Hebrew Professor and the Gap Theory

[Sheniy]

You're just going to tell me I'm wrong, anyway. This specific issue was already discussed in a different thread. I've seen your arguments against it, and all you really did basically was imply everyone was stupid. Sorry, but no thanks.

No, I just proved that they don't know Hebrew nor are they skilled at Exegesis or hermeneutics.

No, you proved nothing.

You don't even know what I'm talking about. In fact your arguments showed a clear lack of understanding on the subject, so forgive me if I don't defer to your judgment.

And, like I said, it was already discussed in depth. No point in bringing it up again.

Bring it up just long enough to falsely accuse me and then withdraw it because you suddenly don't want to bring up???   LOL, Whatever helps you sleep at night...   So typical of people who don't have a cogent or meaningful argument to make.

1. I told you from the beginning I didn't want to elaborate. You were the one who wouldn't let it go.

2. What exactly did I falsely accuse you of?

3. You can whine all you want. I'm still not telling.

[Guest shiloh357]

 

 

 

 

You're just going to tell me I'm wrong, anyway. This specific issue was already discussed in a different thread. I've seen your arguments against it, and all you really did basically was imply everyone was stupid. Sorry, but no thanks.

No, I just proved that they don't know Hebrew nor are they skilled at Exegesis or hermeneutics.

 

No, you proved nothing.

You don't even know what I'm talking about. In fact your arguments showed a clear lack of understanding on the subject, so forgive me if I don't defer to your judgment.

And, like I said, it was already discussed in depth. No point in bringing it up again.

 

Bring it up just long enough to falsely accuse me and then withdraw it because you suddenly don't want to bring up???   LOL, Whatever helps you sleep at night...   So typical of people who don't have a cogent or meaningful argument to make.

 

1. I told you from the beginning I didn't want to elaborate. You were the one who wouldn't let it go.

2. What exactly did I falsely accuse you of?

3. You can whine all you want. I'm still not telling.

 

You falsely accused me of implying that other people were stupid and I have done nothing like that on any thread.   Like I said, it's just the kind of desperate tactic you run to when you can't actually address the substance of an argument.   You allude to it just long enough to accuse me of something I never said and then when called on it, you can't really point to anything.  I think you know it's a false accusation and you know if I was able to see it, I could probably shred your false accusation.

 

Anyway, I don't really care enough to keep arguing about something that trivial as your made-up accusation.  So no need to bring up anymore.  My conscience is clean.

[Sheniy]

1. I told you from the beginning I didn't want to elaborate. You were the one who wouldn't let it go.

2. What exactly did I falsely accuse you of?

3. You can whine all you want. I'm still not telling.

You falsely accused me of implying that other people were stupid and I have done nothing like that on any thread.

Oh, you mean this:

I've seen your arguments against it, and all you really did basically was imply everyone was stupid. Sorry, but no thanks.

...Okay, I'll admit "stupid" was a strong word. You didn't actually say "stupid".

[Guest]

Speaking of literary devices, the words "And God said" appear 6 times in Genesis 1.  Did God actually speak or is this a literary device conveying a different meaning?

 

Yep, it means that God spoke.   The Bible says in Hebrews: 

 

By faith we understand that the universe was created by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things that are visible.

(Hebrews 11:3)   The word used for "word" in Greek is "rhema" which refers to the uttered/spoken word of God

 

Psalms 33:6 also confirms this: 

By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth.

(Psalms 33:6)

 

So God has a mouth?  How many teeth?

 

~

 

Beloved, Not Really A Wise

 

And some began to spit on him, and to cover his face, and to buffet him, and to say unto him, Prophesy: and the servants did strike him with the palms of their hands. Mark 14:65

 

(Or Funny) Comment

 

As many were astonished at you— his appearance was so marred, beyond human semblance, and his form beyond that of the children of mankind— so shall he sprinkle many nations; kings shall shut their mouths because of him; for that which has not been told them they see,

and that which they have not heard they understand. Isaiah 52:14-15 (ESV)

 

Be Blessed

 

Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. 2 Corinthians 5:20

 

Love, Joe

[Guest]

If "and God said" is a figure of speech, what does that change about God or even Genesis 1?

 

Figures of speech get used in historical narratives all the time.  

 

Does it make God less of a God? 

 

Does it make Genesis untrue? 

 

Why is looking at "and God said" the same way as I look at "He will spread his wings" an example of not having faith in the Bible? 

 

 

When God Speaks

 

For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

 

Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. John 5:26-29

 

Even The Material World

 

And when he was entered into a ship, his disciples followed him.

