Who are we to obey the law or grace, the old commandments or Christ

[johz77]

The word of God didn't profit our fathers, why, they never mixed it with faith. Same thing in our time, we do not believe, even when we see it. " seeing they will not see, hearing they will not hear,... So that they cannot be healed". No man is a guru in the bible, the best you can do is to trust the word of God to direct your life and do a good preservation. Jesus said For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Matt 5:18 now read this Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill verse 17, read again Matthew 3:15 >>

And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him. If we know the word fulfill then we understand that Jesus has fulfilled the law and prophets that's why all the laws are now passed away. Bcos we still don't understand the bible that's why we don't even know that it's been fulfilled already. He didn't come to abolish without fulfilling the old was what Jesus meant. You can never quote Jesus wrong. Read matt again, you will know that it's all being fulfilled.

[SandyU]

Jesus was given a choice to have a woman stoned under law of Moses, He chose to forgive her, and Jesus let all know that they were sinners too,I follow Jesus. Jesus is Lord. Jesus taught the old testament. But Jesus coming did change things, We have his grace and we need to show his grace to others,

[Adsy86]

 

Can we follow Moses and Christ together? Why do we look into the Old Testament for direction!

 

What exactly do you mean by "Old Testament"?

 

Psalms? Proverbs?

Isaiah?

 

They are a part of the "Old Testament" as well.

 

Would you not use the lives of Abraham, Joseph, Ruth, David, Samuel, Hezekiah, etc. for sermons and teachings?

 

And how could you ever understand the reason Jesus had to die on the cross for our redemption without looking into the Old Testament?

 

 

That has nothing to do with following the OT though and living it

[Qnts2]

Jesus was given a choice to have a woman stoned under law of Moses, He chose to forgive her, and Jesus let all know that they were sinners too,I follow Jesus. Jesus is Lord. Jesus taught the old testament. But Jesus coming did change things, We have his grace and we need to show his grace to others,

 

Actually, those who were going to stone the woman were violating the law.

 

In the case of adultery, the man and woman need to be caught in the act, witnessed. In this case, they said she was caught in the act. But both the man and the woman are to be stoned. In this case, they had the accused woman only as there is no mention of the man, so there is a question if the stoning was according to the law. Why was the man involved missing from the scene?   

 

While Jesus did let them know that all were sinners, the stoning was not following the law. Jesus followed the Mosaic law by stopping the stoning. We don't know what Jesus wrote on the ground.  

 

Lev 20:10 If there is a man who commits adultery with another man’s wife, one who commits adultery with his friend’s wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.

 

Now, just for a historical note: stoning was rare. A court of judges (Sanhedrin), which condemned someone to death, was considered a bloody court.   

[other one]

Jesus was given a choice to have a woman stoned under law of Moses, He chose to forgive her, and Jesus let all know that they were sinners too,I follow Jesus. Jesus is Lord. Jesus taught the old testament. But Jesus coming did change things, We have his grace and we need to show his grace to others,

there is a lot more to that story than Jesus forgiving the woman. the people bringing her there were not following the law. Each of those who brought her there without bringing the man were breaking the law.... thus Jesus's actions. She could not be condemned under the law by herself. Note that Jesus did not say that her sins were forgiven but that he did not condemn her.... he did tell her not to sin any more. a member named Keith had a very good write up of this that I can't find with this limited phone access. i'll try to remember to post it when we get back home

[Qnts2]

 

 

Can we follow Moses and Christ together? Why do we look into the Old Testament for direction!

 

What exactly do you mean by "Old Testament"?

 

Psalms? Proverbs?

Isaiah?

 

They are a part of the "Old Testament" as well.

 

Would you not use the lives of Abraham, Joseph, Ruth, David, Samuel, Hezekiah, etc. for sermons and teachings?

 

And how could you ever understand the reason Jesus had to die on the cross for our redemption without looking into the Old Testament?

 

 

That has nothing to do with following the OT though and living it

 

If scripture itself says that all scripture is good for teaching, admonition etc, how is it you are saying not to follow the 'OT'? Abraham lived by faith. He is in the OT. Christians are called 'spiritural' sons of Abraham. We are to live by faith, just like Abraham of the 'OT'.

 

2 Tim 3:16 All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;

 

To dismiss the OT, is to dismiss what is inspired and given by God. The Mosaic law is good, and holy, given by God to the children of Israel. It is perfect, not evil or bad. It was a gift given by God. There is no fault with the Mosaic law, or the OT. The issue wasn't the Mosaic law, it was fallen humans. The law is perfect, and a blessing. The curse was the failure of people. However, the OT is much more then the Mosaic law, and was given by God for teaching, and training.  

 

What you actually mean is we are not to follow the Mosaic law because we are not under the Mosaic covenant. But, it is incorrect to dismiss the entire 'OT'. That would be dismissing what God wrote, and says is good.    It is not an old and new. It is the bible, all one book and all for our benefit.  

[Adsy86]

 

 

 

Can we follow Moses and Christ together? Why do we look into the Old Testament for direction!

 

What exactly do you mean by "Old Testament"?

 

Psalms? Proverbs?

Isaiah?

 

They are a part of the "Old Testament" as well.

