Hashe Posted February 26, 2014 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 21 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 84 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 17 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/13/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted February 26, 2014 The other day in church I was listening to yet another altar call. The preacher was telling us that Jesus saves. If we have problems with loneliness then we should come to the front because Jesus saves us from our loneliness. If we have problems with anger that is destroying our families then come to the front because Jesus saves. If we have problems with addictions then come to the front because Jesus saves. As I was sitting there I started thinking about the concepts of Jesus and salvation. I had recently been studying the Christmas stories in the early chapters of Luke and Matthew. Jesus was born in interesting times. The Romans had control of the area and ruled through their patsy king Herod. Neither was particularly popular and the Jewish masses were hoping for a Messiah to come and save them from the situation. The religious experts taught that their scriptures prophesised for a Messiah to come and lead their people to world domination. With the uniqueness of the Jewish people and the religious stubbornness these teaches were known throughout the Roman world. There a number of people who rose up and claimed to this Messiah. In Acts 5:35-37 Gamaliel speaks of Theudas and Judas the Galilean rising up, gathering men yet ultimately coming to nothing. So when Jesus, the real Messiah came, many people didn’t get it. They were looking for a military leader to save them from their circumstances. What they got was a religious teacher who saved them from their sins. This made them so angry that the masses turned on Jesus and called from the Romans to kill him as a political agitator. As I thought about the altar call, I wondered about the message being given. The message was Jesus saves but I’m not sure it was really about Jesus saves us from our sins. It seemed to be,’ Jesus will save you from your circumstances’. I’m not saying that churches shouldn’t be helping people overcome difficult circumstances. Churches should be in the business of loving people! But what is the message about Jesus that churches really give? I reflected on a number of people I knew who had come and gone from different churches. What Jesus did they know? What Jesus did they want? Was he the saviour of their sins? Or did they rather want a saviour of their circumstances? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted February 26, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.76 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.96 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted February 26, 2014 That is a good point. Although it could be argued that the problems you mentioned in the first paragraph stem from a sin problem - or better yet, what is mentioned are bondages of sin, and Jesus did also come to set us free from the bondages of sin as well as the sin itself. However, I do see your point. Too many people look to Jesus for a better life when He's in the business of making you a better (righteous, holy) person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwikphilly Posted February 26, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 96 Topic Count: 306 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 18,130 Content Per Day: 4.64 Reputation: 27,805 Days Won: 327 Joined: 08/03/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted February 26, 2014 Blessings Hashe Welcome to Worthy & God Bless you.......I am not sure what you are asking but if you are asking specifically what are the "churches "teaching about Jesus(Savior from sin/circumstance) then that probably would give us many,many varying answers as it would depe4nd on the church,pastor,preacher,teacher,priest,minister etc,,,,,I would not able to answer that question What I would like to say is what the churches should be teaching about or Lord & Savior & that He is our EVERYTHING......not only does He reconcile us back to our Heavenly Father as we place all of our sin under His Blood & through our Faith in Him we are Saved by Grace but He is also our deliverer that will help us through ANY circumstance.....Through Him He made that new & living way that He consecrated for us that we pass through the veil (His flesh)& enter into the Holy of Holy's & we stand before our Heavenly Father at the Throne of Grace.....we now have a personal & intimate relationship with Almighty God & He is our "Abba"....there is nothing that is too hard for God Almighty Jesus sits at the right Hand of our Father & is our Great Mediator....He prays for us continually ,He never leaves or forsakes ,He sends us His Holy Spirit to Comfort us,Counsel us,direct & guide us,,,,give us Wisdom & Understanding God works ALL things for the good of those that love Him,according to the purpose of their calling....Halleluliah! There is nothing Jesus will NOT do for us if we ask Him,He said so & as long is it is in the Will of God.......any request is given .............Praise & Glory to God............. LOL,I could spend hours just talking about the goodness of Jesus........What does He Save us from?Anything,Everything............we just have to get out of the way & receive by committing ourselves fully to Him without reservation & when we die to ourselves is when we live unto Him and we are Free indeed,in Christ! With love-in Christ,Kwik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Francis Drake Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 (edited) The other day in church I was listening to yet another altar call. The preacher was telling us that Jesus saves. If we have problems with loneliness then we should come to the front because Jesus saves us from our loneliness. If we have problems with anger that is destroying our families then come to the front because Jesus saves. If we have problems with addictions then come to the front because Jesus saves. As I was sitting there I started thinking about the concepts of Jesus and salvation. I had recently been studying the Christmas stories in the early chapters of Luke and Matthew. Jesus was born in interesting times. The Romans had control of the area and ruled through their patsy king Herod. Neither was particularly popular and the Jewish masses were hoping for a Messiah to come and save them from the situation. The religious experts taught that their scriptures prophesised for a Messiah to come and lead their people to world domination. With the uniqueness of the Jewish people and the religious stubbornness these teaches were known throughout the Roman world. There a number of people who rose up and claimed to this Messiah. In Acts 5:35-37 Gamaliel speaks of Theudas and Judas the Galilean rising up, gathering men yet ultimately coming to nothing. So when Jesus, the real Messiah came, many people didn’t get it. They were looking for a military leader to save them from their circumstances. What they got was a religious teacher who saved them from their sins. This made them so angry that the masses turned on Jesus and called from the Romans to kill him as a political agitator. As I thought about the altar call, I wondered about the message being given. The message was Jesus saves but I’m not sure it was really about Jesus saves us from our sins. It seemed to be,’ Jesus will save you from your circumstances’. I’m not saying