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Enoch2021

Proof of GOD, (without attacking Old Earth or evolution)

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This Question/Subject was asked on a different Thread and I felt was the Quintessential Question and a Great Topic for the Forum's Namesake.

 

 

There are only 2 choices as to HOW we are here: Random Chance "nature" or Intelligent Design "GOD"

 

If you ascribe sentience and intelligence to the Universe and "nature" is your choice, then you have three minor hurdles to negotiate; namely,  Abiogenesis, the 1st/2nd Laws of Thermodynamics(1LOT/2LOT) "Pillars of Science", and Information.  Allow me to explain....

 

1.)  Abiogenesis, the cornerstone/foundation of LIFE, is IMPOSSIBLE by any "natural" process... denoted via 1LOT/2LOT, the Laws of Chemistry/Biochemistry, Laws of Information and Specific Complexity.  SEE: Law of Biogenesis

 

2.) 1st Law of Thermodynamics (1LOT "Pillar of Science"): The total amount of mass-energy in the universe is constant.
     2nd Law of Thermodynamics (2LOT "Pillar of Science"): The amount of energy available for work is running out,  and the Universe is moving inexorably to "Maximum Entropy" or Heat Death.

 

If the total amount of mass-energy is constant, and the amount of usable energy is decreasing, then the universe cannot have existed forever, otherwise it would already have exhausted all usable energy—the ‘heat death’ of the universe.

 

You have only three options:

 

1. The Universe has always existed (in Violation of the Second Law of Thermodynamics);
2. The Universe created itself (in Violation of the First Law of Thermodynamics); or
3. The Universe was Created by GOD.

 

 

3.)  Information (DNA):  Since Matter (atoms/molecules) carry no Information intrinsically, You have to be able to explain "How Stupid Atoms Wrote Their Own Software?"

So this isn't a case where we "don't have the answers yet" we do and in "natures" case these barriers are Laughingly Insurmountable.

 

DNA is a 4-bit self replicating, error correcting/modifying Encrypted Code.  It's "Specific Complexity" is unrivaled in the known Universe.....

“DNA is like a computer program but far, far more advanced than any software ever created.”
Bill Gates, The Road Ahead

 

‘We now know that the secret of life lies not with the chemical ingredients as such, but with the logical structure and organisational arrangement of the molecules. … Like a supercomputer, life is an information processing system. … It is the software of the living cell that is the real mystery, not the hardware.’ But where did it come from?  ‘How did stupid atoms spontaneously write their own software? … Nobody knows … ’.
Davies, P., Life force, New Scientist 163(2204):27–30, 18 September 1999.

 

CODE only comes from Intelligence.  Also, Information is Mass-less (atoms/molecules carry no information intrinsically)....
That also means that Information/Software (The Real You) being Mass-less is also TIMELESS or Eternal. :o   Now that's Profound!!

 

"The meaning of the message will not be found in the physics and chemistry of the paper and ink" -Roger Sperry (neurobiologist and Nobel laureate)
Saying well, "Atoms/Molecules created Life or the Information/Software"... would be Tantamount to ascribing authorship of War and Peace to Ink Molecules!

 

 

4.)  Well taking our thesis with 1LOT....the GOD who created 1LOT must be outside of Time and not bound by it's Laws: Holy Scripture confirms this....

 

(Isaiah 57:15) "For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy;..."
Eternity is not someplace with Lots of Time....it's the Absence of Time.

 

(Isaiah 46:10) "Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:"

 

(2 Peter 3:8) "But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day."

This IMHO, is a Rhetorical Device (Metaphors, Similes, Idioms, Types, Allegories) of which there are over 200 styles in the Holy Bible.  I hear people quote the first half of this verse and arrive @ a Literal conclusion (a Day = a Thousand Years).  Taking the Whole Verse...this clearly is conveying HIS TIMELESSNESS.

 

So if HE is outside of time and able to declare "End from the Beginning", can we test this Empirically?.... Yes; PROPHECY.  And ALL must be 100% accurate without failure.  By a conservative count there are over 1800 Specific Prophecies in the Holy Bible.  85% of them have come to pass with 100% accuracy without Failure.  The last 15% or so are yet future....Revelation.  There are Prophecies throughout Scripture but the mother-load IMHO are in the Book Of Daniel.  Among 100's detailing (Babylon, Medo-Persia: Cyrus The Great, Greece: Alexander the Great and his 4 Generals, and Romans) He details approx 300 years of secular history beforehand between the Ptolemaic and Seleucid Empires. The most Breath Taking of all Prophecies IMHO Daniel 9:25: The Angel Gabriel foretells...to the the EXACT DAY, 500 years beforehand, of Christ's Triumphal Entry into Jerusalem.

 

 

If you're on the Fence....It's TIME to face this Head On!!  For you don't know when you'll take your Last Breath. 

 

HE'S Calling You!!!  :thumbsup:

 

For even the very hairs on your head are all numbered!!!!  Do you think we are talking here by Random Chance?? :huh:

 

Humble Yourself Before HIM and HE will LIFT YOU UP!!  It's ABSOLUTELY FREE!!  PAID IN FULL!!

 

 


(John 14:6) "Jesus saith unto him,  I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."

 

(Revelation 21:6) "And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely."

 

 

AMEN, PRAISE THE LORD!!!!!

