reality of His grace in our lives.  We are called to holy living on the ground and basis that He is holy.  The Bible NEVER indicates that our salvation is conditioned upon a perfectly sinless life.   If that were the case, who would be able to stand?

 

:) But it is completely conditioned upon a perfectly sinless life, His life.  Salvation is measured by His work on the cross. There is no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus.

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