douggg Posted March 18, 2014 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 40 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,143 Content Per Day: 0.47 Reputation: 220 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/18/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted March 18, 2014 (edited) While there have been a multitude of antichrists, them exhibiting the spirit of Antichrist, there is only one "the" Antichrist. Them John was speaking to already had heard that Antichrist (singular) shall come, a single person. In contrast to what they had already heard about, John contrasted that there were are many antichrists (as opposed to the one person) who exhibited the spirit of Antichrist, who shall come. 1John 2:18 - Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. The litte horn, the prince who shall come, the man of sin, the beast are all code names for the Antichrist, just as Jesus is the Prince of peace, the righteous branch, the suffering servant. Hey Douggg, thanks for sharing your thoughts. It is very common in scripture for singular context to sometimes refer to a body of people. This is especially true for the church, which is referred to as the "body" the "bride" the "lady", etc. In the book of Daniel a single statue is used to represent several nations. I don't believe there is a contrast in those scriptures that refers to many antichrists and one antichrist, I believe John is saying "You heard that antichrist was supposed to come, I'm telling you he's here now!" In Revelation, especially, the language is spiritual and figurative. A little horn can refer to many people, just as, again, back in Daniel, horns on a beast are used to refer to nations. The Antichrist is one person, the "another" that Jesus told Nicodemus that they the Jews would unfortunately temporarily embrace as "the" messiah. "the" messiah, in context of its true meaning means the special King of Israel, son of David, anointed that God promised to send to lead Israel and the world into what we would call the messianic age of peace and harmony. The Anti-messiah, or Antichrist, is the person who the Jews will embrace as their king instead of Jesus, who they rejected, as Jesus told Nicodemus they would. __________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Why would you think the little horn is anything but one person? The Antichrist goes through 4 stages of his career (for lack of a better word). His rise, then his fall. 1. the little horn politician of Daniel 7 and 8 2. the prince who shall come, illicit perceived King of Israel, son of David, anointed (messiah) of Daniel 9. 3. the revealed man of sin, son of perdition, of 2Thessalonians2 4. the antichrist-beast of Revelation. What if he is not just one person? This is just an idea and something I think is possible. What if he's of many people. Like say the Pope for example. What if he is many Popes? There is the "spirit of antichrist" which manifests in multiple people/antichrists and religious organisations over the centuries. But there is also one specific man who will rule for 3.5 years and be the ultimate manifestation of the "spirit of antichrist". The word "antichrist" is a good term to describe him, maybe the term "false christ" or "man of sin" or "abomination" would describe him better? I'm not too hung up on terminology when there are good descriptions of this man in Daniel 11, 2 Thessalonians 2 and Revelation 13. Daniel 7 also describes him as the "little horn". An alternate term for the Antichrist would be the Anti-messiah. 1. Anti a. instead of, in lieu of b. against 2. messiah a. the special promised King of Israel, descended from David, anointed, to lead Israel and the world into the time of restoration, peace and harmony False messiah, or False christ would not be a good alternative to the Antichrist because "False" do not convey the same meaning as the prefix "Anti". man of sin, son of perdition is a term found in 2thessalonians2 - but it is not a good overall alternative to the Antichrist, because the code names for the Antichrist are pertinent to the different stages to his career. Those 4 stages in progressive order are: Antichrist 1. little horn politician 2. prince who shall come, illicit perceived King of Israel, descended from David 3. man of sin - son of perdition 4. beast Edited March 18, 2014 by douggg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwikphilly Posted March 18, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 96 Topic Count: 307 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 18,136 Content Per Day: 4.63 Reputation: 27,816 Days Won: 327 Joined: 08/03/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted March 18, 2014 Blessings niki... There have been many anti-christs from ancient times until now & there probably will be many more but "THE anti-christ",the beast that will come from the sea?Who knows if he is even upon the earth yet,I do not know........he may be here already or maybe not for a long time to come?But when that time comes for his presence to be known I sure do hope every Christian recognizes him! Praise & Glory to God,Bless & give sight to Your children Lord,keep us under Your Wings,in Jesus Name! With love-in Christ,Kwik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARGOSY Posted March 18, 2014 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,695 Content Per Day: 0.45 Reputation: 583 Days Won: 2 Joined: 01/03/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/11/1968 Share Posted March 18, 2014 While there have been a multitude of antichrists, them exhibiting the spirit of Antichrist, there is only one "the" Antichrist. Them John was speaking to already had heard that Antichrist (singular) shall come, a single person. In contrast to what they had already heard about, John contrasted that there were are many antichrists (as opposed to the one person) who exhibited the spirit of Antichrist, who shall come. 1John 2:18 - Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. The litte horn, the prince who shall