The rapture theory: True or false?

[EnochBethany]

"these would be of null effect if the Rapture was not Pre-Trib"

 

I agree that imminency does strongly support pre-trib.  But actually it is possible to believe in imminency (Christ could return at any time) and not be pre-trib.

For example, if one were a preterist and believed that the tribulation is rather figurative and happened in AD first century, then one could expect Christ's return now.

 

And then there is the "obtuse-post tribber" theory that while Christ's return for the Church is imminent and while it is post trib, I could have been so obtuse as not to realize how the trib has just passed -- I have gone thru the Trib & not realized it!  (Like the Trib began with the election of a certain president 7 years ago!)

Edited February 26, 2014 by EnochBethany

[EnochBethany]

what's with all the Enoch's lately????

All the Enoch's.

Well, you know that it is appointed to man once to die.  And Enoch hasn't died yet.  So perhaps he has to come back to die.  Who know who might be posting here!

[Trumpet cry]

Actually the writer/teacher/whoever it is, makes some very valid, biblically backed points regarding the false manmade doctrine of a rapture or multiple raptures occurring before the second coming of Jesus Christ. What about Matthew 13:24-30 for instance? How do you deny the fact that Jesus taught that the wheat and tares were to "grow together until the harvest"? My problem with believing in the rapture theories is in wrapping my mind around the concept of a God who would give His conditions for eternal life only to change or annul them by giving a knowing, unrepentant sinner a second (or third, or more) chance to accept those conditions once the time allowed has passed. Plus the fact that there is no biblical basis for such belief. The writer brings out other valid, biblical truth, but seems to wander off track in other areas. This, however cannot change what is true from God's Word.

[EnochBethany]

 

 

God the Father is the only one who knows when the His Son/Bridegroom will come for His Bride (Rapture)  Matt 24:26

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

Yes indeed; only God knows, though we are to expect Him all the time at any time per James 5.  But Mat 24 has no Rapture & not Church.  No one in Mat 24 is caught up for a meeting in the air with the Lord Jesus. (The Rapture is the great CatchUp -- no mustard allowed).  But you make a good point on not knowing.  I tired in vain over & over with a Camping date-setter (May 21, 2011; then Oct 21, 2011) to impress on him that Mark 13 twice says, "You do not know when."

 

Of course not knowing when the Second Coming is to take place does not mean that we may not decide the most probable ordering of the events.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes indeed; only God knows, though we are to expect Him all the time at any time per James 5.

 

It's The Doctrine of Imminence and is here also.... (Phil 3:20; Titus 2:13; Heb 9:28; 1 Thess 1:10; 4:18, 5:6, Rev 22:20)

 

Curiously though.....these would be of null effect if the Rapture was not Pre-Trib because; if it's any other time...... knowing (Daniel/Abomination of Desolation) anyone with Scriptural Knowledge could pretty Much set there Watch.

 

This requires much more study and prayer.  Admittedly, I'm having problems understanding it 

 

study & prayer, yes; we must not forget to pray, discuss the text w/ the Lord, seek illumination

[Enoch2021]

Actually the writer/teacher/whoever it is, makes some very valid, biblically backed points regarding the false manmade doctrine of a rapture or multiple raptures occurring before the second coming of Jesus Christ. What about Matthew 13:24-30 for instance? How do you deny the fact that Jesus taught that the wheat and tares were to "grow together until the harvest"? My problem with believing in the rapture theories is in wrapping my mind around the concept of a God who would give His conditions for eternal life only to change or annul them by giving a knowing, unrepentant sinner a second (or third, or more) chance to accept those conditions once the time allowed has passed. Plus the fact that there is no biblical basis for such belief. The writer brings out other valid, biblical truth, but seems to wander off track in other areas. This, however cannot change what is true from God's Word.

 

 

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Actually the writer/teacher/whoever it is, makes some very valid, biblically backed points regarding the false manmade doctrine of a rapture

 

Who are you referring to?

 

Does this look man-made to you....

 

(1 Thessalonians 4:17) "Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."

 

 

How do you deny the fact that Jesus taught that the wheat and tares were to "grow together until the harvest"?

 

Nobody here does. We're concerned with the "Harvest" Specifically

 

 

My problem with believing in the rapture theories is in wrapping my mind around the concept of a God who would give His conditions for eternal life only to change or annul them by giving a knowing, unrepentant sinner a second (or third, or more) chance to accept those conditions once the time allowed has passed. 

 

Only one "theory" is right.  You're "muddying the waters" here with multiple Raptures...it's nearly Non-sequitur.

 

 

Plus the fact that there is no biblical basis for such belief.

 

Except For:  The Jewish Wedding Type, 1 Thessalonians 4:17, Isaiah 26:20-21, Zephaniah 2:3, Psalms 27:5, 1 Thessalonians 5:9, Revelation 3:10)

 

and other TYPES:

 

Enoch and The Food of Noah.

 

Isaac's absence after his offer offering..... curiously, he's edited out of Scripture until 2 chapters later when he's United with His Bride.  (Check This)

 

Where was Ruth (Gentile Bride) during the Threshing Floor Scene?

 

Daniel's absence from the Fiery Furnace.

 

 

and these:

 

Last Point:  Revelation.....

 

The Seven Churches (The Seven Lampstands):  Identifies the Church Rev 1:20

 

They are on the Earth in Chapter 1.  They are in Heaven when John Arrives Chapter 4:5

 

One Church Promised not to go into the Great Tribulation.

 

The 24 Elders

 

-  Identified as the Redeemed (Rev 5: 9,10)

-  only three are Identified as Kings and Priests (Melchizedek, Jesus, and the Redeemed......US )

- They worship the Lamb before he receives the Scroll

- Tribulation begins when the Scroll is Unsealed

[kingdomwitness]

How were Paul, Philip and John raptured when according to history, Paul and Philip died as matyrs and John died a natural death?

[Enoch2021]

How were Paul, Philip and John raptured when according to history, Paul and Philip died as matyrs and John died a natural death?

 

That's True but, these can still be "classified" as Raptures....

 

 

Paul:  (2 Corinthians 12:2) "I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven."

 

Philip (Acts 8:39) "And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing."

 

John: (Revelation 4:1) "After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter."

[kingdomwitness]

But these were not made immortal as the bible states that mortality should put on immortality and imperfection should be made perfection (1 Corinthians 15:50-54). They still died as mortal men.

[Enoch2021]

But these were not made immortal as the bible states that mortality should put on immortality and imperfection should be made perfection (1 Corinthians 15:50-54). They still died as mortal men.

 

As I Said...... "That's True but, these can still be "classified" as Raptures"

[kingdomwitness]

Ok!