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Great post. Just one thing I'd disagree with is that information is timeless because it's massless. Masslessness doesn't imply timelessness.

Time for instance is massless, but it would be weird to say that time is timeless.

 

Personally I don't think information is timeless though it's certainly immaterial (not part of matter/energy). Information seems to be bound to time in that a message starts existing at a certain point in time, when a transmission begins, and ceases existing when a transmission ends. While the information may convey a timeless idea, the information itself, seems to be bound to time.

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Great post. Just one thing I'd disagree with is that information is timeless because it's massless. Masslessness doesn't imply timelessness.

Time for instance is massless, but it would be weird to say that time is timeless.

 

Personally I don't think information is timeless though it's certainly immaterial (not part of matter/energy). Information seems to be bound to time in that a message starts existing at a certain point in time, when a transmission begins, and ceases existing when a transmission ends. While the information may convey a timeless idea, the information itself, seems to be bound to time.

 

 

 

Great post. Just one thing I'd disagree with is that information is timeless because it's massless. Masslessness doesn't imply timelessness.

Time for instance is massless, but it would be weird to say that time is timeless.

 

 

Thank You. 

 

Well there are 4 Knowable Dimensions (Length, Width, Breadth, Height) or 3 Spacial Dimensions and Time.

 

**Side Note** 7 Unknowable Dimensions that we can infer Indirectly.

 

**Side Note II**  They should have just asked Paul  :) ......(Ephesians 3:18) "May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;"

 

 

Just thinking out loud here....

 

This Time thing is a bit tricky  :)  I'm tracking with you....but, time can be measured....We can perceive/measure/calculate Time; but we can't measure/calculate Information in TOTO.

 

Time is a Property...that is to say, you can't have the other dimensions without TIME and Vice-Versa.

 

Would it be better to say that Information is Intangible (Maybe a better word or descriptor here); therefore, Timeless or Eternal ??

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Well said brother! Very well done!

 

Thank You

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Time is a Property...that is to say, you can't have the other dimensions without TIME and Vice-Versa.

 

Would it be better to say that Information is Intangible (Maybe a better word or descriptor here); therefore, Timeless or Eternal ??

 

it is my understanding when reading through string physics that if you get into the fifth dimension, time can fold where you can be in two places at the same time.......   or in a single place at two different times....    higher levels put you in so many that by the time you get to where God the Father exists you can be everywhere all at the same time.....     so basically there literally is no time.......   or to put in in another frame of mind there is only  "all" time.

 

interesting theory......    but it's interesting when the teachings of people like Steven Hawkins can actually explain why God is omni-everything.  

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Time is a Property...that is to say, you can't have the other dimensions without TIME and Vice-Versa.

 

Would it be better to say that Information is Intangible (Maybe a better word or descriptor here); therefore, Timeless or Eternal ??

 

it is my understanding when reading through string physics that if you get into the fifth dimension, time can fold where you can be in two places at the same time.......   or in a single place at two different times....    higher levels put you in so many that by the time you get to where God the Father exists you can be everywhere all at the same time.....     so basically there literally is no time.......   or to put in in another frame of mind there is only  "all" time.

 

interesting theory......    but it's interesting when the teachings of people like Steven Hawkins can actually explain why God is omni-everything.  

 

 

Wasn't there a Band back in the day called the "5th Dimension" LOL

 

There are some "theories" that are Interesting but most of it is absolute speculation.  Most people have enough problems with just basic reality  :)

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Time is a Property...that is to say, you can't have the other dimensions without TIME and Vice-Versa.

 

Would it be better to say that Information is Intangible (Maybe a better word or descriptor here); therefore, Timeless or Eternal ??

 

it is my understanding when reading through string physics that if you get into the fifth dimension, time can fold where you can be in two places at the same time.......   or in a single place at two different times....    higher levels put you in so many that by the time you get to where God the Father exists you can be everywhere all at the same time.....     so basically there literally is no time.......   or to put in in another frame of mind there is only  "all" time.

 

interesting theory......    but it's interesting when the teachings of people like Steven Hawkins can actually explain why God is omni-everything.  

 

 

Wasn't there a Band back in the day called the "5th Dimension" LOL

 

There are some "theories" that are Interesting but most of it is absolute speculation.  Most people have enough problems with just basic reality  :)

 

 

5th Dimension did songs about the Age of Aquarius.  listening to it right now....

 

I wouldn't call it absolute speculation, It's theoretical mathematics gone viral...    I have read that several of the people working on CERN were hoping to open a portal into a different dimension.....   don't know how that's working out.   Not sure they'd tell us if they did.          Probably rip a whole in space/time and some Antichrist come crawling out  LoL

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Context:  "(Ephesians 3:18) "May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;"

 

This refers to the vastness of the love of Christ (which passes knowledge), evidently eading to being filled to all the fullness of God.  If you want to know how to be "filled," read Ephesians 3:14-19, the only passage I know of that tells you how.

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Context:  "(Ephesians 3:18) "May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;"

 

This refers to the vastness of the love of Christ (which passes knowledge), evidently eading to being filled to all the fullness of God.  If you want to know how to be "filled," read Ephesians 3:14-19, the only passage I know of that tells you how.

 

 

I know the context, Thanks.  Kinda coincidental that's how they Exactly describe our reality in Physics.

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