come, the man of sin, the beast are all code names for the Antichrist, just as Jesus is the Prince of peace, the righteous branch, the suffering servant.Hey Douggg, thanks for sharing your thoughts. It is very common in scripture for singular context to sometimes refer to a body of people. This is especially true for the church, which is referred to as the "body" the "bride" the "lady", etc. In the book of Daniel a single statue is used to represent several nations. I don't believe there is a contrast in those scriptures that refers to many antichrists and one antichrist, I believe John is saying "You heard that antichrist was supposed to come, I'm telling you he's here now!" In Revelation, especially, the language is spiritual and figurative. A little horn can refer to many people, just as, again, back in Daniel, horns on a beast are used to refer to nations. The Antichrist is one person, the "another" that Jesus told Nicodemus that they the Jews would unfortunately temporarily embrace as "the" messiah. "the" messiah, in context of its true meaning means the special King of Israel, son of David, anointed that God promised to send to lead Israel and the world into what we would call the messianic age of peace and harmony. The Anti-messiah, or Antichrist, is the person who the Jews will embrace as their king instead of Jesus, who they rejected, as Jesus told Nicodemus they would. __________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Why would you think the little horn is anything but one person? The Antichrist goes through 4 stages of his career (for lack of a better word). His rise, then his fall. 1. the little horn politician of Daniel 7 and 82. the prince who shall come, illicit perceived King of Israel, son of David, anointed (messiah) of Daniel 9.3. the revealed man of sin, son of perdition, of 2Thessalonians24. the antichrist-beast of Revelation. What if he is not just one person? This is just an idea and something I think is possible. What if he's of many people. Like say the Pope for example. What if he is many Popes?There is the "spirit of antichrist" which manifests in multiple people/antichrists and religious organisations over the centuries. But there is also one specific man who will rule for 3.5 years and be the ultimate manifestation of the "spirit of antichrist". The word "antichrist" is a good term to describe him, maybe the term "false christ" or "man of sin" or "abomination" would describe him better? I'm not too hung up on terminology when there are good descriptions of this man in Daniel 11, 2 Thessalonians 2 and Revelation 13. Daniel 7 also describes him as the "little horn".An alternate term for the Antichrist would be the Anti-messiah. 1. Anti a. instead of, in lieu of b. against2. messiah a. the special promised King of Israel, descended from David, anointed, to lead Israel and the world into the time of restoration, peace and harmony False messiah, or False christ would not be a good alternative to the Antichrist because "False" do not convey the same meaning as the prefix "Anti". man of sin, son of perdition is a term found in 2thessalonians2 - but it is not a good overall alternative to the Antichrist, because the code names for the Antichrist are pertinent to the different stages to his career. Those 4 stages in progressive order are: Antichrist1. little horn politician2. prince who shall come, illicit perceived King of Israel, descended from David3. man of sin - son of perdition4. beastMakes sense. Yes many biblical terms describe him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARose88 Posted March 19, 2014 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 20 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/04/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted March 19, 2014 While there have been a multitude of antichrists, them exhibiting the spirit of Antichrist, there is only one "the" Antichrist. Them John was speaking to already had heard that Antichrist (singular) shall come, a single person. In contrast to what they had already heard about, John contrasted that there were are many antichrists (as opposed to the one person) who exhibited the spirit of Antichrist, who shall come. 1John 2:18 - Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. The litte horn, the prince who shall come, the man of sin, the beast are all code names for the Antichrist, just as Jesus is the Prince of peace, the righteous branch, the suffering servant. Hey Douggg, thanks for sharing your thoughts. It is very common in scripture for singular context to sometimes refer to a body of people. This is especially true for the church, which is referred to as the "body" the "bride" the "lady", etc. In the book of Daniel a single statue is used to represent several nations. I don't believe there is a contrast in those scriptures that refers to many antichrists and one antichrist, I believe John is saying "You heard that antichrist was supposed to come, I'm telling you he's here now!" In Revelation, especially, the language is spiritual and figurative. A little horn can refer to many people, just as, again, back in Daniel, horns on a beast are used to refer to nations. Hi Arose, the comparison is to the one with many. 18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. 19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us. Actually John is talking about them who departed Christianity. Likening them to the Antichrist. As they we exhibiting the spirit of Antichrist. The Antichrist is one person, the "another" that Jesus told Nicodemus that they the Jews would unfortunately temporarily embrace as "the" messiah. "the" messiah, in context of its true meaning means the special King of Israel, son of David, anointed that God promised to send to lead Israel and the world into what we would call the messianic age of peace and harmony. The Anti-messiah, or Antichrist, is the person who the Jews will embrace as their king instead of Jesus, who they rejected, as Jesus told Nicodemus they would. __________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Why would you think the little horn is anything but one person? The Antichrist goes through 4 stages of his career (for lack of a better word). His rise, then his fall. 1. the little horn politician of Daniel 7 and 8 2. the prince who shall come, illicit perceived King of Israel, son of David, anointed (messiah) of Daniel 9. 