that churches shouldn’t be helping people overcome difficult circumstances. Churches should be in the business of loving people! But what is the message about Jesus that churches really give? I reflected on a number of people I knew who had come and gone from different churches. What Jesus did they know? What Jesus did they want? Was he the saviour of their sins? Or did they rather want a saviour of their circumstances? Throughout Old Testament period, salvation meant deliverance from Philistine, famine, and plague etc. Salvation to the Jews then never meant "heaven when you are dead"! Therefore it is hardly surprising the Jews expected a Messiah who would deliver them from the Romans, as it was an entirely scriptural principle. Unfortunately without national repentance, the Jews were never going to get delivered. Instead, God would use the intransigence and pride of the Jewish leaders to bring salvation to the Gentiles. However, that "salvation" to the Gentiles was still meant to be of a similar nature to that which was illustrated in the OT. That's why both Jesus and the disciples who followed him did so with miracles and healings, not just words of man's wisdom that we get so of much today. Look at the message of Jesus from the beginning of his ministry. "Repent for the kingdom of heaven is near to you". That was certainly not about heaven when you are dead! All the way through Jesus's ministry he taught that the hidden kingdom of the heavens would break through onto those who sought it, right there and then, and not when they died. Matt6v33But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness and all these things will be added unto you. The things Jesus refers to in verse33 were about provision today, not when we are dead, ie. no different to the OT. Before anyone jumps down my throat, I am not denying the cross, or denying new birth, or eternal life. Edited February 26, 2014 by Francis Drake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DRS81 Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 The message was Jesus saves but I’m not sure it was really about Jesus saves us from our sins. It seemed to be,’ Jesus will save you from your circumstances’. Hi Hashe, you have made an excellent point. Always test the spirits to see if they are children of God. That preacher needs to add the word sin in his dialogue! Blessings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmyers Posted February 27, 2014 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 22 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 8 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/26/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted February 27, 2014 You make a good point. I think some preachers try to reach folks where they are with their altar calls. They may respond to the altar calls because the preacher mentioned their unique circumstances and as they grow they will discover that salvation is much bigger than their personal trials. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hashe Posted February 27, 2014 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 21 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 84 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 17 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/13/2014 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 27, 2014 The other day in church I was listening to yet another altar call. The preacher was telling us that Jesus saves. If we have problems with loneliness then we should come to the front because Jesus saves us from our loneliness. If we have problems with anger that is destroying our families then come to the front because Jesus saves. If we have problems with addictions then come to the front because Jesus saves. As I was sitting there I started thinking about the concepts of Jesus and salvation. I had recently been studying the Christmas stories in the early chapters of Luke and Matthew. Jesus was born in interesting times. The Romans had control of the area and ruled through their patsy king Herod. Neither was particularly popular and the Jewish masses were hoping for a Messiah to come and save them from the situation. The religious experts taught that their scriptures prophesised for a Messiah to come and lead their people to world domination. With the uniqueness of the Jewish people and the religious stubbornness these teaches were known throughout the Roman world. There a number of people who rose up and claimed to this Messiah. In Acts 5:35-37 Gamaliel speaks of Theudas and Judas the Galilean rising up, gathering men yet ultimately coming to nothing. So when Jesus, the real Messiah came, many people didn’t get it. They were looking for a military leader to save them from their circumstances. What they got was a religious teacher who saved them from their sins. This made them so angry that the masses turned on Jesus and called from the Romans to kill him as a political agitator. As I thought about the altar call, I wondered about the message being given. The message was Jesus saves but I’m not sure it was really about Jesus saves us from our sins. It seemed to be,’ Jesus will save you from your circumstances’. I’m not saying that churches shouldn’t be helping people overcome difficult circumstances. Churches should be in the business of loving people! But what is the message about Jesus that churches really give? I reflected on a number of people I knew who had come and gone from different churches. What Jesus did they know? What Jesus did they want? Was he the saviour of their sins? Or did they rather want a saviour of their circumstances? Throughout Old Testament period, salvation meant deliverance from Philistine, famine, and plague etc. Salvation to the Jews then never meant "heaven when you are dead"! Therefore it is hardly surprising the Jews expected a Messiah who would deliver them from the Romans, as it was an entirely scriptural principle. Unfortunately without national repentance, the Jews were never going to get delivered. Instead, God would use the intransigence and pride of the Jewish leaders to bring salvation to the Gentiles. However, that "salvation" to the Gentiles was still meant to be of a similar nature to that which was illustrated in the OT. That's why both Jesus and the disciples who followed him did so with miracles and healings, not just words of man's wisdom that we get so of much today. Look at the message of Jesus from the beginning of his ministry. "Repent for the kingdom of heaven is near to you". That was certainly not about heaven when you are dead! All the way through Jesus's ministry he taught that the hidden kingdom of the heavens would break through onto those who sought it, right there and then, and not when they died. Matt6v33But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness and all these things will be added unto you. The things Jesus refers to in verse33 were about provision today, not when we are dead, ie. no different to the OT. Before anyone jumps down my throat, I am not denying the cross, or denying new birth, or eternal life. You're right Jesus' message is about the kingdom of God. He saves us from our sins, so that we can enter the kingdom of God. This kingdom starts now. However, when we die, we get the fullness of the kingdom. In the kingdom, now, the problems of sin are lessen, and so some of our problems go, but they don't go fully until we get the fullness of the kingdom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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