 

Would you not use the lives of Abraham, Joseph, Ruth, David, Samuel, Hezekiah, etc. for sermons and teachings?

 

And how could you ever understand the reason Jesus had to die on the cross for our redemption without looking into the Old Testament?

 

 

That has nothing to do with following the OT though and living it

 

If scripture itself says that all scripture is good for teaching, admonition etc, how is it you are saying not to follow the 'OT'? Abraham lived by faith. He is in the OT. Christians are called 'spiritural' sons of Abraham. We are to live by faith, just like Abraham of the 'OT'.

 

2 Tim 3:16 All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;

 

To dismiss the OT, is to dismiss what is inspired and given by God. The Mosaic law is good, and holy, given by God to the children of Israel. It is perfect, not evil or bad. It was a gift given by God. There is no fault with the Mosaic law, or the OT. The issue wasn't the Mosaic law, it was fallen humans. The law is perfect, and a blessing. The curse was the failure of people. However, the OT is much more then the Mosaic law, and was given by God for teaching, and training.  

 

What you actually mean is we are not to follow the Mosaic law because we are not under the Mosaic covenant. But, it is incorrect to dismiss the entire 'OT'. That would be dismissing what God wrote, and says is good.    It is not an old and new. It is the bible, all one book and all for our benefit.  

 

 

They're there as a reference and to focus it on Jesus (I know it's a longer explanation but this is the tl:dr version). It is pointless to try to live by the law cuz we'll never achieve it, if we could, Jesus would had never come in the first place. As great as the OT is, and I love reading it, it helps me grow closer to God but I don't live by it, it is not my covenant

Edited March 17, 2014 by Adsy86

[Littlelambseativy]

Very few have followed the law. There are so many and if one is broken all are broken and no salvation but bondage. Jesus came and with His death and resurrection - grace - freedom and forgiveness. If we sin we ask to be forgiven and God is righteous and gracious to forgive - eternal life through Jesus.

[Guest Butero]

Very few have followed the law. There are so many and if one is broken all are broken and no salvation but bondage. Jesus came and with His death and resurrection - grace - freedom and forgiveness. If we sin we ask to be forgiven and God is righteous and gracious to forgive - eternal life through Jesus.

God knew from the start that nobody was capable of absolute perfection, which is what is required to enter heaven.  That is why that under the law, God set up the Levitical priesthood, whereby animals had to die because of the sins of the people.  This was only a temporary system that would end with the cross.  As you said, now when we sin, rather than taking an animal to the priest to offer a sacrifice, we confess our sins to the Lord to receive forgiveness.  That one time offering for sin is sufficient to forgive as many sins as all the people in the world could ever commit. 

[Qnts2]

 

 

 

 

Can we follow Moses and Christ together? Why do we look into the Old Testament for direction!

 

What exactly do you mean by "Old Testament"?

 

Psalms? Proverbs?

Isaiah?

 

They are a part of the "Old Testament" as well.

 

Would you not use the lives of Abraham, Joseph, Ruth, David, Samuel, Hezekiah, etc. for sermons and teachings?

 

And how could you ever understand the reason Jesus had to die on the cross for our redemption without looking into the Old Testament?

 

 

That has nothing to do with following the OT though and living it

 

If scripture itself says that all scripture is good for teaching, admonition etc, how is it you are saying not to follow the 'OT'? Abraham lived by faith. He is in the OT. Christians are called 'spiritural' sons of Abraham. We are to live by faith, just like Abraham of the 'OT'.

 

2 Tim 3:16 All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;

 

To dismiss the OT, is to dismiss what is inspired and given by God. The Mosaic law is good, and holy, given by God to the children of Israel. It is perfect, not evil or bad. It was a gift given by God. There is no fault with the Mosaic law, or the OT. The issue wasn't the Mosaic law, it was fallen humans. The law is perfect, and a blessing. The curse was the failure of people. However, the OT is much more then the Mosaic law, and was given by God for teaching, and training.  

 

What you actually mean is we are not to follow the Mosaic law because we are not under the Mosaic covenant. But, it is incorrect to dismiss the entire 'OT'. That would be dismissing what God wrote, and says is good.    It is not an old and new. It is the bible, all one book and all for our benefit.  

 

 

They're there as a reference and to focus it on Jesus (I know it's a longer explanation but this is the tl:dr version). It is pointless to try to live by the law cuz we'll never achieve it, if we could, Jesus would had never come in the first place. As great as the OT is, and I love reading it, it helps me grow closer to God but I don't live by it, it is not my covenant

 

 

The entire OT pointsto Jesus, I agree. Including the law in more ways then just showing a need.

 

But, the Mosaic law is not the entire OT. Just about everything taught in the NT, is already contained in the OT. (The exceptions are the mysteries which are not clear in the OT)

 

Mysteries:

 

full inclusion of Gentiles. There are prophesies concerning the Messiah and the Gentiles in the OT, but it is not clear that Gentiles are full member of the covenant 

            

Jesus is God- there are indications in the OT which raise this possibility, but nothing which just plain states the Messiah would be God 

 

indwelling of the Holy Spirit- while the OT indicates that all would prophesy, which hints at this, the prophets of the OT did not have the permanently indwelling.