3. the revealed man of sin, son of perdition, of 2Thessalonians2 4. the antichrist-beast of Revelation. Hi Doug, sorry it took me so long to get back to this! I don't believe the antichrist is just one person because I don't find solid scriptural evidence for the idea. I believe scripture does give us a clear indication as to who/what the antichrist is: "Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son." 1 John 2:22. What is antichrist? Anything that opposes Christ, it is anti-Christ. Concerning the little horns in Daniel 7 & 8, why would we jump ahead thousands of years and suppose that that little horn is someone yet to come, when all of the beasts and horns mentioned represented nations that would be in authority, chronologically, following Babylon's rule (Medes and Persians, Greeks, Romans, then Christ's eternal kingdom which was established at the cross)? Yes, all of those nations were a part of the anti-God system which, after Christ's coming, became the anti-Christ system, but no single facet of them is exclusively "the" anti-Christ. The Daniel 9 prophecy (24-27) does not mention an antichrist. The prophecy is about the first coming of Christ (it gives us a precise timeline for His coming), and the ultimate destruction of Jerusalem, which happened in 70 AD. It is not indicated here that "Messiah the Prince" is referring to anyone but the Messiah and Prince, Jesus Christ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
douggg Posted March 20, 2014 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 40 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,143 Content Per Day: 0.47 Reputation: 220 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/18/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted March 20, 2014 (edited) While there have been a multitude of antichrists, them exhibiting the spirit of Antichrist, there is only one "the" Antichrist. Them John was speaking to already had heard that Antichrist (singular) shall come, a single person. In contrast to what they had already heard about, John contrasted that there were are many antichrists (as opposed to the one person) who exhibited the spirit of Antichrist, who shall come. 1John 2:18 - Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. The litte horn, the prince who shall come, the man of sin, the beast are all code names for the Antichrist, just as Jesus is the Prince of peace, the righteous branch, the suffering servant. Hey Douggg, thanks for sharing your thoughts. It is very common in scripture for singular context to sometimes refer to a body of people. This is especially true for the church, which is referred to as the "body" the "bride" the "lady", etc. In the book of Daniel a single statue is used to represent several nations. I don't believe there is a contrast in those scriptures that refers to many antichrists and one antichrist, I believe John is saying "You heard that antichrist was supposed to come, I'm telling you he's here now!" In Revelation, especially, the language is spiritual and figurative. A little horn can refer to many people, just as, again, back in Daniel, horns on a beast are used to refer to nations. Hi Arose, the comparison is to the one with many. 18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. 19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us. Actually John is talking about them who departed Christianity. Likening them to the Antichrist. As they we exhibiting the spirit of Antichrist. The Antichrist is one person, the "another" that Jesus told Nicodemus that they the Jews would unfortunately temporarily embrace as "the" messiah. "the" messiah, in context of its true meaning means the special King of Israel, son of David, anointed that God promised to send to lead Israel and the world into what we would call the messianic age of peace and harmony. The Anti-messiah, or Antichrist, is the person who the Jews will embrace as their king instead of Jesus, who they rejected, as Jesus told Nicodemus they would. __________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Why would you think the little horn is anything but one person? The Antichrist goes through 4 stages of his career (for lack of a better word). His rise, then his fall. 1. the little horn politician of Daniel 7 and 8 2. the prince who shall come, illicit perceived King of Israel, son of David, anointed (messiah) of Daniel 9. 3. the revealed man of sin, son of perdition, of 2Thessalonians2 4. the antichrist-beast of Revelation. Hi Doug, sorry it took me so long to get back to this! I don't believe the antichrist is just one person because I don't find solid scriptural evidence for the idea. I believe scripture does give us a clear indication as to who/what the antichrist is: "Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son." 1 John 2:22. What is antichrist? Anything that opposes Christ, it is anti-Christ. Concerning the little horns in Daniel 7 & 8, why would we jump ahead thousands of years and suppose that that little horn is someone yet to come, when all of the beasts and horns mentioned represented nations that would be in authority, chronologically, following Babylon's rule (Medes and Persians, Greeks, Romans, then Christ's eternal kingdom which was established at the cross)? Yes, all of those nations were a part of the anti-God system which, after Christ's coming, became the anti-Christ system, but no single facet of them is exclusively "the" anti-Christ. The Daniel 9 prophecy (24-27) does not mention an antichrist. The prophecy is about the first coming of Christ (it gives us a precise timeline for His coming), and the ultimate destruction of Jerusalem, which happened in 70 AD. It is