The rapture theory: True or false?

[Enoch2021]

 

I am curious.How can someone say whether the rapture theory is right or wrong when they do not know?

Through studying the bible. For example 2 Thess 2 says our gathering only occurs after the antichrist is revealed in the temple. The rapture is therefore not pre-trib. So we can know. Also the main rapture descriptions contained in 1 Corinthinas 15 and 1 Thessalonians 4/5 have a resurrection and destruction context, ie a second coming context which refutes the idea of an earlier rapture.

 

 

 

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Through studying the bible. For example 2 Thess 2 says our gathering only occurs after the antichrist is revealed in the temple. The rapture is therefore not pre-trib.

 

 

After being shown your error.....over 10 Times------SPECIFICALLY, you continue down the same path??   I just don't get it.      We all make errors, I made two within the first five minutes after getting up this morning lol.  But after being shown an error, to continue and say there was no error.......That's an Entirely Different Animal sir.

 

And, the antichrist isn't revealed in the Temple Argosy (That's the Abomination of Desolation)

 

He's "revealed" here....

 

(Daniel 9:27) "And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."

 

 

1 Corinthinas 15 and 1 Thessalonians 4/5

 

Then you post Entire Chapters as supporting evidence??  Please SPECIFICALLY identify which passages support your position. 

[ARGOSY]

I am curious.How can someone say whether the rapture theory is right or wrong when they do not know?

Through studying the bible. For example 2 Thess 2 says our gathering only occurs after the antichrist is revealed in the temple. The rapture is therefore not pre-trib. So we can know. Also the main rapture descriptions contained in 1 Corinthinas 15 and 1 Thessalonians 4/5 have a resurrection and destruction context, ie a second coming context which refutes the idea of an earlier rapture.

 

====================================================================

 

 

Through studying the bible. For example 2 Thess 2 says our gathering only occurs after the antichrist is revealed in the temple. The rapture is therefore not pre-trib.

 

 

After being shown your error.....over 10 Times------SPECIFICALLY, you continue down the same path??   I just don't get it.      We all make errors, I made two within the first five minutes after getting up this morning lol.  But after being shown an error, to continue and say there was no error.......That's an Entirely Different Animal sir.

 

And, the antichrist isn't revealed in the Temple Argosy (That's the Abomination of Desolation)

 

He's "revealed" here....

 

(Daniel 9:27) "And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."

 

 

1 Corinthinas 15 and 1 Thessalonians 4/5

 

Then you post Entire Chapters as supporting evidence??  Please SPECIFICALLY identify which passages support your position.

Lol Enoch. Whenever I mentioned the timing of the gathering after the revealing, you seemed to focus on the restrainer. Maybe I missed something, its easily possible because your posts are very long. I just don't feel your restrainer argument holds up because 2 Thess 2:1-3 clearly says we will be gathered only after the antichrist is revealed, and yet your restrainer argument places the gathering just before the antichrist is revealed. Because of this I feel your restrainer argument fails. Could you explain where you have dealt with this apparent contradiction and I will read that post and see if it makes any sense to me.

You say that the antichrist "isn't revealed in the temple". Once again your view contradicts scripture, the antichrist is revealed as follows: 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4

Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, 2 that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. 3 Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat IN THE TEMPLE OF GOD, displaying himself as being God.

[ARGOSY]

1 Corinthinas 15 and 1 Thessalonians 4/5

 

Then you post Entire Chapters as supporting evidence??  Please SPECIFICALLY identify which passages support your position.

No problem. The following verses place the rapture at the resurrection of the dead: All the verses are relevant to the resurrection context, but I used caps for extra emphasis on certain wording: 1 Corinthians 15:42-52

42 So also is the RESURRECTION of the dead. It is sown a perishable body, it is raised an IMPERISHABLE body; 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45 So also it is written, “The first man, Adam, became a living soul.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. 46 However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural; then the spiritual. 47 The first man is from the earth, earthy; the second man is from heaven. 48 As is the earthy, so also are those who are earthy; and as is the heavenly, so also are those who are heavenly. 49 Just as we have borne the image of the earthy, we will also bear the image of the heavenly.

50 Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51 Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but WE WILL BE CHANGED, 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised IMPERISHABLE, and WE WILL BE CHANGED.