 

And, behold, there arose a great tempest in the sea, insomuch that the ship was covered with the waves: but he was asleep. And his disciples came to him, and awoke him, saying, Lord, save us: we perish.

 

And he saith unto them, Why are ye fearful, O ye of little faith? Then he arose, and rebuked the winds and the sea; and there was a great calm.

 

But the men marvelled, saying, What manner of man is this, that even the winds and the sea obey him! Matthew 8:23-27

 

Listens

 

And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

 

And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

 

And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

 

And the evening and the morning were the fourth day. Genesis 1:14-19

 

Got Ears To Hear?

 

He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;

 

The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;

 

The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

 

As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

 

The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

 

And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

 

Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear. Matthew 13:37-43

[EnochBethany]

IMHO:

I do not claim that a gap in time between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2 is an exegetical necessity.  However, it does appear to me that there is possibly some amount of time between God creating the heavens & the earth & the earth being tohu & bohu, waste & void.  Does not Isaiah say God did not creat the earth that way?  The idea of God creating a waste & void earth seems to me improbable. 

 

Putting an unknown period of time between 1:1 and 1:2  does not depend on unnecessary baggage like:

1) postulating a pre-Adamic race,

2) changing the meaning of "the earth was waste" to "the earth BECAME waste." 

 

The other alternative is to make 1:1 a paragraph heading, which I do not deny is possible.

 

If there is a gap between 1:1 and 1:2, then we don't have revelation as to when the earth was created.  We do have revelation as to when Adam was created, though some famous Christian scholars have denied that one can add up the dates in Genesis to date Adam's creation, scholars like Unger and Archer.   A young human race does not necessitate a young earth. 

 

The Day Age theory has been held by some Christians.  But I don't find it consistent with symbiosis (as just for an example, one might have a bird that cannot live without the existence of some land animal, which fact would rule out a long age of birds before land animals were created).

 

I will admit that I have not searched enough for grammatical parallels to 1:1-2 in the Hebrew Bible.

[a-seeker]

 

I came to a crossroads in life where I had to make a decision.   I was tired of constantly having to correct the Bible I said I believed.  Constantly having to reclarify the Bible was getting me frustrated because I was confronted by the fact that I didn't really believe was written.  I believed what I could justify believing in my mind.  Plus I was getting close to evolution and that is when I realized that I could no longer keep up the inconsistent, incoherent theology I was trying to put together in my mind. 

 

I decided to trust God.  I decided to believe Him and take Him at His word.  I don't have the answers to all of the challenges to YEC, admittedly, but I have the Word of an allknowing God who doesn't give us all the answers.  If He gave us all of the answers, we would have no reason to trust Him.  So it is possible to ask me questions that I can't answer about YEC.   But that doesn't bother me because I stopped defining my faith by what did or did not answers to.   My faith became defined by the Bible.  I got tired of cultural Christianity and decided to live in biblical Christianity.

 

Hi Shiloh,

 

since you took things here in a refreshingly autobiographical direction, I wanted to ask you what you thought of the opposite maneuver (excluding abandoning faith as a maneuver)? Basically, why is it that I feel (I want to keep things subjective for the moment) just as close to God, and feel just as much admiration for His Word, receiving enormous nourishment from it at every reading, and insistent that my faith be defined by the Bible etc. etc.?  Should I not feel all that?  Are these subjective "feelings" of mine incongruent to my "interpretation"; is it simply that I don't realize that, if I really knew what I was saying, I would see my convictions were poorly grounded? How is it that we can differ soooo much on our interpretations, yet we both admire God and His Word and acknowledge Its authority over our life and conduct?

 

 

 

clb

[Guest shiloh357]

 

 

I came to a crossroads in life where I had to make a decision.   I was tired of constantly having to correct the Bible I said I believed.  Constantly having to reclarify the Bible was getting me frustrated because I was confronted by the fact that I didn't really believe was written.  I believed what I could justify believing in my mind.  Plus I was getting close to evolution and that is when I realized that I could no longer keep up the inconsistent, incoherent theology I was trying to put together in my mind. 

 

I decided to trust God.  I decided to believe Him and take Him at His word.  I don't have the answers to all of the challenges to YEC, admittedly, but I have the Word of an allknowing God who doesn't give us all the answers.  If He gave us all of the answers, we would have no reason to trust Him.  So it is possible to ask me questions that I can't answer about YEC.   But that doesn't bother me because I stopped defining my faith by what did or did not answers to.   My faith became defined by the Bible.  I got tired of cultural Christianity and decided to live in biblical Christianity.