not indicated here that "Messiah the Prince" is referring to anyone but the Messiah and Prince, Jesus Christ. Hi Arose88, to understand that there is only one Antichrist is to understand what the world christ meant as being Greek for them who spoke it at the time before the cross. It meant the special promised King of Israel, son of David anointed that God would send them to lead Israel and the World into the messianic age when the Kingdom of God would overtake all of the kingdoms of this world. Jesus said of that generation of Jerusalem that the kingdom of God was taken from them, and would be given to a future generation. There is only one "the" messiah, King of Israel, Son of David. There are not a multitude of them. In 1John2:18, it is written as they had heard Antichrist shall come. It is a singluar person. Because there were persons who were part of the early Christian groups that fellowshipped with each of other, but fell away because they did not believe that Jesus was God come in the flesh and began denying that Jesus was even the messiah - John likened them to the Antichrist, calling them antichrists. In similitude, when Jesus said to Peter, get thee from behind me Satan, Jesus was not saying that Peter was Satan, but that Peter was saying something that would have been in the spirit of Satan because Peter expressed that Jesus should not be put to death. Jesus likened Peter to Satan. Satan at the time did not even realize that Jesus's death on the cross would free men from the power of sin - because it was kept a secret from understanding until after the resurrection. When man became free from the power of sin, and the guilt, that meant God could then justly prosecute Satan to ultimately be destroyed for sin - without destroying all of mankind for our being guilty of sin as well. Had Satan understood God's secret plan of saving mankind aforehand, he would have never tried to get Jesus crucified. 1Corinthians2: 7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: 8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. Satan in fact in the temptation in the wilderness was attempting to get Jesus to kill himself by jumping of the high place. When that didn't work he sought to get Jesus put to death by working through the Pharisees and Sadducess, and Judas. Satan, not realizing he was actually facilitating the prosecution of his own future demise, thought by killing Jesus, he was thwarting bringing the Kingdom of God being established in this world would end his own kingdom and dominion over the nations. While, for a time, the Kingdom of God has been delayed from being the rule of the earth, until Jesus returns and the kingdoms of this world become the kingdoms of God and his Christ (Revelation 11:15), Satan has been judged, and because mankind (them who are saved) no longer carries the guilt of sin, God can carry through with his destruction of Satan, the lake of fire - while we by mercy and grace of the gospel are spared from it. Back to the point. Jesus was likening Peter to Satan. Not that Peter was Satan or indwelt temporarily by Satan. Likewise, when John calls them who were leaving and opposing Christianity, as "antichrists", he was not saying they were "the" Antichrist. He was likening them to the Antichrist, because fundamentally he will oppose Jesus. ________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ "Concerning the little horns in Daniel 7 & 8, why would we jump ahead thousands of years and suppose that that little horn is someone yet to come, when all of the beasts and horns mentioned represented nations that would be in authority, chronologically, following Babylon's rule (Medes and Persians, Greeks, Romans, then Christ's eternal kingdom which was established at the cross)? Yes, all of those nations were a part of the anti-God system which, after Christ's coming, became the anti-Christ system, but no single facet of them is exclusively "the" anti-Christ. The Daniel 9 prophecy (24-27) does not mention an antichrist. The prophecy is about the first coming of Christ (it gives us a precise timeline for His coming), and the ultimate destruction of Jerusalem, which happened in 70 AD. It is not indicated here that "Messiah the Prince" is referring to anyone but the Messiah and Prince, Jesus Christ." Daniel 7 and 8, the little horn is end times because the little horn's destruction in the text of those chapters are when Jesus returns. Daniel 9, the 70 weeks are not completed until the Most Holy is anointed. It is talking about Jesus return as KIng of kings and Lord of lords, to be embraced by Jerusalem as King of Israel, son of David, anointed and Savior from their sins. The confirming of the covenant "for" seven years, then stopping the sacrifices and oblation in the middle of the week, is by the Prince who shall come, not Jesus. The "for 7 years" are actually in the bible. In Deuteronomy 31:10-11, Moses made a law that at the end of every seven years, they were to do a ceremony to read his command to the Israelites to go in possess the land that God had promised would be theirs forever. It is confirming that promise that God made in the Mt. Sinai covenant. The "for seven years" ceremony has been suspended for at least 2000 years, because it must take place on the temple mount, which the Jews have not been in control of. The Antichrist as the prince who shall come (from Europe and the People who destroyed the temple in 70 Ad) arrives right after Gog/Magog and will be perceived by the Jews to be their long awaited messiah. In that role, the Antichrist will oversee the ceremonial reading, resetting the 7 years interval - thus he confirms (the Mt. Sinai) covenant for the seven years. At the same time, it is likely that he will be anointed with the special mixture of oil like that in old testament times all kings of Israel were anointed with as part of the swearing in ceremony, by the false prophet. Edited March 20, 2014 by douggg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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