The following verses place these together: the rapture/the day of the Lord/the thief in the night/destruction of the ungodly. All the verses I quoted are relevant to placing that set of events together, but I did use caps to focus on certain words: 1 Thessalonians 4:16-5:4

16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then WE WHO ARE ALIVE and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words. Now as to the times and the epochs, brethren, you have no need of anything to be written to you. 2 For you yourselves know full well that the DAY OF THE LORD will come just like a THIEF in the night. 3 While they are saying, “Peace and safety!” then DESTRUCTION will come upon them suddenly like labor pains upon a woman with child, and they will not escape. 4 But you, brethren, are NOT IN DARKNESS, that the day would overtake you like a thief

Sure there are many ways you can read this, the bible can be interpreted in many ways. But the wording does actually point strongly to a loud second coming/resurrection/destruction/thief context for the rapture. Not a silent pre-trib rapture.

[mevosper]

 

 

And, the antichrist isn't revealed in the Temple Argosy (That's the Abomination of Desolation)

 

He's "revealed" here....

 

(Daniel 9:27) "And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."

 

 

There needs to be a better analysis of this verse. It takes more than just a casual read to understand what is going on.

 

Daniel 9:24-27:

24 - Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

 

25 - Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

 

26 - And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

 

27 - And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

 

 

Sacrifice/Oblation Cease

Verse 26, 27 is talking about the work of Christ on the cross being the reason for the "sacrifice and the oblation to cease". There is no reason to continue with animal sacrifices now that Christ has shed his blood.

 

Hebrews 9:11-15

11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;

12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:

14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

 

The anti-christ does not cause the ceasing of the sacrifice and oblation. The work of Christ on the cross makes it unnecessary. 

 

 

Christ confirms the covenant

The Hebrew word for "confirm" (gabar) means to prevail, have strength, be strong. The idea "confirm the covenant" is to solidify God's promise of a redeemer, Christ, a savior unto the branch/root of David. 

 

Christ confirmed (strengthened, gave confirmation to) the covenant when he entered into Jerusalem on the colt on the 10th of Nisan. On the 14-15, he was sacrificed (cut off, but not for himself, but for the sins of the world). If people at the time, specifically the religious leaders, were paying attention, they would have seen it. However, they were blind with their own beliefs, rules, and laws rather than to what God was revealing to them. 

 

 

The people of the prince

26 - "...and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood

 

If there is any revealing of the anti-christ here, it is that Ceasar thought of himself as a god, and the people worshiped him and the Roman state as a deity. Regardless, the Roman army came into Jerusalem like a flood and all but removed it from the map, and destroyed the temple.  

 

Verse 24 starts off this section (verses 24-27) with a list of items that will be accomplished - all of them related to the work of Christ on the cross. This cannot be ignored, and takes work and patience to dig through it. Unfortunately for this poster, time has a priority, and mine is up. 

 

For this post, however, these verses are not a revealing of the anti-christ. 

[Enoch2021]

 

 

 

I am curious.How can someone say whether the rapture theory is right or wrong when they do not know?

 

 

Through studying the bible. For example 2 Thess 2 says our gathering only occurs after the antichrist is revealed in the temple. The rapture is therefore not pre-trib.

 

 

After being shown your error.....over 10 Times------SPECIFICALLY, you continue down the same path??   I just don't get it.      We all make errors, I made two within the first five minutes after getting up this morning lol.  But after being shown an error, to continue and say there was no error.......That's an Entirely Different Animal sir.

 

And, the antichrist isn't revealed in the Temple Argosy (That's the Abomination of Desolation)

 

He's "revealed" here....

 

(Daniel 9:27) "And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."

 

 

1 Corinthinas 15 and 1 Thessalonians 4/5

 

Then you post Entire Chapters as supporting evidence??  Please SPECIFICALLY identify which passages support your position.

 

Lol Enoch. Whenever I mentioned the timing of the gathering after the revealing, you seemed to focus on the restrainer. Maybe I missed something, its easily possible because your posts are very long. I just don't feel your restrainer argument holds up because 2 Thess 2:1-3 clearly says we will be gathered only after the antichrist is revealed, and yet your restrainer argument places the gathering just before the antichrist is revealed. Because of this I feel your restrainer argument fails. Could you explain where you have dealt with this apparent contradiction and I will read that post and see if it makes any sense to me.

You say that the antichrist "isn't revealed in the temple". Once again your view contradicts scripture, the antichrist is revealed as follows: 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4

Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, 2 that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. 3 Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat IN THE TEMPLE OF GOD, displaying himself as being God.

