Enoch2021 Posted March 3, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 11 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,396 Content Per Day: 0.90 Reputation: 730 Days Won: 4 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/26/1963 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Enoch2021 -If you would be so kind as to not provide a Thousand Word essay. Could you list 5-6 Tenets and 2-5 supporting statements with each? You are certainly asking alot of a person frequently characterized as loquacious, but I will try. 1. Each day of creation is begun not with God doing something but saying something ..."And God said". (The origin of everything by one cause...the Word of God.) a. Genesis 1 has a consistent construction -Command - accomplishment/fulfillment - activity after fullment - designated day. b. Clearly "And God said" is the sole and only operative agent, God's command was the source of creation.. (Gen. 1 - Psalm 33:6 - Heb 11:3 - 2 Peter 3:5) c. If, as Genesis states, that "Let there be..."Let the land...""Let the waters..." is the lone and unique agent then statements following would by necessity be explanatory. (Otherwise one would need to show that God's Word/command was not the sufficient cause of creation) d. "And God made..." statements are not the operative agent but an explanation of results. e. God's commands do not necessitate complete fulfillment within each day. 1.As an example Genesis 1:6,9,11,20,24 depict processes. 2.Further example Gen. 1:24 avoids "And God said, Let there be living creatures." as do the other verses attached to days. So in 6 days God commanded all of the "laws" for the incipient powers, elements, material, etc. as to the natural processes of phenomena to be produced, just as they are today. Upon each fiat or command nothing more remained to be done. The time frames whether as science avers or otherwise finds the Genesis passage silent. Hope this helps...at some point I will find all of my notes on this and various other topics...or not. As with you I have put a considerable amount of time in the study of this subject. Certainly I do not wish to impose my views, couldn't if I tried, and most assurdedly do not have all of the answers. Blessings........... ================================================================================ I am No Bible Scholar; hence, Hebrew/Greek Scholar. I have issues with English LOL Being that the majority of your post deals with Hebrew and meanings specifically, Shiloh 357 would be the best @ commenting on this. However, I'll take a shot 1. Each day of creation is begun not with God doing something but saying something ..."And God said". I was under the impression that the "saying" is the "doing" when it comes to THE ALMIGHTY GOD a. Genesis 1 has a consistent construction -Command - accomplishment/fulfillment - activity after fullment - designated day. Designated Day is not an "Activity" ....just a Title. If no "doing" then what do you mean by "accomplishment/fulfillment"?? .... or are you saying "GOD Said" was the accomplishment/fulfillment ?? c. If, as Genesis states, that "Let there be..."Let the land...""Let the waters..." is the lone and unique agent then statements following would by necessity be explanatory. (Otherwise one would need to show that God's Word/command was not the sufficient cause of creation) d. "And God made..." statements are not the operative agent but an explanation of results. Are you saying that "the land", "the waters", "et al" have sentience/intelligence? e. God's commands do not necessitate complete fulfillment within each day. Except for the fact that within each day; this phrase shows up.................."AND IT WAS SO" So in 6 days God commanded all of the "laws" for the incipient powers, elements, material, etc. as to the natural processes of phenomena to be produced, just as they are today Are you saying Life can come from Non-Life today because of the (current) incipient powers of the elements/materials? The time frames whether as science avers or otherwise finds the Genesis passage silent. Except for the numbered DAYS in Genesis and.................. (Exodus 20:11) "For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it." ** Special Note ** HE Carved this into Stone with HIS FINGER :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tolken Posted March 3, 2014 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 405 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 98 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/27/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted March 3, 2014 (edited) Enoch2021: I was under the impression that the "saying" is the "doing" when it comes to THE ALMIGHTY GOD Yes, the saying may be termed the doing but then beyond that would be redundant. As the verses state God spoke and that was all sufficient. Designated Day is not an "Activity" ....just a Title. If no "doing" then what do you mean by "accomplishment/fulfillment"?? .... or are you saying "GOD Said" was the accomplishment/fulfillment ?? Actually, in a way yes. Again, if one wants to use the word "doing" then I'm suggesting that God's WORD was the only all sufficient doing. No, day is not an activity and I did not mean to imply such. Day establishes the point of command. Are you saying that "the land", "the waters", "et al" have sentience/intelligence? No, I'm suggesting the "land, water, etc" were created by God to follow His commands. God's command instilled/imbued the "laws of nature", if you will, that we see function and produce and thrive every day. Except for the fact that within each day; this phrase shows up.................."AND IT WAS SO" Yes, and what was so? From my interpretation what was so was that God's commands were introduced and actualized, not by any necessity to be immediate. Are you saying Life can come from Non-Life today because of the (current) incipient powers of the elements/materials? Absolutely NOT, God and God alone is the creator of life. I am suggesting that the "incipient powers" created not a static earth or universe put active vibrant ones. Except for the numbered DAYS in Genesis and.................. We agree that there were six days of creation, I though interpret them as six Command days. Again, the basic premise is that what God commands/decrees is certain to be fulfilled therefore "it was and is so". Edited March 3, 2014 by Tolken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enoch2021 Posted March 3, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 11 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,396 Content Per Day: 0.90 Reputation: 730 Days Won: 4 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/26/1963 Share Posted March 3, 2014 =========================================================== Except for the fact that within each day; this phrase shows up.................."AND IT WAS SO" Yes, and what was so? From my interpretation what was so was