 

Hi Shiloh,

 

since you took things here in a refreshingly autobiographical direction, I wanted to ask you what you thought of the opposite maneuver (excluding abandoning faith as a maneuver)? Basically, why is it that I feel (I want to keep things subjective for the moment) just as close to God, and feel just as much admiration for His Word, receiving enormous nourishment from it at every reading, and insistent that my faith be defined by the Bible etc. etc.?  Should I not feel all that?  Are these subjective "feelings" of mine incongruent to my "interpretation"; is it simply that I don't realize that, if I really knew what I was saying, I would see my convictions were poorly grounded? How is it that we can differ soooo much on our interpretations, yet we both admire God and His Word and acknowledge Its authority over our life and conduct?

 

 

 

clb

 

I think the difference between us is that I trust His word.  I don't merely "admire" it.  I am not simply inspired by it.   I trust God to mean what He says.   So when God says He made the earth in six days, I simply trust Him to mean that.  It's how I approach the Bible.  I don't have to search for some other kind of "meaning" to the text because I can't bring myself to believe what I am reading in God's word. 

 

I don't think you and I start from the same point of reference when it comes to Scripture.   I start from the vantage point that it is the inspired, inerrant word of God and that God is competent to say what He means.   I don't have to spirtualize it, in order to give myself something else to believe since I can't wrap my head around what the text actually says.

[LookingForAnswers]

 

 

 

I came to a crossroads in life where I had to make a decision.   I was tired of constantly having to correct the Bible I said I believed.  Constantly having to reclarify the Bible was getting me frustrated because I was confronted by the fact that I didn't really believe was written.  I believed what I could justify believing in my mind.  Plus I was getting close to evolution and that is when I realized that I could no longer keep up the inconsistent, incoherent theology I was trying to put together in my mind. 

 

I decided to trust God.  I decided to believe Him and take Him at His word.  I don't have the answers to all of the challenges to YEC, admittedly, but I have the Word of an allknowing God who doesn't give us all the answers.  If He gave us all of the answers, we would have no reason to trust Him.  So it is possible to ask me questions that I can't answer about YEC.   But that doesn't bother me because I stopped defining my faith by what did or did not answers to.   My faith became defined by the Bible.  I got tired of cultural Christianity and decided to live in biblical Christianity.

 

Hi Shiloh,

 

since you took things here in a refreshingly autobiographical direction, I wanted to ask you what you thought of the opposite maneuver (excluding abandoning faith as a maneuver)? Basically, why is it that I feel (I want to keep things subjective for the moment) just as close to God, and feel just as much admiration for His Word, receiving enormous nourishment from it at every reading, and insistent that my faith be defined by the Bible etc. etc.?  Should I not feel all that?  Are these subjective "feelings" of mine incongruent to my "interpretation"; is it simply that I don't realize that, if I really knew what I was saying, I would see my convictions were poorly grounded? How is it that we can differ soooo much on our interpretations, yet we both admire God and His Word and acknowledge Its authority over our life and conduct?

 

 

 

clb

 

I think the difference between us is that I trust His word.  I don't merely "admire" it.  I am not simply inspired by it.   I trust God to mean what He says.   So when God says He made the earth in six days, I simply trust Him to mean that.  It's how I approach the Bible.  I don't have to search for some other kind of "meaning" to the text because I can't bring myself to believe what I am reading in God's word. 

 

I don't think you and I start from the same point of reference when it comes to Scripture.   I start from the vantage point that it is the inspired, inerrant word of God and that God is competent to say what He means.   I don't have to spirtualize it, in order to give myself something else to believe since I can't wrap my head around what the text actually says.

 

 

  So when God says you should pluck out your eye, do you simply trust Him to mean that? 

[Guest]

So when God says you should pluck out your eye, do you simply trust Him to mean that?

 

~

 

Beloved This Burning Hatred Of The God Of The Bible

 

But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:8

 

Is Nearly A Reflection Of A Sinner's Heart

 

The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings. Jeremiah 17:9-10

 

And Has No Bearing On Jesus

 

I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep. John 10:11

 

Nor On His Believers

 

Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. 2 Corinthians 5:20

 

~

 

While There Is Still Life

 

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. John 3:16-17

 

There Is Hope

 

Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. Romans 5:1-2

 

Look Up And Be Blessed Beloved

 

He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. John 3:18

 

Love, Joe