 

 

 

 

 

==============================================================================

 

 

I just don't feel your restrainer argument holds up because 2 Thess 2:1-3 clearly says we will be gathered only after the antichrist is revealed,

 

That's because you're not reading the following passages.  Of which I have shown you on multiple occasions.....  2 Tess 2:1-3 are basically a Thesis Statement an Overview.  The rest of or FOLLOWING PASSAGES shed more LIGHT on the subject:

 

(2 Thessalonians 2:3-9) "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;  {4} Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.  {5} Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

{6} And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.  {7} For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.  {8} And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:  {9} Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,"

 

 

The "he" is the Holy Spirit....

 

For him ("That Wicked") to be revealed, the "RESTRAINER" must be removed!! The "Restrainer" is The Holy Spirit and was given to the Body of Christ after Christ left.

 

 

(John 14:16) " And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;"

 

(John 14:26) " But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you."

 

(John 16:7) " Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you."

 

Jesus had to Leave for the "Comforter to Come".  Who did he give it to......"The Church", FOREVER!  It appears from John, that they (Jesus and the Comforter) can't be in the same place @ once.

 

There is absolutely NO WAY the Comforter/RESTRAINER LEAVES THE CHURCH......HE'S THE EMBODIMENT OF IT!!!!!!

 

 

Is that short enough?

[ARGOSY]

 

 

 

 

I am curious.How can someone say whether the rapture theory is right or wrong when they do not know?

 

 

Through studying the bible. For example 2 Thess 2 says our gathering only occurs after the antichrist is revealed in the temple. The rapture is therefore not pre-trib.

 

 

After being shown your error.....over 10 Times------SPECIFICALLY, you continue down the same path??   I just don't get it.      We all make errors, I made two within the first five minutes after getting up this morning lol.  But after being shown an error, to continue and say there was no error.......That's an Entirely Different Animal sir.

 

And, the antichrist isn't revealed in the Temple Argosy (That's the Abomination of Desolation)

 

He's "revealed" here....

 

(Daniel 9:27) "And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."

 

 

1 Corinthinas 15 and 1 Thessalonians 4/5

 

Then you post Entire Chapters as supporting evidence??  Please SPECIFICALLY identify which passages support your position.

 

Lol Enoch. Whenever I mentioned the timing of the gathering after the revealing, you seemed to focus on the restrainer. Maybe I missed something, its easily possible because your posts are very long. I just don't feel your restrainer argument holds up because 2 Thess 2:1-3 clearly says we will be gathered only after the antichrist is revealed, and yet your restrainer argument places the gathering just before the antichrist is revealed. Because of this I feel your restrainer argument fails. Could you explain where you have dealt with this apparent contradiction and I will read that post and see if it makes any sense to me.

You say that the antichrist "isn't revealed in the temple". Once again your view contradicts scripture, the antichrist is revealed as follows: 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4

Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, 2 that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. 3 Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat IN THE TEMPLE OF GOD, displaying himself as being God.

 

 

 

 

 

==============================================================================

 

 

I just don't feel your restrainer argument holds up because 2 Thess 2:1-3 clearly says we will be gathered only after the antichrist is revealed,

 

That's because you're not reading the following passages.  Of which I have shown you on multiple occasions.....  2 Tess 2:1-3 are basically a Thesis Statement an Overview.  The rest of or FOLLOWING PASSAGES shed more LIGHT on the subject:

 

(2 Thessalonians 2:3-9) "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;  {4} Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.  {5} Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

{6} And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.  {7} For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.  {8} And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:  {9} Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,"

 

 

The "he" is the Holy Spirit....

 

For him ("That Wicked") to be revealed, the "RESTRAINER" must be removed!! The "Restrainer" is The Holy Spirit and was given to the Body of Christ after Christ left.

 

 

(John 14:16) " And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;"

 

(John 14:26) " But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you."

 

(John 16:7) " Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you."

 

Jesus had to Leave for the "Comforter to Come".  Who did he give it to......"The Church", FOREVER!  It appears from John, that they (Jesus and the Comforter) can't be in the same place @ once.

 

There is absolutely NO WAY the Comforter/RESTRAINER LEAVES THE CHURCH......HE'S THE EMBODIMENT OF IT!!!!!!

 

 

Is that short enough?

 

 

 

Enoch, yes I agree you have quoted those verses many times.  I really have read those verses you quote many times. You say that verses 1-3 are the overview, the wording of the "overview" contradicts your interpretation of verses 3 to 9. Until you give your rendering of 2 Thessalonians 2: 1-3 we cannot go further with this discussion. I fail to understand how your view of a chapter contradicts the overview of that same chapter. Please explain your view of verses 1 to 3.