that God's commands were introduced and actualized, not by any necessity to be immediate. Wouldn't that premise be redundant? ...."GOD Commands" then "It Was So"??... if the "GOD Commands" was the direct Antecedent to the "It was So"? That's where IMHO, you may be in error. That's basically it in a nutshell..... you think the Antecedent to "It was So" was "GOD SAID" and that's it, correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerryR34 Posted March 3, 2014 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 18 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 588 Content Per Day: 0.15 Reputation: 82 Days Won: 2 Joined: 11/22/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/12/1969 Share Posted March 3, 2014 (edited) Why would it take God 6 days? Couldn't he have snapped his fingers and had it done instantaneously? In the grand scheme of things there is no difference beteween instantly and 6 days? Either God couldn't do it instantly or Genesis is allegory for our benefit. Edited March 3, 2014 by jerryR34 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tolken Posted March 3, 2014 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 405 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 98 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/27/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted March 3, 2014 Enoch2021 - Wouldn't that premise be redundant? ...."GOD Commands" then "It Was So"??... if the "GOD Commands" was the direct Antecedent to the "It was So"? That's where IMHO, you may be in error. I don't see the fulfillment and/or actualization as being redundant. I interpret the "And it was so" as the absolute confirmation of God's decrees, as in Isa. 55:11 (I believe you quoted that same verse previous), being accomplished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tolken Posted March 3, 2014 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 405 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 98 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/27/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted March 3, 2014 JerryR34 - Why would it take God 6 days? Couldn't he have snapped his fingers and had it done instantaneously? In the grand scheme of things there is no difference beteween instantly and 6 days? Either God couldn't do it instantly or Genesis is allegory for our benefit. False dilemma ...other possibilites other then couldn't and allegory. Why don't we have 5 days in a week or 10? Why do we have daylight savings time, it is quite onerous in the winter up north here. Why did I purchase a blue truck instead of the silver one? Ultimately God choose 6 days...you would have to ask Him. (Also, I've always liked the number 6) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enoch2021 Posted March 3, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 11 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,396 Content Per Day: 0.90 Reputation: 730 Days Won: 4 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/26/1963 Share Posted March 3, 2014 ========================================================================== Why would it take God 6 days? Couldn't he have snapped his fingers and had it done instantaneously? Because HE said so. HE could have done it in a Planck Time, but that's not the Issue....it's What HE SAID HE DID. In the grand scheme of things there is no difference beteween instantly and 6 days? Either God couldn't do it instantly or Genesis is allegory for our benefit. The Difference is What HE said HE did. As mentioned above it speaks to.....Do You Trust HIS WORD or NOT? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerryR34 Posted March 3, 2014 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 18 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 588 Content Per Day: 0.15 Reputation: 82 Days Won: 2 Joined: 11/22/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/12/1969 Share Posted March 3, 2014 ========================================================================== Why would it take God 6 days? Couldn't he have snapped his fingers and had it done instantaneously? Because HE said so. HE could have done it in a Planck Time, but that's not the Issue....it's What HE SAID HE DID. In the grand scheme of things there is no difference beteween instantly and 6 days? Either God couldn't do it instantly or Genesis is allegory for our benefit. The Difference is What HE said HE did. As mentioned above it speaks to.....Do You Trust HIS WORD or NOT? How do you know? Did He mention Planck Time in Genesis? Did he reveal that measure of time to us or are you making stuff up? You did not answer my question Enoch..Could God not do it instantly or is Genesis allegory? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enoch2021 Posted March 3, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 11 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,396 Content Per Day: 0.90 Reputation: 730 Days Won: 4 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/26/1963 Share Posted March 3, 2014 ================================================== OK, Lets use this as our example.... (Genesis 1:14-15) "And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so." (Genesis 1:16-19) "And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. {17} And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, {18} And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good. {19} And the evening and the morning were the fourth day." So the Antecedent for "It Was So" is: "GOD said" or "let them be for lights in the Firmament of heaven to give light upon the Earth" ?? Was all this accomplished on the 4th Day? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerryR34 Posted March 3, 2014 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 18 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 588 Content Per Day: 0.15 Reputation: 82 Days Won: 2 Joined: 11/22/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/12/1969 Share Posted March 3, 2014 (edited) JerryR34 - Why would it take God 6 days? Couldn't he have snapped his fingers and had it done instantaneously? In the grand scheme of things there is no difference beteween instantly and 6 days? Either God couldn't do it instantly or Genesis is allegory for our benefit. False dilemma ...other possibilites other then couldn't and allegory. Why don't we have 5 days in a week or 10? Why do we have daylight savings time, it is quite onerous in the winter up north here. Why did I purchase a blue truck instead of the silver one? Ultimately God choose 6 days...you would have to ask Him. (Also, I've always liked the number 6) haha...we have a winner...Enoch is constantly positing false dichotomies on evolutonary theory, thought I'd throw one back at him to see what it's like. Nice catch. Edited March 3, 2014 by jerryR34 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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