[Enoch2021]

 

 

 

And, the antichrist isn't revealed in the Temple Argosy (That's the Abomination of Desolation)

 

He's "revealed" here....

 

(Daniel 9:27) "And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."

 

 

There needs to be a better analysis of this verse. It takes more than just a casual read to understand what is going on.

 

Daniel 9:24-27:

24 - Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

 

25 - Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

 

26 - And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

 

27 - And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

 

 

Sacrifice/Oblation Cease

Verse 26, 27 is talking about the work of Christ on the cross being the reason for the "sacrifice and the oblation to cease". There is no reason to continue with animal sacrifices now that Christ has shed his blood.

 

Hebrews 9:11-15

11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;

12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:

14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

 

The anti-christ does not cause the ceasing of the sacrifice and oblation. The work of Christ on the cross makes it unnecessary. 

 

 

Christ confirms the covenant

The Hebrew word for "confirm" (gabar) means to prevail, have strength, be strong. The idea "confirm the covenant" is to solidify God's promise of a redeemer, Christ, a savior unto the branch/root of David. 

 

Christ confirmed (strengthened, gave confirmation to) the covenant when he entered into Jerusalem on the colt on the 10th of Nisan. On the 14-15, he was sacrificed (cut off, but not for himself, but for the sins of the world). If people at the time, specifically the religious leaders, were paying attention, they would have seen it. However, they were blind with their own beliefs, rules, and laws rather than to what God was revealing to them. 

 

 

The people of the prince

26 - "...and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood

 

If there is any revealing of the anti-christ here, it is that Ceasar thought of himself as a god, and the people worshiped him and the Roman state as a deity. Regardless, the Roman army came into Jerusalem like a flood and all but removed it from the map, and destroyed the temple.  

 

Verse 24 starts off this section (verses 24-27) with a list of items that will be accomplished - all of them related to the work of Christ on the cross. This cannot be ignored, and takes work and patience to dig through it. Unfortunately for this poster, time has a priority, and mine is up. 

 

For this post, however, these verses are not a revealing of the anti-christ. 

 

 

 

 

========================================================================================

 

 

There needs to be a better analysis of this verse. It takes more than just a casual read to understand what is going on.

Daniel 9:24-27:

24 - Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

25 - Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

26 - And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

27 - And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

 

 

 

Better analysis, eh?

 

Then you say this.....

 

"Verse 26, 27 is talking about the work of Christ on the cross being the reason for the "sacrifice and the oblation to cease". There is no reason to continue with animal sacrifices now that Christ has shed his blood."

 

These are the 70 Weeks of Daniel Prophecy:

 

Verse 25: is the most Mind Blowing Prophecy in the Bible IMHO.  Gabriel Predicts Christ's Triumphal Entry into Jerusalem to the EXACT DAY 500 Years in advance.

 

Verse 26: is the INTERVAL between the 69th and 70th Week (That we are still in !!) telling you the Messiah will be Executed and that the City of Jerusalem will be destroyed....which happened in 70AD.

 

Verse 27: Is the 70th Week of Daniel.  The beast (Daniels little horn of Daniel Chapter 7) will Confirm a Covenant for 7 years but in the midst of that 7 years.....the antichrist will walk into the Holy of Holy's and claim he is GOD.  That Starts THE GREAT TRIBULATION

 

That implies, that the Holy Temple will be erected between now and then !!!!!!

 

Casual read, eh?

 

 

The people of the prince

 

Well it was Titus Vespasian and the 5th, 10th, 12th and 15th Roman Legions that destroyed Jerusalem in 70AD.  This passage along with Daniels Interpretation of Nebuchadnezzar's Dream (The Iron legs and feet) which is ROME that has led to many people to think the next time it happens the Ruler (the beast) will be from the Roman Empire.  What people fail to realize is that the Holy Roman Empire had 2 Legs:  Western Europe and an Eastern Leg (Byzantine).  The Byzantine Empire outlasted the Western Leg by 1,000 years and covered a large portion of Assyria.  In Micah and Isaiah they refer to the coming World Leader as The Assyrian.

 

 

Have I eclipsed the casual reading yet??

[Enoch2021]

 

 

 

 

 

I am curious.How can someone say whether the rapture theory is right or wrong when they do not know?

 

 

Through studying the bible. For example 2 Thess 2 says our gathering only occurs after the antichrist is revealed in the temple. The rapture is therefore not pre-trib.

 

 

After being shown your error.....over 10 Times------SPECIFICALLY, you continue down the same path??   I just don't get it.      We all make errors, I made two within the first five minutes after getting up this morning lol.  But after being shown an error, to continue and say there was no error.......That's an Entirely Different Animal sir.

 

And, the antichrist isn't revealed in the Temple Argosy (That's the Abomination of Desolation)

 

He's "revealed" here....

 

(Daniel 9:27) "And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."

 

 

1 Corinthinas 15 and 1 Thessalonians 4/5

 

Then you post Entire Chapters as supporting evidence??  Please SPECIFICALLY identify which passages support your position.

 

Lol Enoch. Whenever I mentioned the timing of the gathering after the revealing, you seemed to focus on the restrainer. Maybe I missed something, its easily possible because your posts are very long. I just don't feel your restrainer argument holds up because 2 Thess 2:1-3 clearly says we will be gathered only after the antichrist is revealed, and yet your restrainer argument places the gathering just before the antichrist is revealed. Because of this I feel your restrainer argument fails. Could you explain where you have dealt with this apparent contradiction and I will read that post and see if it makes any sense to me.

You say that the antichrist "isn't revealed in the temple". Once again your view contradicts scripture, the antichrist is revealed as follows: 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4

Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, 2 that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. 3 Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat IN THE TEMPLE OF GOD, displaying himself as being God.

 

 

 

 

 

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I just don't feel your restrainer argument holds up because 2 Thess 2:1-3 clearly says we will be gathered only after the antichrist is revealed,

 

That's because you're not reading the following passages.  Of which I have shown you on multiple occasions.....  2 Tess 2:1-3 are basically a Thesis Statement an Overview.  The rest of or FOLLOWING PASSAGES shed more LIGHT on the subject:

 

(2 Thessalonians 2:3-9) "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;  {4} Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.  {5} Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

{6} And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.  {7} For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.  {8} And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:  {9} Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,"

 

 

The "he" is the Holy Spirit....

 

For him ("That Wicked") to be revealed, the "RESTRAINER" must be removed!! The "Restrainer" is The Holy Spirit and was given to the Body of Christ after Christ left.

 

 

(John 14:16) " And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;"

 

(John 14:26) " But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you."

 

(John 16:7) " Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you."

 

Jesus had to Leave for the "Comforter to Come".  Who did he give it to......"The Church", FOREVER!  It appears from John, that they (Jesus and the Comforter) can't be in the same place @ once.

 

There is absolutely NO WAY the Comforter/RESTRAINER LEAVES THE CHURCH......HE'S THE EMBODIMENT OF IT!!!!!!

 

 

Is that short enough?

 

 

 

Enoch, yes I agree you have quoted those verses many times.  I really have read those verses you quote many times. You say that verses 1-3 are the overview, the wording of the "overview" contradicts your interpretation of verses 3 to 9. Until you give your rendering of 2 Thessalonians 2: 1-3 we cannot go further with this discussion. I fail to understand how your view of a chapter contradicts the overview of that same chapter. Please explain your view of verses 1 to 3.

 

 

 

 

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Absolutely unbelievable, it doesn't contradict it.....it DETAILS IT!!

 

"My Interpretation" ??  It's staring you right in the face for cryin out loud

 

You honestly don't see it.....Honestly?

 

Start Reading 2 passages before...........  "And then that Wicked should be revealed......."

 

The "And then" is a clue that there is some preceding event that qualifies what comes after the "And then".

 

What part of that don't you understand?

[ARGOSY]

 

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Absolutely unbelievable, it doesn't contradict it.....it DETAILS IT!!

 

"My Interpretation" ??  It's staring you right in the face for cryin out loud

 

You honestly don't see it.....Honestly?

 

Start Reading 2 passages before...........  "And then that Wicked should be revealed......."

 

The "And then" is a clue that there is some preceding event that qualifies what comes after the "And then".

 

What part of that don't you understand?

 

 

I don't understand how you can have our gathering before the antichrist is revealed, and also after the antichrist is revealed. Your view of the rapture and the restrainer being removed AND THEN the antichrist is revealed  contradicts verses 1-3 which says we will not be gathered UNTIL the antichrist is revealed:. Your view is therefore incorrect because it contradicts the bible:

 

 

2 Thessalonians 2: 1-3 Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters,2 not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us—whether by a prophecy or by word of mouth or by letter—asserting that the day of the Lord has already come. 3 Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed

 

But Enoch, we have both stated our cases numerous times. I feel you are avoiding my question  about the day of our gathering that "will not come UNTIL" the "man of lawlessness is revealed". Let's just agree to disagree on this.